its all about the 5DS, who is using the 5DR

[Maiaibing]

Got a 5DSR for a very good price. Very happy so far.

Have not really had any time at all to use it so far, but soon I'll get a chance to put it to the test.

Basically, its a 5DIII on steroids with a number of small/big improvements - AF being the most important - and with amazing ability to crop when needed. Have not seen any moire but have also not done more than a few shots where it could be a problem.

Your comment above in red lost me. Aren't the 5D3 and 5DS/5DS R identical from an AF perspective?

From TDP, see below, specs side by side -- 5DS on left, 5D3 on right.

From the spec list, I just thought a 5DS was a 5D3 with more pixels, better anti-shake / mirror slap options, and more processing power to move those bigger files and a few of the 7D2's viewfinder improvements. AF was not improved to my knowledge.

- A

Not the OP but the specs are similar. The 5ds is more like the 7D2 from an AF perspective. Both are similar to the 5D3 but 5ds and 7d2 have a few more extras such as iTR, facial recognition and 5ds also offers a blinking red AF mode so you can see the AF points in the dark. It's similar to the 1DX where it alternates between lighting up the AF points and metering. 5d3 does not offer that.

In addition to being more precise in daily use and also can be customized in many ways the 5D3 AF cannot. Also, what you cannot see from the spec list are things like the new - more accurate - spot focusing mode.

Several reviews (most?) note that the AF has improved noticeably - and I agree.

 

[RustyTheGeek]

i too bought a 5dsr when canonpricewatch had an early street price deal and b&h still hadn't filled their preorders. anyway, moving from a 5dii, i'm very pleased with the upgrade but still feel like i'm just scratching the surface of what it can do. i was initially worried about not seeing too much of a resolution difference unless i was working on a tripod, but that myth was soon dispelled. i have yet to have an issue with moire.

Interesting. Another 5D2 to 5DsR mover. Same here, never saw the point of the 5D3, but got the 5DsR right away.

Interesting, I intentionally skipped the 5D2 and went from a 5D to a 5D3. I never saw the point to the 5D2. LOL!

 

[East Wind Photography]

Got a 5DSR for a very good price. Very happy so far.

Have not really had any time at all to use it so far, but soon I'll get a chance to put it to the test.

Basically, its a 5DIII on steroids with a number of small/big improvements - AF being the most important - and with amazing ability to crop when needed. Have not seen any moire but have also not done more than a few shots where it could be a problem.

Your comment above in red lost me. Aren't the 5D3 and 5DS/5DS R identical from an AF perspective?

From TDP, see below, specs side by side -- 5DS on left, 5D3 on right.

From the spec list, I just thought a 5DS was a 5D3 with more pixels, better anti-shake / mirror slap options, and more processing power to move those bigger files and a few of the 7D2's viewfinder improvements. AF was not improved to my knowledge.

- A

Not the OP but the specs are similar. The 5ds is more like the 7D2 from an AF perspective. Both are similar to the 5D3 but 5ds and 7d2 have a few more extras such as iTR, facial recognition and 5ds also offers a blinking red AF mode so you can see the AF points in the dark. It's similar to the 1DX where it alternates between lighting up the AF points and metering. 5d3 does not offer that.

In addition to being more precise in daily use and also can be customized in many ways the 5D3 AF cannot. Also, what you cannot see from the spec list are things like the new - more accurate - spot focusing mode.

Several reviews (most?) note that the AF has improved noticeably - and I agree.

Yes i always found the 5d3 to be quite accurate and so far i cannot tell the difference but ive only had the 5dsr for about a week now. There is another feature that was added that the 5d3 does not have and that is the ability to program a back button to do setting recall. I use one button for AF On and the other button to af on in spot mode. That way you can switch between default af mode and spot by just rolling your thumb. This was added in the 7d2 and nice to see its worked its way into the 5d world.

Lots of nice pluses in these models.

 

[RustyTheGeek]

I have a 5DS-R, which I use mostly for closeup photography of small wildlife -- insects, invertebrates, amphibians, and reptiles. It is an astonishing camera. When used correctly it produces detail that nothing else in its sensor size matches. I also own a 5Diii and the dynamic range of the 5DS-R is much superior, in my opinion. It also seems to capture colors more accurately and with a richness and depth that is unmatched.

