Industry News: SD Express Delivers New Gigabyte Speeds for SD Memory Cards

Codebunny

EOS R1
Sep 5, 2018
557
522
So the take-away is that the R5 has yet to be released, but is already obsolete. How depressing...
It has a CF Express slot which is now the main format for pro bodies and will be even with SD Express. The SD slot on the R5 is there for your backups and you can be sure that if SD Express was available the R5's SD slot wouldn't have it. It would be cheeper to put in two CF Express slots.
 

brad-man

Semi-Reactive Member
Jun 6, 2012
1,634
517
S Florida
The worst of it is that I'll be waiting for it to hit my price. Probably take a year and a half. By that time it will be downright ancient...
 

koenkooi

EOS R
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Feb 25, 2015
1,313
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It has a CF Express slot which is now the main format for pro bodies and will be even with SD Express. The SD slot on the R5 is there for your backups and you can be sure that if SD Express was available the R5's SD slot wouldn't have it. It would be cheeper to put in two CF Express slots.
I strongly believe that using CFe+SD on the R5 wasn't because of cost, but for segmentation and marketing reasons.
 

PureClassA

Canon since age 5. The A1
CR Pro
Aug 15, 2014
2,110
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Oh..that's interesting.

I've got a 5D3....I always format my cards before use (after I've unloaded them to computer)....in the camera. I'd assumed this was a low level format?

Cayenne
After a few times that isnt gonna work so well. Once a year at a particular multi day event, I will fill and dump a large CFast2.0 card several times. Using the IN CAMERA format does not do nearly as complete a job as a full format using a full desktop OS. Windows or OSX. When I shoot this event each year, I bring the card reader and my MacBook Pro with an external SSD to dump files between shows and then once dumped, I use the Mac OSX Disk Doctor tool to do a proper format of the card.

What was happening before I learned this was that by the third show (following the second card dump and subsequent formatting inside the DX2) my buffer was starting to clog somewhat as the write speeds were slowing down the camera. By the forth show, my 14fps bursts were becoming more seriously impacted and limited as the DX2 was just seizing up if I was holding down the shutter for multi second bursts (to catch dancers in flight) and i would be dead in the water waiting for 10-20 seconds or more for the buffer to dump i to the card because you can see the buffer counter in the OVF on the DX2 and watch it as you fire. Needless to say the DX2 should not have this problem. Ever. And the first and second shows, it did not. But with each in camera format of that $350 memory card, I was clogging it up more and more. Had I been shooting one or a few frames at a time? Never would notice. But if you are gonna work that shutter like a dog for sports and dance.... you better learn to travel with a computer that can do a proper format. Once I figured that out, I never ever had a problem with cards again.
 

PureClassA

Canon since age 5. The A1
CR Pro
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I strongly believe that using CFe+SD on the R5 wasn't because of cost, but for segmentation and marketing reasons.
Bingo. SD cards can handle 90% or more of the Stills shooting situations this camera will be most Often used for.
CFExpress is primarily being introduced for the more robust needs particularly with the 8k30 4k60 and 4k120 video capabilities. Those cant happen with SD and I’d suspect even the 12-20fps stills in RAW would demand a more serious card than SD if you try to do a multi second burst.
 

cayenne

EOS 5D Mark IV
CR Pro
Mar 28, 2012
2,346
343
After a few times that isnt gonna work so well. Once a year at a particular multi day event, I will fill and dump a large CFast2.0 card several times. Using the IN CAMERA format does not do nearly as complete a job as a full format using a full desktop OS. Windows or OSX. When I shoot this event each year, I bring the card reader and my MacBook Pro with an external SSD to dump files between shows and then once dumped, I use the Mac OSX Disk Doctor tool to do a proper format of the card.

What was happening before I learned this was that by the third show (following the second card dump and subsequent formatting inside the DX2) my buffer was starting to clog somewhat as the write speeds were slowing down the camera. By the forth show, my 14fps bursts were becoming more seriously impacted and limited as the DX2 was just seizing up if I was holding down the shutter for multi second bursts (to catch dancers in flight) and i would be dead in the water waiting for 10-20 seconds or more for the buffer to dump i to the card because you can see the buffer counter in the OVF on the DX2 and watch it as you fire. Needless to say the DX2 should not have this problem. Ever. And the first and second shows, it did not. But with each in camera format of that $350 memory card, I was clogging it up more and more. Had I been shooting one or a few frames at a time? Never would notice. But if you are gonna work that shutter like a dog for sports and dance.... you better learn to travel with a computer that can do a proper format. Once I figured that out, I never ever had a problem with cards again.

