Lexar Announces Development of SD Express Memory Cards

[Aussie shooter]

What is the max write speed of the R5 sd slot?

I use Lexar 2000x cards for full size jpegs and can hit buffer in electronic shutter.
I never hit buffer with the CFExpress slot.

Can the camera actually make use of a faster card?

At events when I need the silent shutter, I have to turn jpeg size down one notch not to hit buffer.

Questiin. How many shots do you need at those events?

 

[Deleted member 381342]

You were hoping the format with something like 90% market share was going to die? Kind of like the "Canon is dead" line

SD Express has 0% market share. And SD is an obsolete format. Why replace SD with SD Express when we already have CF Express A&B established in a much more sturdy forms. You will be buying £250 SD Express cards or £250 CF Express cards, why let a format that should have ran its course years ago continue? Especially when consumer cameras are a dying breed themselves.

 

[Deleted member 381342]

As jam05 previously mentioned, this is perhaps the reason Canon chose to go with separate slots on the R5 and R3. If SDExpress allows for redundant recording at similar speeds, this could satisfy a lot of shooters who wanted equal card slots. Of course, we have yet to see if the R1 will have dual CFExpress slots for max speed.

SD Express on the R5 at least will read/write at UHS I speeds max so you are better off with your existing UHS II cards when you need backups. It is unlikely the R3 will have SD Express, if they wanted to use those lanes I can't imagine them wasting them on SD Express with no cards and existing cards getting cut to 80-100 MB/s.

 

[Deleted member 381342]

With one caveat. There's one tiny step one must include to transfer that CFexpress card B data to a PC, a costly card reader not usually found at your local Best Buy and not all are compatible with the highest transfer rates as many R5 owners discovered last summer. Not necessarry with an SD card. Todays PCs are built with SD card readers. Not very many with Express card B slots. The gazillion Canon 5D owners didnt need to carry CFexpress B card readers. That is Canon's base consumer.

Built in SD readers will do SD Express at 80-100 MB/s max at the moment. Built in SD Express readers are as unlikely as built in CF Express readers... that's PCIe lanes that could become another TB3 port. And a TB3 CF Express reader is only £100, hardly breaking the bank.

 

[SteveC]

I was hoping they would finally let SD just die. We have CF Express in all different form factors and no need to keep SD on life support any longer.

SD is nowhere near dying. It's used in a lot of places outside of high end photography circles.

When I first became interested in photography a few years ago I was actually surprised to discover anyone still used Compact Flash. It dates back to 1994 and is bulky and has those pins you can bend if you look at them crosseyed.

 

[Kiton]

Questiin. How many shots do you need at those events?

I do not have much bad to say about the R5, but this topic.....

It isn't about how many I need so much as the fact Canon has not given us frame rate choices while in silent.

A murderer or street gang member is walking down the hallway at the court house, I want silent shutter, I do not want 20 frames a second. But my hands are tied. So I throw 90% in the trash, but I don't want the click click of the shutter in those types of cases, and many others. I wish Canon would update the firmware and do like my old A9, I had 3 frame rate choices while in silent shutter.

 

[Juangrande]

What is the max write speed of the R5 sd slot?

I use Lexar 2000x cards for full size jpegs and can hit buffer in electronic shutter.
I never hit buffer with the CFExpress slot.

Can the camera actually make use of a faster card?

At events when I need the silent shutter, I have to turn jpeg size down one notch not to hit buffer.

What kind of events are you shooting where you feel the need to lean that hard on the shutter for so long. ? I used to shoot weddings and only took my camera off single shot for the bouquet and garter toss. Corporate events no need to take it off single shot. Unless by “event” you mean something like a track and field event.

 

[David - Sydney]

As jam05 previously mentioned, this is perhaps the reason Canon chose to go with separate slots on the R5 and R3. If SDExpress allows for redundant recording at similar speeds, this could satisfy a lot of shooters who wanted equal card slots. Of course, we have yet to see if the R1 will have dual CFExpress slots for max speed.

The SD Express specifications have been out since June 2018 so about 4 years until the first commercial card and controller will be available.
R5/R3 couldn't possibly have them built in. The only choice for the R5 was CFe type B for the 8k raw @ ~1800MB/s and SD USH-II for the rest.
Dual CFe cards would have been an option and there has been very similar pricing for both. The CFe slot produces considerable heat even when not recording so dual cards might be a bigger heat problem.
For the R3, a combined SD/CFe Type A slot similar to the A1 or SD USH-II plus CFe type A/B for the R3.... but if it isn't capable of 8K raw ie <45mp then CFe type B is not needed or do what the A1 does and not provide a raw option ie 10 bit 4:2:0 XAVC @ 400Mb/s and CFe type B isn't needed.