Now, for the drawbacks. This is a camera that requires precision! One must get focus EXACTLY right. There is no forgiveness. The ability to render extraordinary detail also means that even a minimally out of focus shot will be perceived as a blurred mess. Any camera motion will also ruin the shot. One must shoot at a very high shutter speed, or with a flash, or on a tripod. Otherwise, all of those pixels become your enemy!

I love this camera. It has made me a better photographer. But, and fair warning to anyone who's tempted to buy it -- it will make you work harder to get a good shot than you've ever worked before. Do it right and you'll be delighted. Mess up just a little bit and your results will greatly disappoint you.

Thanks for this input Steve. I suspected this but rarely hear it mentioned. And since I primarily shoot event type things and challenging indoor/low light stuff, this would a deal killer for me. Besides, I just don't need high MP for anything I do anyway. In fact, after all this time, this is the first thread I've even read on these cameras and I'm even more convinced that waiting for the 5D4 is still my best move.

 

[Hector1970]

I haven't managed to use mine too much yet as its newly arrived.
I don't know if it's focusing is better than a 5DIII.
The 5DIII is pretty good so its hard to for me to say the 5DSR is better.
I would say the 5DSR gets it's focus correct.
I haven't seen any reason so far as to why you need to be more precise than a 5DIII.
I'm not the world's most fastidious photographer and I've not found the 5DSR any less forgiving than a 5DIII.
Camera movement is not good in either a 5DIII or a 5DSR
Shadow recovery I'd have to say is a big improvement.
The cropability is excellent.
Colour rendition is good. The photos look good out of it.
It's great if you are a pixel peeper

 

[krautland]

5DS ... only. Everybody says it is great...

really? I have a friend who has it and she keeps whining about the supposedly terrible noise in higher ISO ranges, going so far as to label it unusable beyond ISO 1600. she said it was much worse than her 5D MKIII.

 

[RustyTheGeek]

5DS ... only. Everybody says it is great...

really? I have a friend who has it and she keeps whining about the supposedly terrible noise in higher ISO ranges, going so far as to label it unusable beyond ISO 1600. she said it was much worse than her 5D MKIII.

When I got my first 5D3 about 14 months after it released it was a POS on low-light focus. Very bad. I was really disappointed after reading about how GREAT the 5D3 was on low-light focus. I returned it as defective for exchange and when I received the replacement, it was a night and day difference. It still wasn't the miracle that some claimed but it was usable and it improved even more after a future firmware update. The 6D still whipped it on low-light but it wasn't as big of a difference after the update.

So have your friend consider a repair. It might just be a defect! Canon isn't perfect.

 

[ahsanford]

5DS ... only. Everybody says it is great...

really? I have a friend who has it and she keeps whining about the supposedly terrible noise in higher ISO ranges, going so far as to label it unusable beyond ISO 1600. she said it was much worse than her 5D MKIII.

At a per pixel level, you are correct w.r.t. noise. 5D3 outperforms it.

So in good light / in a studio / on a tripod, the 5DS rigs deliver awesome detail and you get what you paid for.

But in poor light handheld, you may need to burn those pixels down to fight noise. So in that light, a 50 MP 5DS shot downsampled to 22MP compared against the 5D3 is -- depending on who you ask -- about a dead heat.

Spinning it another way, you could say the 5DS is a 5D3, but with a special feature: 2.5X the resolution in lower ISO.

I don't own a 5DS, but that's what various reviewers have shared when studying 5DS noise. I welcome this thread's members who have shot both to corroborate or rebut that notion.

- A

 

[East Wind Photography]

5DS ... only. Everybody says it is great...

really? I have a friend who has it and she keeps whining about the supposedly terrible noise in higher ISO ranges, going so far as to label it unusable beyond ISO 1600. she said it was much worse than her 5D MKIII.

At a per pixel level, you are correct w.r.t. noise. 5D3 outperforms it.

So in good light / in a studio / on a tripod, the 5DS rigs deliver awesome detail and you get what you paid for.

But in poor light handheld, you may need to burn those pixels down to fight noise. So in that light, a 50 MP 5DS shot downsampled to 22MP compared against the 5D3 is -- depending on who you ask -- about a dead heat.

Spinning it another way, you could say the 5DS is a 5D3, but with a special feature: 2.5X the resolution in lower ISO.

I don't own a 5DS, but that's what various reviewers have shared when studying 5DS noise. I welcome this thread's members who have shot both to corroborate or rebut that notion.

