Is Canon now two generations behind Nikon?
- Thread starter ramonjsantiago
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It is hard to take any of this seriously...
Want to know what I tell people when they ask me what camera to buy? I tell them to figure out how they are going to use it, and then look for the lenses that suit their needs.... and then to worry about the body. I tell them that the lenses are a long term investment that they will be shooting with for decades, and that the camera is an expendable item that will be obsolete in a few years....
Want to know what I tell people when they ask me what camera to buy? I tell them to figure out how they are going to use it, and then look for the lenses that suit their needs.... and then to worry about the body. I tell them that the lenses are a long term investment that they will be shooting with for decades, and that the camera is an expendable item that will be obsolete in a few years....
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The sensor in the Nikon D810 is an improved version of the one used in the D800/800E all of which are made by Sony (same sensor as the Sony A7R etc range). Canon make their own sensors and has rightly been said its the "system" thats important not just the camera / sensor.
The most popular movie camera currently is the Arri Alexa its NOT a 4K camera (its about 2.8K) whereas Red has an Epic 5K & Dragon 6K and Canon, Sony etc make 4K cameras. Not heard anyone complaining at the cinema about films shot with an Alexa.
The most popular movie camera currently is the Arri Alexa its NOT a 4K camera (its about 2.8K) whereas Red has an Epic 5K & Dragon 6K and Canon, Sony etc make 4K cameras. Not heard anyone complaining at the cinema about films shot with an Alexa.
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I can't believe you stole my Instagram shot! You'll pay for thatDon Haines said:
. If you had access to the RAW file that I shot with my Sony A8S prototype (oops, just blew my NDA), you would be able to lift those shadows to see the black cats, crows, and even Neuro's unicorn. I was actually over at Stephen Hawking's place last night showing him how I captured the inside of some black holes with the prototype. He said, "Yeah right," so I showed him the camera sensor and he was convinced. Look for our joint article in the next issue of Nature 
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Don Haines said:
Think I just peed myself reading that one....
It's funny, Matt Granger (That Nikon Guy) has been out the last two weeks doing shoots on his new D810.... and a Ziess Otis 55. Why? Cuz Nikon glass ain't all that spectacular. It's great that they can buy Sony sensors and put them in Nikon boxes with inferior to Canon AF systems. At least they make their own glass well... Nevermind, you have to go buy Sigma or Ziess glass to make that sensor work right. Dang it.
Canon's glass is ahead of it's bodies, which is precisely what you want. Nikon is the other way around, which ain't so hot. People upgrade bodies more often than glass I suspect. In that regard I think Canon is much more future proof, however I am a new Sigma glass fan, and that crew is really sitting in the catbird seat right now with lenses.
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mackguyver said:I can't believe you stole my Instagram shot! You'll pay for thatDon Haines said:
Big deal. The A9S will let you push shadows to the point of resolving separate quantum realities. If you photograph Schrödinger's cat your RAW converter will let you see him both dead and alive!
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Dammit Sony told me I had the latest prototype, but I guess that was 2 days ago. At the pace they release new bodies, and ahem, new lens systems, it's no surprise.dtaylor said:mackguyver said:I can't believe you stole my Instagram shot! You'll pay for thatDon Haines said:
Big deal. The A9S will let you push shadows to the point of resolving separate quantum realities. If you photograph Schrödinger's cat your RAW converter will let you see him both dead and alive!
P.S. Nice one!
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neuroanatomist said:I see you also believe that the only important part of the camera is the sensor.
Ooooh, look at that amazing bird-in-flight shot from the D810...incredible resolution, really wide dynamic range. Sure, it's a bit blurry because the AF couldn't track the subject well enough...and just a little off optimal wing position where maybe a 20% faster frame rate would have helped...but just look at the DR and all those MP. :Camera ≠ sensor.
As stated earlier, the 5DIII has a faster frame rate and a better AF system, to name two camera technologies where it is superior to the D810. The D810 has better low ISO DR, great if you need it. It has more MP, although with many lenses that doesn't translate to better resolution (and when it does, the difference is much less than the MP differential would suggest). You may view lenses as a 'distraction', but unless you drill a pinhole in your body cap, lenses are necessary.
I see John, you're doing that thing again, where you state the complete lack of experience you have as facts.
Let's deal in some actual facts then shall we, or at least observed experience with said kit.
You know who I am despite the name change. I've owned the Mk1, Mk2, Mk3, the D800, and for the last month, the D810.