 

[David - Sydney]

With one caveat. There's one tiny step one must include to transfer that CFexpress card B data to a PC, a costly card reader not usually found at your local Best Buy and not all are compatible with the highest transfer rates as many R5 owners discovered last summer. Not necessarry with an SD card. Todays PCs are built with SD card readers. Not very many with Express card B slots. The gazillion Canon 5D owners didnt need to carry CFexpress B card readers. That is Canon's base consumer.

Yes, the CFe type B card reader is expensive. If memory serves me correctly, you can still off load via the USB-C connector though.
Upgrading tje USB-C to a TB3 controller would be a good move.
A generation of MBP users didn't have a SD card slot but rumoured to return in the next iteration which will be nice to have again. No PCs to my knowledge have a CFe type B card slot so dongles/docks are the only option besides the USB-C cable

 

[David - Sydney]

What kind of events are you shooting where you feel the need to lean that hard on the shutter for so long. ? I used to shoot weddings and only took my camera off single shot for the bouquet and garter toss. Corporate events no need to take it off single shot. Unless by “event” you mean something like a track and field event.

eshutter has minimum 20fps and action such as indoor karate events can generate a lot of shots in a short period.

 

[EOS 4 Life]

Eventually CFE B as well, since the 8.0 spec includes two lanes. In the end, it is about bus driver power. Right now, a 2 lane SD Express card would probably melt down. Even the much larger CFE B cards get darn hot, but a switch to lower voltage is included in the spec and technology marches on, so eventually we will see 2 lane pcie4 and even picie5 cards. Very fast transfers.

Just like SD, CF Express Type B is a standard form factor:
Cfast, XQD, and CFExpress.
CF Express Type A is pointless.
I am not sure the point of CF Express C but I will reserve judgment.

 

[EOS 4 Life]

SD is nowhere near dying. It's used in a lot of places outside of high end photography circles.

When I first became interested in photography a few years ago I was actually surprised to discover anyone still used Compact Flash. It dates back to 1994 and is bulky and has those pins you can bend if you look at them crosseyed.

I never realized SD FUD was a thing.

 

[EOS 4 Life]

I wish Canon would update the firmware and do like my old A9, I had 3 frame rate choices while in silent shutter.

Don't wish.
Make a formal request to Canon unless you have a genie we don't know about.

 

[David - Sydney]

Just like SD, CF Express Type B is a standard form factor:
Cfast, XQD, and CFExpress.
CF Express Type A is pointless.
I am not sure the point of CF Express C but I will reserve judgment.

Not sure about pointless...CFe Type A is smaller than Type B and has combined slot option with SD card... a significant space saving over CFe type B. The only difference is speed 1 vs 2GB/s and if you don't need the speed...
CFe Type A are only made by Sony and are more expensive and slower than Type B and only used on one camera so not so useful. They may go the path of Memory Stick cards.
I am not sure if CFe card/slot generate as much heat as Type B card/slot either.

Do you mean that Cfast (36.4 x 42.8 x 3.6mm) is the same physical size as CFe Type B (38.5 x 29.8 x 3.8mm)? QXD is the same size as CFe Type B cards.

CFe Type C may never be made available commercially unless we start using 16k raw uncompressed bit rates with 4GB/s speeds needed.

 

[Kiton]

What kind of events are you shooting where you feel the need to lean that hard on the shutter for so long. ? I used to shoot weddings and only took my camera off single shot for the bouquet and garter toss. Corporate events no need to take it off single shot. Unless by “event” you mean something like a track and field event.

Certain moments of an NHL hockey game. NOT all of the game, shoot outs, sudden death over time.
Riots, I don't want the click sound but want more than the low frame rate, but not 20 fps. The click sound can result in a brick to the head or the camera.
Certain moments at Tennis.
Formula One, the checkered flag and a few other spots here and there only (no F1 here in 2021 due to Covid, maybe next year)
Courthouse suspect/accused appearances. We cant shoot in the court room, just the hallways.
Funerals, again, I want a quick silent mode, but not 20 frames a second.
Candle lit vigils. We have a huge crisis breaking here with the residential school mass graves being discovered one by one.
Classical and Jazz Concerts. I would LOVE single frame in silent mode, no such beast on the R5. Maddening!
etc etc

I have not shot a track and field event yet with the R5, but I would be rather sure I would be fine with mechanical shutter in that scenario.