- A

So the 5d3 does have larger pixels and therefore can capture more light compared to the background noise. Downsampling the 5ds will not change that. It will reduce the fine detail captured. In essence you cant create something that isnt there in the first place. The only way to get better signal to noise with smaller pixels is to reduce the noise floor. I dont believe they acheived that with the 50mp sensor.

In fact the pixels size on the 5ds is the same as the 7d2. Everything else being the same, both should have similar signal to noise in raw data.

 

[ahsanford]

So the 5d3 does have larger pixels and therefore can capture more light compared to the background noise. Downsampling the 5ds will not change that. It will reduce the fine detail captured. In essence you cant create something that isnt there in the first place. The only way to get better signal to noise with smaller pixels is to reduce the noise floor. I dont believe they acheived that with the 50mp sensor.

In fact the pixels size on the 5ds is the same as the 7d2. Everything else being the same, both should have similar signal to noise in raw data.

Case in point with the red text above. The 7D2 has worse noise than the 6D and 5D3, so at a pixel level, the lower res rigs should outperform from a noise perspective.

But Bryan Carnathan at TDP believes downsampling does combat noise:

"My personal expectation was that, when compared at the pixel level, the 5Ds noise levels would be close to those of the not-long-prior released high end EOS 7D II APS-C DSLR and when the 50.6 MP image was scaled down to 5D III pixel dimensions, the 5Ds would have an advantage, producing noise levels similar to or better than the 5D Mark III.

... [see samples in his noise comparisons]

When compared at native resolutions, 5Ds images are noisier than 5D III images. The differences, especially at higher ISO settings, are less than 1 stop. Down-sized to 5D III pixel dimension (using DPP, see "Standard Down-Sized to 5D III" in noise tool), 5Ds noise levels are essentially equal to full frame 5D III noise levels and even slightly better at the highest ISO settings. So, while Canon is not promoting this camera for its low light capabilities, I see it as one of the best options available with output size being comparable."

Is this witch-doctor-y or is this a legitimate noise reduction move?

- A

 

[East Wind Photography]

So the 5d3 does have larger pixels and therefore can capture more light compared to the background noise. Downsampling the 5ds will not change that. It will reduce the fine detail captured. In essence you cant create something that isnt there in the first place. The only way to get better signal to noise with smaller pixels is to reduce the noise floor. I dont believe they acheived that with the 50mp sensor.

In fact the pixels size on the 5ds is the same as the 7d2. Everything else being the same, both should have similar signal to noise in raw data.

Case in point with the red text above. The 7D2 has worse noise than the 6D and 5D3, so at a pixel level, the lower res rigs should outperform from a noise perspective.

But Bryan Carnathan at TDP believes downsampling does combat noise:

"My personal expectation was that, when compared at the pixel level, the 5Ds noise levels would be close to those of the not-long-prior released high end EOS 7D II APS-C DSLR and when the 50.6 MP image was scaled down to 5D III pixel dimensions, the 5Ds would have an advantage, producing noise levels similar to or better than the 5D Mark III.

... [see samples in his noise comparisons]

When compared at native resolutions, 5Ds images are noisier than 5D III images. The differences, especially at higher ISO settings, are less than 1 stop. Down-sized to 5D III pixel dimension (using DPP, see "Standard Down-Sized to 5D III" in noise tool), 5Ds noise levels are essentially equal to full frame 5D III noise levels and even slightly better at the highest ISO settings. So, while Canon is not promoting this camera for its low light capabilities, I see it as one of the best options available with output size being comparable."

Is this witch-doctor-y or is this a legitimate noise reduction move?

- A

Ok so the difference i think here is that you are downsampling off camera and therefore also downsampling noise. I thoughtt you were refering to downsizing in camera to a lower resolution. Its also possible DPP is doing something as well. I dont discount his expertice but the question is can this be reproduced with other software other than DPP? It is an interesting concept for low light situations where 50mp resolution is not required.

 

[Eldar]

The 5DS/R has better noise performance than many seem to think/believe. I have used it extensively since I got it and I am very impressed with this camera (the R). My son is now the happy owner of my 5DIII and the 1DX is only used for very low light and/or action photography. For everything else I prefer the 5DSR. I have had no moiré issues, compared to the 5DIII it has better AF, better shadow noise, better DR and I also believe the colours are better. On top of that you have resolution that gives fantastic large prints and/or lots of cropping options in post.

In an other thread, East Wind Photography asked for a ISO3200 shot. This is a crap image from an artistic point of view, but it fills the histogram and has lots of details. It is shot handheld 1/50s (no IS), f4.0, ISO5000 shot, with 0 NR applied. All settings are default LR, just exported to the size restrictions on CR (4MB). Anyone with a minimum of noise reduction skills will make this look good.

