Industry News: Nikon officially announces the Z6 and Z7 full frame mirrorless cameras

Hesbehindyou

EOS 90D
Jun 6, 2011
145
2
Oooh, good replies to this thread - we've had the 'I might switch and if I do Canon will be in big trouble' and here we've got the 'this immature technology offers little advantage to me, why does it exist?':

I may be missing the point but still don't see the need to move to mirrorless myself

There's no need to move to mirrorless.

Plenty of people will find mirrorless cameras will have things that make like easier/better and, at present, plenty of people will find the EVF lag too high, the EVF resolution too low and the battery life to short. All these three will be sorted in time and may also be outweighed by the other features mirrorless allows.

You said you may be missing the point... You''re on a rumours forum so I'm assuming you're a bit of a tech or camera enthusiast that knows how to use Google i.e. you're already aware of the benefits that mirrorless can bring so....

The point you're missing is this isn't about you.

The point you're missing is that this is mainly about camera manufacturers being able to (eventually) lower costs while (eventually) offering a superior product. In the mean time the mirrorless offerings will have a mix of advantages and disadvantages that will suit some and not others.

It won't be long before the only real advantage of a DSLR is battery life - a totally valid reason for remaining with DSLR... or even SLR :)
 

yungfat

EOS 90D
Feb 16, 2013
130
50
I've never been that bothered about mirrorless; the only benefits that interested me were smaller size (but the lenses always seem large for FF) & I like the way on Olympus cameras you can see a long exposure developing on the screen as you take the shot.

Although nice looking the Nikon bodies don't look that small (wonder how it would compare to my 6D MKII) & lenses will still be the same size if you use the adaptor.

I may be missing the point but still don't see the need to move to mirrorless myself (apart from perhaps a Fuji XT series for portability)

Can’t agree more with you. I’m also thinking for mirrorless body like Fuji for my street photography, but will losing the advantage of full frame especially at night time.

I’m too not a mirrorless fans. The Z body is smaller but not lighter... it’s still 600g ++, just a bit lighter than 5DIV and not to mention the 6D body.

Really curious how many working pro really need a mirrorless or just those youtuber screaming on that...
 
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jedy

EOS 90D
Feb 14, 2014
153
96
Both cameras only have one card slot which, according to other threads I've seen is a dealbreaker. Also for videographers the lack of a flip screen seems to be an issue. Still, even if these two cameras don't seem any better than the Sony A7/A9 lineup, they might still sell in healthy numbers (at least the Z6). I expect serious photogs will wait to see what Canon's offerings will bring before making a purchase.
 

docsmith

EOS R
CR Pro
Sep 17, 2010
1,047
486
Can’t agree more with you. I’m also thinking for mirrorless body like Fuji for my street photography, but will losing the advantage of full frame especially at night time.

I’m too not a mirrorless fans. The Z body is smaller but not lighter... it’s still 600g ++, just a bit lighter than 5DIV and not to mention the 6D body.

Really curious how many working pro really need a mirrorless or just those youtuber screaming on that...
I saw a comment a few weeks ago that essentially amounted to any camera made by a major manufacturer in the last 3 years is a good camera. I think that gets lost. We are really talking about variations of good. At that point, it really becomes what is better for certain situations or what your personal preferences are. So, those that crave "they best" are going to need to chase what is becoming ever decreasing minutia.


Thom Hogan has a nice summary of the pro/con's.

https://www.sansmirror.com/newsviews/the-post-z-discussion-begin.html
 

BeenThere

EOS R
CR Pro
Sep 4, 2012
1,239
666
Eastern Shore
Little? Single card slot, 300ish shots per battery are enough for me to pass it.
This is not the “pro” model, and though nice to have, these features would not be deal breakers for me. Possible deal breakers may come from hands on reviews if major deficiencies are found.
 

tiltshift

EOS M50
Dec 8, 2012
36
13
I think battery life is so dependent on expectations and what you shoot. I have a a7RII and yes the battery is shit vs my 5dIV which lasts 2-4x longer. If you cover events (sports, weddings, etc) then I understand the potential for it to be dead when you need it most but for everyone else what is hard about a battery swap?

