L Lenses for crop bodies

The lines are blurring because FF is drifting down into APS-C territory, not because APS-C is being elevated. I think that's partly why we're seeing more new EF non-L primes, and for that and other reasons, we won't see EF-S L lenses.
 
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You could always use an L-series lens on a crop body. The only gap is on the ultra-wide angle end of the focal range, so I don't see it being a huge issue.

There also aren't that many crop-factor bodies for pro/semi-pro in the lineup. L-lenses are more expensive and so would more likely be for pro/semi-pro photographers. Would you rather buy an EF-mount lens that you could use on all your cameras or an EF-S mount that you can only use on crop-bodies?

Also when you put an EF lens on a crop body you eliminate the corners which are generally the worst performing (optically) so while you lose angle-of-view you have generally better optical quality corner-to-corner.

These are just my thoughts, feel free to disagree.
 
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There are high quality lenses for crop. I know they might [not] have various weather sealing doodads but they still hold up pretty solidly; seriously just don't kick it around and it usually isn't a problem.
In the end, you should always take a lens on it's individual merits. A lot of the recent EF-S lenses like 15-85, 18-135 and new 55-250 are quite respectable for the price. At any higher price you start getting to a lot of asking from buyers like with the 17-55 vs. an EF/L lens for not much more, so I kind of see why there isn't much point in them pursuing high cost EF-S lenses.


Edit: always forget the word "not" lol
 
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Agree with Dufflover's points and adding these:

Canon only makes three prime wide "L" lenses anyway and none are what I would consider affordable. (14mm at about $2,300; 24mm at $1,700 and 35mm at $1,300). So it's not like they are giving full frame users a huge variety of wide L lenses.

Those lenses sell either to professionals with very specific needs or enthusiasts with lots of disposable income (probably more to the second category).

The universe of 7D users (doubt if any Rebel or 70D users would be investing in wide primes) interested in such lenses would likely be very small.

As others have pointed out, if you are talking about wide zooms, Canon already makes three that rival "L" lenses in optical quality: the ultrawide 10-22mm, the 15-85 and the 17-55. Alternatively, both Tokina and Sigma make excellent ultra-wide zooms for crop cameras. I'm partial to the Tokina 11-16 f2.8, which I own.

I would rather Canon make a 15mm prime (2.8, 3.5 or 4) in a consumer grade model, similar to their new 24mm 2.8 IS, but given that Canon recently had to cut the price of that lens, it may be that there just isn't a large market for wide primes in any format.
 
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koolman said:
As the lines between FF and crop continue to blur - and we are seeing very high performance crop bodies - I am hoping canon will invest in high quality lenses for crop bodies. Why not L lenses for crops ? There is no good wide angle prime lens options for crop (outside third party lenses) this is a pity.

You can pretty much consider the new 24mm and 35mm IS USM models "L" lenses in an optical sense.

No, they don't have the L weathersealing, nor are they built to withstand being run over by a truck, nor do they have the fastest of fast apertures... But does your application REALLY need all of that? Are you going to leave your camera out in the rain uncovered? Are you going to drop your lenses on the floor every day? Do you need an aperture so fast that often only the center of the frame is sharp and the depth of field is so small you can't keep two eyes in focus?

The new IS non-L primes are built about the same toughness as the 100mm f/2.8L Macro IS USM, and they have optical performance that matches the L lenses at the same aperture (check out DXOMARK for sharpness etc tests - who actually states they exceed the L lenses at same aperture in some cases). I fully expect a rollout next year of 50mm IS USM, 85mm IS USM, maybe even 100 or 135.

I don't see the advantage of creating an EF-S prime. Reason being, EF primes are compatible with EF-S, so just buy an EF prime at the focal length you want. EF primes are more compatible so a better deal.

Where EF-S needs the most help is in the zoom lenses because the typical ranges for EF lenses might not be as useful crop lenses - example, EF-S equivalents of the 16-35, 24-70, and 70-200.

For 16-35 range, EF-S has a very well built 10-22 f/3.5-4.5 which is similar in field of view. But, with the recent super deep price cuts, I would wager we will see a replacement next year when the 7D2 is released. Although the original 10-22 was great, a replacement could improve in terms of aperture (f/2.8 would be nice instead of the variable f/3.5-4.5) and sharpness. There is a slim chance they could add L branding to it.