 

[bdunbar79]

5DS ... only. Everybody says it is great...

really? I have a friend who has it and she keeps whining about the supposedly terrible noise in higher ISO ranges, going so far as to label it unusable beyond ISO 1600. she said it was much worse than her 5D MKIII.

At a per pixel level, you are correct w.r.t. noise. 5D3 outperforms it.

So in good light / in a studio / on a tripod, the 5DS rigs deliver awesome detail and you get what you paid for.

But in poor light handheld, you may need to burn those pixels down to fight noise. So in that light, a 50 MP 5DS shot downsampled to 22MP compared against the 5D3 is -- depending on who you ask -- about a dead heat.

Spinning it another way, you could say the 5DS is a 5D3, but with a special feature: 2.5X the resolution in lower ISO.

I don't own a 5DS, but that's what various reviewers have shared when studying 5DS noise. I welcome this thread's members who have shot both to corroborate or rebut that notion.

- A

So the 5d3 does have larger pixels and therefore can capture more light compared to the background noise. Downsampling the 5ds will not change that. It will reduce the fine detail captured. In essence you cant create something that isnt there in the first place. The only way to get better signal to noise with smaller pixels is to reduce the noise floor. I dont believe they acheived that with the 50mp sensor.

In fact the pixels size on the 5ds is the same as the 7d2. Everything else being the same, both should have similar signal to noise in raw data.

That really makes no sense at all because that's not the way it works. It's the SENSOR size that counts. Yes the 5Ds and 7D2 have the same pixel size, but the 5Ds has a larger sensor. So the noise characteristic is better. You can't say "everything else being the same" in your statement but then have different sensor sizes, because everything ISN'T the same. The most important factor regarding noise isn't the same.

 

[Stephen Melvin]

The 5DS/R has better noise performance than many seem to think/believe. I have used it extensively since I got it and I am very impressed with this camera (the R). My son is now the happy owner of my 5DIII and the 1DX is only used for very low light and/or action photography. For everything else I prefer the 5DSR. I have had no moiré issues, compared to the 5DIII it has better AF, better shadow noise, better DR and I also believe the colours are better. On top of that you have resolution that gives fantastic large prints and/or lots of cropping options in post.

In an other thread, East Wind Photography asked for a ISO3200 shot. This is a crap image from an artistic point of view, but it fills the histogram and has lots of details. It is shot handheld 1/50s (no IS), f4.0, ISO5000 shot, with 0 NR applied. All settings are default LR, just exported to the size restrictions on CR (4MB). Anyone with a minimum of noise reduction skills will make this look good.

That image has a startling amount of jpeg compression. It looks like a wicker basket! So it's really hard to judge this sample.

 

[Eldar]

The 5DS/R has better noise performance than many seem to think/believe. I have used it extensively since I got it and I am very impressed with this camera (the R). My son is now the happy owner of my 5DIII and the 1DX is only used for very low light and/or action photography. For everything else I prefer the 5DSR. I have had no moiré issues, compared to the 5DIII it has better AF, better shadow noise, better DR and I also believe the colours are better. On top of that you have resolution that gives fantastic large prints and/or lots of cropping options in post.

In an other thread, East Wind Photography asked for a ISO3200 shot. This is a crap image from an artistic point of view, but it fills the histogram and has lots of details. It is shot handheld 1/50s (no IS), f4.0, ISO5000 shot, with 0 NR applied. All settings are default LR, just exported to the size restrictions on CR (4MB). Anyone with a minimum of noise reduction skills will make this look good.

That image has a startling amount of jpeg compression. It looks like a wicker basket! So it's really hard to judge this sample.

Unfortunately, that´s the consequence of cramming these large files into the size limitation. All I can say is that it is a fantastic camera and anyone with a potential interest should try it out. If the 5DIV or 1DX-II does not provide something significant, compared to the current models, I´ll probably keep my 1DX and get one more 5DSR.

 

[East Wind Photography]

5DS ... only. Everybody says it is great...

really? I have a friend who has it and she keeps whining about the supposedly terrible noise in higher ISO ranges, going so far as to label it unusable beyond ISO 1600. she said it was much worse than her 5D MKIII.

At a per pixel level, you are correct w.r.t. noise. 5D3 outperforms it.