 

[Aussie shooter]

I do not have much bad to say about the R5, but this topic.....

It isn't about how many I need so much as the fact Canon has not given us frame rate choices while in silent.

A murderer or street gang member is walking down the hallway at the court house, I want silent shutter, I do not want 20 frames a second. But my hands are tied. So I throw 90% in the trash, but I don't want the click click of the shutter in those types of cases, and many others. I wish Canon would update the firmware and do like my old A9, I had 3 frame rate choices while in silent shutter.

You can squeeze the shutter for a half second you know. I do it all the time with my R6 in ES for wildlife. Just anticipate the moment

 

[Dragon]

SD Express has 0% market share. And SD is an obsolete format. Why replace SD with SD Express when we already have CF Express A&B established in a much more sturdy forms. You will be buying £250 SD Express cards or £250 CF Express cards, why let a format that should have ran its course years ago continue? Especially when consumer cameras are a dying breed themselves.

Sorry, but SD cards have always been cheaper than any version of CF cards for equivalent performance. That is what volume does. SD express has 0% market share only because it has just been introduced (because it had to wait for driver efficiency to keep the power down). CFE type B is used on a few cameras and type A only on a couple of Sony Cameras. That is not compelling market share. single lane SD express cards will be cheaper than CFE type A and when the power envelope supports them, dual lane SD express cards will be cheaper than CFE type B cards. Mark this comment and check back in two years. You will see.

 

[Dragon]

Just like SD, CF Express Type B is a standard form factor:
Cfast, XQD, and CFExpress.
CF Express Type A is pointless.
I am not sure the point of CF Express C but I will reserve judgment.

Agreed. I think CFE B will stick around much like CF cards did, but SD Express is likely to take a lot of market share (and will be cheaper). The first to implement PCIE 5 may well make a difference in the long term outcome as that will provide enough I/O BW that memory chips will not catch up for a fair while.

 

[David - Sydney]

Sorry, but SD cards have always been cheaper than any version of CF cards for equivalent performance. That is what volume does. SD express has 0% market share only because it has just been introduced (because it had to wait for driver efficiency to keep the power down). CFE type B is used on a few cameras and type A only on a couple of Sony Cameras. That is not compelling market share. single lane SD express cards will be cheaper than CFE type A and when the power envelope supports them, dual lane SD express cards will be cheaper than CFE type B cards. Mark this comment and check back in two years. You will see.

CFast and CF cards were more expensive than the same capacity SD cards but were no match in speed/performance.

CFe Type B card spec came out in 2017 and there was already healthy competition from a number of OEMs in 2021 with multiple cameras using them. SD USH-II cards were approximately the same cost as CFe cards when I bought them last year but seem to have dropped a bit in price but are topping out at ~300MB/s vs 1400MB/s CFe Type B write speeds.

4 year introduction time for SD Express cards and no camera using them yet. Max speed from Lexar appears to be 400MB/s write speed ie 30% more than USH-II speeds today but no match for CFe Type B. There needs to be volume and unless there are cameras released or alternative uses then I can't see where the volume/price reduction will come from.

People are still buying cheap SD class 1 cards and have difficulties understanding what cards are required for 4k/30 video. The speed/naming classes are a mess with SD. Ubiquitous but very confusing.

 

[EOS 4 Life]

Not sure about pointless...CFe Type A is smaller than Type B and has combined slot option with SD card.

I get why you might not be sure, but what I mean by pointless is that I don't really see much of a point in a combined CF Express Type-A/SD slot over simply having an SD Express slot. No one was making CF Express Type A cards at the time and Sony chose to make the drives and the media when they could have done the same thing for SD Express.

Do you mean that Cfast (36.4 x 42.8 x 3.6mm) is the same physical size as CFe Type B (38.5 x 29.8 x 3.8mm)? QXD is the same size as CFe Type B cards.

By form factor, I mean around the same size. CF Express Type A and SD are not the same sizes either.

People are still buying cheap SD class 1 cards and have difficulties understanding what cards are required for 4k/30 video. The speed/naming classes are a mess with SD. Ubiquitous but very confusing.

I could not agree more.
There are now like 7 different compatibility markings on SD cards and yet the only reliable way is to check the camera's recommended media list.