Overall I like the Nikon announcement and hope Canon follow it up with something nice of their own. As far as I am concerned it would be a slam dunk if it was a Z6/Z7 spec sheet with eye autofocus, weather sealing, EF mount, and dual card would be nice also but I could live without. Doubt it will have all that so we will have to see.... But just like everyone else here this is only one Canon users opinion, we all want something different.

In the end despite what each of us wants, given we want different things for different uses, it will leave some people mad and disappointed as the one thing they wanted and deem 100% "can't live without" wasn't there and screw Canon for that right? :p
 

bergstrom

Photographer
Feb 23, 2015
273
160
I see no reason to switch to a mirrorless camera unless it has Eye Autofocus, since the nikon doesnt.. whats the point. I really hope Canon adds Eye AF to their next Body.

beat me to it. Eye AF at this stage should be the norm.
 

ahsanford

Particular Member
Aug 16, 2012
8,617
1,642
I see no reason to switch to a mirrorless camera unless it has Eye Autofocus, since the nikon doesnt.. whats the point. I really hope Canon adds Eye AF to their next Body.

Neat feature, sure, but very few of us are truly one-issue voters on these systems. Were that the case, we'd all be on A7 right now.

I'll be brave and say that Nikonians (who go in on FF mirrorless) will be disproportionately swayed to the N6/N7 for the obvious reasons -- Nikkor compatibility, familiar controls to their SLR (possibly sitting on their other shoulder at a wedding), good build quality and strong ergonomics. And I feel that would be true with/without eye AF.

Perhaps putting this a different way. If Canon offered two FF mirrorless cameras: one had EF compatbility (either full EF mount or a great adaptor) and another didn't offer that but had brilliantly implemented eye AF, which one do you think would sell more? :unsure:

- A
 

ahsanford

Particular Member
Aug 16, 2012
8,617
1,642
I see no reason to switch to a mirrorless camera unless it has Eye Autofocus, since the nikon doesnt.. whats the point. I really hope Canon adds Eye AF to their next Body.

Unless you quite literally mean that the whole point of going to mirrorless is to get Eye AF. You would be in spectacularly small minority in that case.

Of all the 'No no no, dude, Mirrorless is all about _________' postings we've seen here -- and we have seen a LOT of those -- Eye AF being the #1 thing it's all about doesn't even crack the Top 10 raison d'etres for mirrorless.

- A
 

Kit.

EOS 5D Mark IV
Apr 25, 2011
2,125
1,461
How can it be if the company has not developed the software? People make it sound as if it is a case of 'shall we bother?'
I don't think it is so complicated feature to implement for any major camera manufacturer. It is just face detection plus object tracking within the face region.

I am not aware of the usefulness of this feature, though (other than for bragging about its existence, that is). Unless one shoots portraits with f/1.2 lenses, just a properly implemented face tracking should be enough, otherwise it is likely not to be reliable enough anyway.
 
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bergstrom

Photographer
Feb 23, 2015
273
160
Watch Jason's video. I'm a canon user obviously and was tempted by sony a7iii, but probles with vertical shots with canon lenses and the metabones adaptor made me hold off, but I feel bad for Nokn users hoping for something new. Specs n the new nikon lenses are 3 years behind. PLEASECanon, if you aren't up to scratch, the HOLD off and save yourself the embarrassment. LISTEN to photographers wants and needs for mirrorless.

Jason's vid.

 

Respinder

5D Mark III
Mar 4, 2012
85
64
I think given the response that the Nikon Z series has received - the particularly negative response in particular - I really do think that Canon needs to get this right out of the gate. That means they must respond with something truly revolutionary and innovative. My concern with Canon - and maybe this is the cynical side of me - is that for years I feel Canon has spent more time "subtracting" features from their cameras such that they are able to separate the different model lineups, whereas a company like Sony is going all out, full guns ablaze, in adding as many features as possible into low cost cameras. Sony's approach (and I feel Nikon does the same), is to add as many features as possible, and then when there is a higher level model, add more features. Its really an "additive" approach and basically almost every consumer electronics company follows this policy.