So in good light / in a studio / on a tripod, the 5DS rigs deliver awesome detail and you get what you paid for.

But in poor light handheld, you may need to burn those pixels down to fight noise. So in that light, a 50 MP 5DS shot downsampled to 22MP compared against the 5D3 is -- depending on who you ask -- about a dead heat.

Spinning it another way, you could say the 5DS is a 5D3, but with a special feature: 2.5X the resolution in lower ISO.

I don't own a 5DS, but that's what various reviewers have shared when studying 5DS noise. I welcome this thread's members who have shot both to corroborate or rebut that notion.

- A

So the 5d3 does have larger pixels and therefore can capture more light compared to the background noise. Downsampling the 5ds will not change that. It will reduce the fine detail captured. In essence you cant create something that isnt there in the first place. The only way to get better signal to noise with smaller pixels is to reduce the noise floor. I dont believe they acheived that with the 50mp sensor.

In fact the pixels size on the 5ds is the same as the 7d2. Everything else being the same, both should have similar signal to noise in raw data.

That really makes no sense at all because that's not the way it works. It's the SENSOR size that counts. Yes the 5Ds and 7D2 have the same pixel size, but the 5Ds has a larger sensor. So the noise characteristic is better. You can't say "everything else being the same" in your statement but then have different sensor sizes, because everything ISN'T the same. The most important factor regarding noise isn't the same.

Well only if you fill the frame with your subject on each sensor. If you select aps-c crop mode on the 5ds and back up you should see the same level of noise as your subject is now spread across the same area as in the 7d2. The only real benefit you get over the 7d2 is more pixels.

 

[East Wind Photography]

5DS ... only. Everybody says it is great...

really? I have a friend who has it and she keeps whining about the supposedly terrible noise in higher ISO ranges, going so far as to label it unusable beyond ISO 1600. she said it was much worse than her 5D MKIII.

At a per pixel level, you are correct w.r.t. noise. 5D3 outperforms it.

So in good light / in a studio / on a tripod, the 5DS rigs deliver awesome detail and you get what you paid for.

But in poor light handheld, you may need to burn those pixels down to fight noise. So in that light, a 50 MP 5DS shot downsampled to 22MP compared against the 5D3 is -- depending on who you ask -- about a dead heat.

Spinning it another way, you could say the 5DS is a 5D3, but with a special feature: 2.5X the resolution in lower ISO.

I don't own a 5DS, but that's what various reviewers have shared when studying 5DS noise. I welcome this thread's members who have shot both to corroborate or rebut that notion.

- A

So the 5d3 does have larger pixels and therefore can capture more light compared to the background noise. Downsampling the 5ds will not change that. It will reduce the fine detail captured. In essence you cant create something that isnt there in the first place. The only way to get better signal to noise with smaller pixels is to reduce the noise floor. I dont believe they acheived that with the 50mp sensor.

In fact the pixels size on the 5ds is the same as the 7d2. Everything else being the same, both should have similar signal to noise in raw data.

That really makes no sense at all because that's not the way it works. It's the SENSOR size that counts. Yes the 5Ds and 7D2 have the same pixel size, but the 5Ds has a larger sensor. So the noise characteristic is better. You can't say "everything else being the same" in your statement but then have different sensor sizes, because everything ISN'T the same. The most important factor regarding noise isn't the same.

Well only if you fill the frame with your subject on each sensor. If you select aps-c crop mode on the 5ds and back up you should see the same level of noise as your subject is now spread across the same area as in the 7d2. The only real benefit you get over the 7d2 is more pixels.

So full disclosure here. I own the 5dsr and woukd not have bought it if i didnt think it was better. In fact i traded in my 5d3 to get it...no regrets.

I'll see if i can run some high iso tests with the 7d2 and 5dsr in aps-c crop mode using the same subject and see if there is any noticable difference.

 

[Larsskv]

5DS ... only. Everybody says it is great...

really? I have a friend who has it and she keeps whining about the supposedly terrible noise in higher ISO ranges, going so far as to label it unusable beyond ISO 1600. she said it was much worse than her 5D MKIII.

At a per pixel level, you are correct w.r.t. noise. 5D3 outperforms it.

So in good light / in a studio / on a tripod, the 5DS rigs deliver awesome detail and you get what you paid for.

But in poor light handheld, you may need to burn those pixels down to fight noise. So in that light, a 50 MP 5DS shot downsampled to 22MP compared against the 5D3 is -- depending on who you ask -- about a dead heat.