The Mk3 had a minor AF advantage over the D800. If I was shooting sports or birds, I'd have given the Mk3 the edge for sure.
I don't, so I went with the D800 for the last 2 years and sold the Mk3. The annoyances with the D800 were not a problem for what I mostly shoot, but IQ was my main concern and the D800 had it.
I can work around almost anything except problematic IQ.
So, to the D810, which has the D4s focus system.
Are you seriously telling me you've tried it John? You seem so confident in what you say, and that famous sarcasm is carping back in.
Did I not beat that out of you and try to bring you're more intelligent side to the fore more often? Do I need to try again?
The D810 has everything the D800 had, and everything the Mk3 has and a bit more.
You will not be missing shots on a D810 that you would get on a Mk3, Rather the other way round.
Maybe the Mk4 will trounce the D810. Great if it does, because i need Nikon to be pushed to make the D820 better, and they haven't really been pushed very hard since the D4 and D800 were released it has to be said.
And this 'Canon lenses are better than Nikons' fairytale that is spoken like it's fact round here?
What the hell is that about?
85mm? Nikon 1.4 and 1.8 are more modern and better than the Canon equivalents which were released sometime during the 2nd word war it seems.
The 851.2 L is great, but heavy and unless you really really need 1.2, it only exists for wank value, something anyone with more money than brains will laud over everyone else.
Yes, I've used one extensively. Shame phase focus can't really nail the accuracy that F1.2 desperately needs very much, making it a slow job to actually use it and get it in focus, and if you're not at 1.2 the F1.4 is sharper anyway through 1.8-4.
F1.2 is great if you use manual focus or live view though, but does make it kinda specialist. Who needs just one eyelash in focus really?
I'm sure knife edge DOF is someone's passion but it's not most peoples. Is it really better than the 1.4? A third of a stop?
I doubt it on here when 2-3 stops of DR is not desired by anyone it seems.
Same with the 50mm range, except who'd get either a Nikon or a Canon when the Sigma 50m Art is so amazing?
The 50mm game is over now. Sigma has it by a country mile. The first lens ever I just don't want to take off.
Only someone with a logo fetish would not go that way. Yes, I know Sigmas are a problem with autofocus on Canons, but on Nikons, they are as accurate as any of my many Nikons are.
The 35mm Art wasn't perfect with autofocus, but then those nice Sigma people upgraded it's firmware, and now it's perfect. Awesome.
Nikon 14-24 F2.8? Stunning lens that Canon has no answer for. Maybe Sigma will soon and level the playing field?
24-70 F2.8? Nikon's isn't great it has to be said, in fact, I won't use it, and it sits in my bag wasting space.
it's about as good as the Canon V1, maybe a tad softer at the edges, but Canon's V2 is far better and I'd like that on my D810.
The Tamron is better than all except the Canon V2 anyway, so for a grand, that's the one I'd go for if I wasn't a fan of primes.
70-200 F2.8? About the same, although I do think imho, that Canon's IS is superior. I guess by a stop or maybe even 2.
Wide Primes? I'm not a big user so won't offer an opinion. My 14-24 fulfils all my wide needs, so I look no further.
That lens is so good it makes me wish I shot more wide shots but I don't so it gets used less than it deserves.
My point is that this assumption that Canon lenses are superior is uninformed at best and delusional logo fandom at worst.
It's actually complicated, and depends on where your usage is.
For me, my 14-24, 35mm Sigma Art, 50mm Sigma Art, 85 F1.8G, 70-200 F2.8VR2, 60mm 2.8G Macro covers MY needs, Canon don't make better lenses in those ranges.
They may in some cases equal them, but not better them.
How hard is it to get balance on this forum? It's like a kindergarten most of the time, with total rubbish thrown around as absolute fact.
And that's for both sides of the fence, but being a Canon site, the fawning over that Canon logo is quite sad at times., but then so is the Nikon fanboys.
Facts people. Or at least informed opinion.
Canon have so many old lenses, and no one talks about that. All their 50mm are ancient, their 85mm's are getting long in the tooth, and many of their L lenses are not nearly worthy of the L, when cheaper Tamrons and Sigmas match or exceed their performance.
The 17-40 F4? I hated that lens and all it's issues for the 5 years I had it, and that was on 21 meg, let alone what it would look like on 36 meg with no OLPF.
How old is that L lens exactly? 8 years? 10? I got mine in 2007, and it wasn't a new lens even then.
Ditto the 24-105. Distortion, CA, soft at the edges, it has the lot, although it's IS is pretty great.