With Canon it seems to be mostly subtractive. Its as if they've got a bunch of execs in a room trying to figure out what feature to "gimp" next. And maybe again thats the negative/cynical side of me talking. But for me, the changing point was the rumors that came out a long while back about Canon adding C-log into the 5D Mark IV, along with a bunch of other features that were missing from the camera (i.e. getting rid of the video crop, etc). In general, this hardware update would have been signifigant for Canon, as it would have for the first time demonstrated their humility in accepting that the 5D had its flaws, but now they were willing to get it right. When it was finally announced that it was, in fact, just a C-log update, all of my negative cynicism came flowing back. To me, putting a C-log into the 5D Mark IV - a camera with known video issues (i.e. crop issues + rolling shutter issues) simply demonstrated more of the "subtractive"/"gimping" approach. If anyone disagrees with this view - then please provide me with any reasoning why Canon would keep C-Log out of the 1DX Mark II - which is basically the best video/photo hybrid camera they've ever produced. It makes no sense that all this time later, there is still no official C-log on 1DX Mark II, and it just makes zero sense to me.

So generally while I hope for the best for a Canon mirrorless system, I have this deep cynical view that they will simply gimp it (even through the entire Canon M line did this already?) Let's see what happens. In any case, Canon cannot keep executing this business model as it has been doing, and Nikon is seeing some major negative shift with their Z cameras, despite the fact that I actually think they are pretty good!
 

Don Haines

Beware of cats with laser eyes!
Jun 4, 2012
8,265
1,935
Canada
All Canon has to do to put out a successful mirrorless is to take the 6D2, swap OVF for EVF, put in a clean sensor, IBIS, a decent buffer, and a UHS-2 slot and its away to the races.... if you really want to kick ass, give it 30 FPS, and 120FPS at reduced resolution....

The only reason I can see for the delays in putting it on the market is that they are still perfecting the software.... IBIS with OS is something new for them and I can see it taking time.
 

Respinder

5D Mark III
Mar 4, 2012
85
64
One other thing I would add - everything Jason Lanier says is spot on, and frankly I am worried that Canon is focusing too much on not wanting to "cannibalize" their DSLR sales by making a mirrorless camera with a "subtractive" approach as opposed to Sony's "all-in" additive approach. Right now I fear that Canon's solution in fact may be far worse than Nikon's. I really truly hope I'm wrong about this and that Canon proves everyone wrong. Basically, what they need right now is a mirrorless equivelent of the 5D Mark II - the last camera they've released in my opinion that was still as per an "additive" approach, as it did start the DSLR video revolution.
 

neuroanatomist

I post too Much on Here!!
CR Pro
Jul 21, 2010
25,052
3,010
The only reason I can see for the delays in putting it on the market is that they are still perfecting the software.... IBIS with OS is something new for them and I can see it taking time.
I think they just don't feel a need to hurry. They were 'late' with the EOS M, too, and it worked out well for them overall.

They like to bat cleanup – later in the rotation, they knock it out of the park and send everyone else running for home. ;)
 

Aglet

EOS 5D Mark IV
Feb 26, 2012
1,728
15
AB
I hope Nikon, Canon, Sony, Fuji, etc. read and carefully consider what Olympus managed to accomplish two years ago. This is a like a recipe of what to do well and where to improve.

https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/olympus-om-d-e-m1-mark-ii/11

Then they should attempt their best at accomplishing that with a larger sensor. I think Sony's done pretty well with their latest generation of bodies but I can't say I'm stoked about anything from the two big players yet. I'd certainly like to see Nikon seriously tweak up the performance and features of their Z system ASAP.