Spinning it another way, you could say the 5DS is a 5D3, but with a special feature: 2.5X the resolution in lower ISO.

I don't own a 5DS, but that's what various reviewers have shared when studying 5DS noise. I welcome this thread's members who have shot both to corroborate or rebut that notion.

- A

So the 5d3 does have larger pixels and therefore can capture more light compared to the background noise. Downsampling the 5ds will not change that. It will reduce the fine detail captured. In essence you cant create something that isnt there in the first place. The only way to get better signal to noise with smaller pixels is to reduce the noise floor. I dont believe they acheived that with the 50mp sensor.

In fact the pixels size on the 5ds is the same as the 7d2. Everything else being the same, both should have similar signal to noise in raw data.

That really makes no sense at all because that's not the way it works. It's the SENSOR size that counts. Yes the 5Ds and 7D2 have the same pixel size, but the 5Ds has a larger sensor. So the noise characteristic is better. You can't say "everything else being the same" in your statement but then have different sensor sizes, because everything ISN'T the same. The most important factor regarding noise isn't the same.

Well only if you fill the frame with your subject on each sensor. If you select aps-c crop mode on the 5ds and back up you should see the same level of noise as your subject is now spread across the same area as in the 7d2. The only real benefit you get over the 7d2 is more pixels.

The comparison that was debated, was between the 5DIII and the 5Ds. There should be no question that the 5Ds(r) has better high ISO performance, compared to the 5DIII or 6D, if you compare at similar output resolution/same print size. I have been very impressed by pictures taken with my 5Ds on higher ISOs. I think the colours are especially impressive. The attached image was accidentally taken at ISO 2000, because I didn´t check the exposure settings before I took the shot at 70 mm, (f/8 and 1/125 sek). I don´t have any good examples taken with higher ISOs yet.

I was really amazed how good the colour and noise behave in this image. Sure, if you look at 100% with no noise reduction, it is visible noise. With a little editing and downsized to 5000x3333 pixels, it could by some be mistanken for an ISO 100 shot. The attached shot is edited to taste, and saved at quality setting 70 in Lightroom.

 

[strykapose]

5DS R for me.

Bear Mountain Bridge by Sam Yee, on Flickr

 

[bdunbar79]

5DS ... only. Everybody says it is great...

really? I have a friend who has it and she keeps whining about the supposedly terrible noise in higher ISO ranges, going so far as to label it unusable beyond ISO 1600. she said it was much worse than her 5D MKIII.

At a per pixel level, you are correct w.r.t. noise. 5D3 outperforms it.

So in good light / in a studio / on a tripod, the 5DS rigs deliver awesome detail and you get what you paid for.

But in poor light handheld, you may need to burn those pixels down to fight noise. So in that light, a 50 MP 5DS shot downsampled to 22MP compared against the 5D3 is -- depending on who you ask -- about a dead heat.

Spinning it another way, you could say the 5DS is a 5D3, but with a special feature: 2.5X the resolution in lower ISO.

I don't own a 5DS, but that's what various reviewers have shared when studying 5DS noise. I welcome this thread's members who have shot both to corroborate or rebut that notion.

- A

So the 5d3 does have larger pixels and therefore can capture more light compared to the background noise. Downsampling the 5ds will not change that. It will reduce the fine detail captured. In essence you cant create something that isnt there in the first place. The only way to get better signal to noise with smaller pixels is to reduce the noise floor. I dont believe they acheived that with the 50mp sensor.

In fact the pixels size on the 5ds is the same as the 7d2. Everything else being the same, both should have similar signal to noise in raw data.

That really makes no sense at all because that's not the way it works. It's the SENSOR size that counts. Yes the 5Ds and 7D2 have the same pixel size, but the 5Ds has a larger sensor. So the noise characteristic is better. You can't say "everything else being the same" in your statement but then have different sensor sizes, because everything ISN'T the same. The most important factor regarding noise isn't the same.

Well only if you fill the frame with your subject on each sensor. If you select aps-c crop mode on the 5ds and back up you should see the same level of noise as your subject is now spread across the same area as in the 7d2. The only real benefit you get over the 7d2 is more pixels.

So full disclosure here. I own the 5dsr and woukd not have bought it if i didnt think it was better. In fact i traded in my 5d3 to get it...no regrets.

I'll see if i can run some high iso tests with the 7d2 and 5dsr in aps-c crop mode using the same subject and see if there is any noticable difference.

Oh you have both? Cool.