Well, I'm sure it's time for you all to tear me a new arse as you are duty bound to do, but before you do, how many have used all these lenses and cameras for paying work?
I imagine it's not many, but I am one of them.
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ramonjsantiago said:
What????? ok, I know you're not supposed to feed the trolls but... the d810 is barely an upgrade, it's meant to fix bugs in the d800 and d800e. The d900 isn't out and about. While I have heard that many nikonians are very pleased with the d810, it is forcing lots of d800 users to sell and upgrade (at a premium mind you - $3300!). With that said...it's the same generation of body as the 5d3, 1dx and the 6d.
2 generations behind???? Only if you have a serious case of DRenvy
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unfocused
Photos/Photo Book Reviews: www.thecuriouseye.com
jakeymate said:
Let me be the first.
Actually, not really. First, I give extra points to anyone who actually has to earn a living in photography who participates on this forum. I'm not sure why they bother, but I appreciate that.
As for me, I never have and never will criticize Nikon. It is a great system and I frankly don't see a lot of point in dwelling on the small differences. Some people prefer Nikon, some people prefer Canon. Everyone has their reasons and that's fine with me.
Sony is also fine, but I do believe that people take a bigger risk investing in Sony lenses. I am willing to bet thousands of dollars that Canon will be around for the rest of my life. (In fact, that is what I have done by buying a lot of their lenses). I'd be willing to take that same bet with Nikon. But, I'm old enough to have seen most of the other camera manufacturers come and go to not feel comfortable investing in Sony lenses. That's just me.
I like Canon. That's why I buy Canon. I don't understand people who would buy equipment they don't like. Yet this forum (not you, whomever you are) is filled with people who have bought Canon equipment (or so they claim) and seem so caught up in having the newest technology that they are incapable of enjoying what they have out of fear that the next release by some competitor might be marginally superior in some way.
I think anyone with half a brain and a bit of honesty must admit that for 99% of photographers under 99% of shooting conditions, the cheapest Nikon or Canon DSLR will product results indistinguishable from the flagship full frame model of either manufacturer. Perhaps you are in the 1% and shoot in the 1% of conditions where that is not true. Congratulations to you.
I won't speak for Neuro. But, I think a lot of the people on this forum grow frustrated with commentary that dwells on insignificant differences. In the past several days we've had pages and pages of commentary about how terrible Canon is because you can't shoot straight into a setting sun and have leaves that are in shadow come out properly exposed. Well...boo...hoo.
This particular topic was clearly started with the sole intent of generating anger and frustration from forum participants. And, unfortunately the original poster has gotten exactly what he wanted.
The ongoing commentary on this forum has become particularly ridiculous of late and for me that was underscored because I happened to attend a Scott Kelby seminar earlier in the week. I am sure there will be those who rush to criticize Kelby, but the fact is, the guy is a damn good photographer.
A sizable portion of his commentary was spent on making the point time and time again that equipment is the least important part of photography. He not only says that, but demonstrates it time and time again. He showed incredible images shot with lenses that no one on this forum would dare admit to using out of fear of being massacred because "that lens is a piece of crap."
So, from my perspective, if you find Nikon better for your purposes, that is great. I honestly don't care.
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Hey, Guys!
Come on, please!
Please do not bash each other! There is no need of to do this.
Objective arguments are better than bashing each other for his opinion.
There are many different opinions, many "truth". Read 5 photomagazines and you read 5 different test results.
(Example: In a lot of German magazines the D800/D810 is superior in IQ than the 5D3). If someone writes an personal message to me, I can copy the test results.)
But please be tolerant to other opinions. Fanatism has many different faces. There is to much - fatal - intolerance in the world.
Thank you
Come on, please!
Please do not bash each other! There is no need of to do this.
Objective arguments are better than bashing each other for his opinion.
There are many different opinions, many "truth". Read 5 photomagazines and you read 5 different test results.
(Example: In a lot of German magazines the D800/D810 is superior in IQ than the 5D3). If someone writes an personal message to me, I can copy the test results.)
But please be tolerant to other opinions. Fanatism has many different faces. There is to much - fatal - intolerance in the world.
Thank you
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neuroanatomist said:
That said I really hope that we will see the next generation sensors or similiar. Although I have to admit that the Dual AF is quite a tech already.
Quite the family you know ;-)daniela said:
Faaier said:
My religion is called Zeiss Otus 55mm f/1.4 APO-Distagon
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