That's interesting.
Back when I got my 5D3, I thought the mantra then was that it was MUCH better to format your cards in camera rather than on a computer....?
I"ve been following that ever since...and I do low level formats each time in camera.

Granted I'm using older CF cards and SD cards (primarily as spillover cards).....is this something that maybe has changed with newer cards?

C
 

koenkooi

EOS R
CR Pro
Feb 25, 2015
1,313
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That's interesting.
Back when I got my 5D3, I thought the mantra then was that it was MUCH better to format your cards in camera rather than on a computer....?
I"ve been following that ever since...and I do low level formats each time in camera.

Granted I'm using older CF cards and SD cards (primarily as spillover cards).....is this something that maybe has changed with newer cards?
With that generation of cameras the camera would use exFAT to format the card, while most computers would use VFAT. It made a noticeable difference in write speeds, not sure why.
But as it is with things like this: test it yourself, different brands behave differently.
 

magarity

EOS RP
CR Pro
Feb 14, 2017
263
174
So, if using a SD card for video and it has been mostly filled before, or you intend to fill it, do a low level format first. It resets all the memory to as new status. You don't want to do it unless needed, memory does wear out, and resetting every memory cell each time you format does add up.
The "full format" (which I assume is what you mean by "low level" (which is something else even more extreme)) done by the operating system, either Windows or iOS, is crappy for SD cards. The OS formatter is meant to do anything from hard drives to SSDs to floppy disks if you can find one. What you really want to do is go to www.sdcard.org which is the SD card standards organization and download their SD card format utility. Then choose between quick or full. This is superior to the quick and full options of the OS's format.
 

cayenne

EOS 5D Mark IV
CR Pro
Mar 28, 2012
2,346
343
The "full format" (which I assume is what you mean by "low level" (which is something else even more extreme)) done by the operating system, either Windows or iOS, is crappy for SD cards. The OS formatter is meant to do anything from hard drives to SSDs to floppy disks if you can find one. What you really want to do is go to www.sdcard.org which is the SD card standards organization and download their SD card format utility. Then choose between quick or full. This is superior to the quick and full options of the OS's format.
How do you rate that SD standards format utility vs the one in camera?
 

bandido

EOS M50
May 4, 2016
25
18
Sony Tough SD cards have the contacts sitting flush with the card with virtually no chance of damage. I experienced a 7D that bent a pin in the CF card slot. I've broken the ribs separating contacts on regular SD cards. Won't happen with Sony Tough.
I would definitely use the Sony Tough SD cards even though they are more expensive. I wish other manufactures would make similar cards. Still, try not to touch those pins.
 

PureClassA

Canon since age 5. The A1
CR Pro
Aug 15, 2014
2,110
804
Mandeville, LA
Shields-Photography.com
That's interesting.
Back when I got my 5D3, I thought the mantra then was that it was MUCH better to format your cards in camera rather than on a computer....?
I"ve been following that ever since...and I do low level formats each time in camera.

Granted I'm using older CF cards and SD cards (primarily as spillover cards).....is this something that maybe has changed with newer cards?

C
The camera doesn't clean the card nearly as effectively. Again, this isnt something you need to do every single time.

And when I do it on a computer I format it to EXFAT (if you’re using a larger card). Once it gets in camera, it will write its usual Canon folders to it
 

CanonFanBoy

Real men single speed.
CR Pro
Jan 28, 2015
5,115
3,256
Irving, Texas
After a few times that isnt gonna work so well. Once a year at a particular multi day event, I will fill and dump a large CFast2.0 card several times. Using the IN CAMERA format does not do nearly as complete a job as a full format using a full desktop OS. Windows or OSX. When I shoot this event each year, I bring the card reader and my MacBook Pro with an external SSD to dump files between shows and then once dumped, I use the Mac OSX Disk Doctor tool to do a proper format of the card.

What was happening before I learned this was that by the third show (following the second card dump and subsequent formatting inside the DX2) my buffer was starting to clog somewhat as the write speeds were slowing down the camera. By the forth show, my 14fps bursts were becoming more seriously impacted and limited as the DX2 was just seizing up if I was holding down the shutter for multi second bursts (to catch dancers in flight) and i would be dead in the water waiting for 10-20 seconds or more for the buffer to dump i to the card because you can see the buffer counter in the OVF on the DX2 and watch it as you fire. Needless to say the DX2 should not have this problem. Ever. And the first and second shows, it did not. But with each in camera format of that $350 memory card, I was clogging it up more and more. Had I been shooting one or a few frames at a time? Never would notice. But if you are gonna work that shutter like a dog for sports and dance.... you better learn to travel with a computer that can do a proper format. Once I figured that out, I never ever had a problem with cards again.
Good to know. Thank you. I had always assumed the in camera format was the same.
 

PureClassA

Canon since age 5. The A1
CR Pro
Aug 15, 2014
2,110
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Good to know. Thank you. I had always assumed the in camera format was the same.
I found out the hard way, choking a card with multi second bursts after several in camera formats. I thought either the camera buffer was going bad or the card was. Did some digging online and discovered what was happening. After using Disk Doctor to do the format it was like a brand new card again. No buffer problems, no write choking. You just have to make sure you use the correct formatting spec. So if you're on a Mac forexample, Disk Doctor will want to default to MAC OS Extended journal.... Don't do that... Just make sure if the card is over 64MB (i think it's 64) you going to want to use EXFAT.

Now another thing I learned I should mention is if you guys are shooting video especially on some older model cameras, sometimes you'll find your longer clips have been cut into multiple files even if you didn't stop the roll. That's also a formatting issue. The EXFAT format even on smaller cards will prevent that and some of the older cameras like the 5D3 still wanted to do older FAT formats in camera, where as if you take the card and do an EXFAT format on a computer, the file sizes won't be limited to 4GB and in turn break up your long video clip.

....or you just use an external recorder with a 1TB SSD and none of this is at issue. Honestly if you look at having to buy 3-4 CFast2.0 or CF Express cards, you 'll be far better off and come in cheaper buying a Ninja V with a fast SSD

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/4056550
 
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koenkooi

EOS R
CR Pro
Feb 25, 2015
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....or you just use an external recorder with a 1TB SSD and none of this is at issue. Honestly if you look at having to buy 3-4 CFast2.0 or CF Express cards, you 'll be far better off and come in cheaper buying a Ninja V with a fast SSD

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/4056550
That works if your hdmi out can do the same as the internal recorder, AIUI the 1dx3 and r5 can’t output full res to hdmi, so for the 5.5 and 8k you’re stuck with CFe.
 

PureClassA

Canon since age 5. The A1
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Aug 15, 2014
2,110
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That works if your hdmi out can do the same as the internal recorder, AIUI the 1dx3 and r5 can’t output full res to hdmi, so for the 5.5 and 8k you’re stuck with CFe.
Correct. It's camera dependent. But for MOST recording applications, which would be in either 1080p and 4K at framerates up to 60fps, the Ninja will handle them just fine and at 10bit 422 C-Log if you're using an EOS R, 5D4, or 1dx3 as of now... The soon-to-be R5, yes internal only if you want to film at 4k120 or 8K. But how often are those modes going be used compared to the others. Probably not near as much. And that's mostly due to HDMI protocols not being quite up to snuff on delivering those speeds yet. That's why you'll find SDI ports on the upper end Cinema cameras
 

magarity

EOS RP
CR Pro
Feb 14, 2017
263
174
How do you rate that SD standards format utility vs the one in camera?
Excellent question that's hard to answer without knowing what the camera utility is doing which is hard to guess. SD group's utility claims to be the most optimized for SD cards, so it's hard to imagine what might be better.
 
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scottburgess

Canonical Canon
Jun 20, 2013
222
16
I would definitely use the Sony Tough SD cards even though they are more expensive. I wish other manufactures would make similar cards. Still, try not to touch those pins.
If it was like most Sony products, you'd have to buy a Sony Playstation system to format it, a Sony camera to read it, and a Sony robot to lock/unlock it. :p :D