For 24-70 range, EF-S has the 17-55 IS f/2.8 which has a very solid track record. Again, this lens has seen deep price cuts lately, indicating a new version will likely arrive with the 7D2. Improvements could include increased sharpness and contrast and updated IS. There is also a slim chance they could add L branding to this replacement as well.

For 70-200 range, EF-S has the 55-250 f/4-5.6 STM that was just released this year. This lens is a fantastic optical performer virtually on par with the 70-300L that costs 4x as much. But, it does have a plastic mount that is disappointing... Also, it is no match for the 70-200L f/2.8, but that lens appears to be one Canon will reserve as an expensive carrot to dangle for people to upgrade to full frame; also, it may simply be too large and heavy for Canon to consider an EF-S release for - but there is a slim chance they could launch one w/ the 7D2.

So, overall EF-S has actually got it pretty good. EF-S can use all of the excellent non-L and L primes. EF-S has all the major zoom ranges covered, one of which got an update this year and the other two will likely be updated next year. Not much really to complain about I would say, the "L" designation is simply a marketing tool, not a real specification. Thus, even though lenses like the 24 IS, 35 IS, 10-22, 17-55, and 55-250 STM don't have the L designation, doesn't mean they don't perform like an L optically. But if you really want that designation on all your lenses for the look of it, I would advise to upgrade to full frame.
 
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its just much easier to sell L lenses to FF body owners. if they can afford a FF body its almost 100% they will also afford an L lense one day. i also wish there were awesome wide angles for aps-c but i think producing a 15mm 1.4 lens (to get 24mm 1.4 "FF" effect) or equal is just extremly pricy. Also it would be really big and heavy.

most (most!) people use aps-c cuz they cant afford a FF body.

another reason i think is that there are tons of people who still run around with 18-55mm kit lens and are happy with it for instagram and what else. aaaand underage ppl probably wont have 1000$ to spend on an L lens opposite to the cheaper ef-s lenses which can be declared as bday gifts for example.

guess most sold lenses for aps-c are : 18-55mm kit, 55-250mm and 50mm 1.8 II
 
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koolman said:
As the lines between FF and crop continue to blur - and we are seeing very high performance crop bodies - I am hoping canon will invest in high quality lenses for crop bodies. Why not L lenses for crops ? There is no good wide angle prime lens options for crop (outside third party lenses) this is a pity.

L lenses for crop? What are you on about?

All L lenses can already be used with crop sensor bodies so what is the problem? Do you mean EF-S?

A wide angle for crop? EF-S 10-22mm f/3.5-4.5 USM

Standard zoom? EF-S 17-55 f/2.8 IS USM or 15-85 f/3.5-5.6 IS USM

The new EF-S 55-250 STM covers the telephoto range.

What's lacking?

Why would Canon make an L lens (something that represents the top of the line) that only work with something of the lower end of the product line? That don't make no sense! :o
 
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Cory said:
The Sigma 17-50 is an "L" lens for crop. The Canon 17-55 isn't.
:-* ;D 8)
I have owned Sigma 17-50, Tamron 17-50 and Canon 17-55 ... both the Sigma and Tamron do NOT even come close to optical performance, accurate AF speed or the build quality of Canon 17-55 f/2.8 IS ... but if I too was smoking some exotic stuff, I'd say I agree with you.
 
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The lines are blurring more on the crop side, and this has very little to do with sensor technology. What on crop can mach f/1.2 on FF? What on crop can match, in terms of IQ, 135/2 on FF? Do you think that a zillion mp crop sensor can make the 85/1.2 wide open on crop as good as the 135/2 on FF? Or the 50L on crop as good as the 85L at f/2 on FF?

About the lenses - it is a marketing thing. Canon wants you to buy an FF body and does not want to create an extensive line of EF-S primes. And they are right. The 17-55 has L glass inside but not the L built. The EF-S 60 has exceptional sharpness. But the latter cannot compare to the 100 macro on FF, L or not, both in speed and IQ. The Tamron 60/2 compares in speed but not in IQ. If you are demanding, you will be limited by the crop format. Just go FF, and you can even safe money.

BTW, creating quality EF-S lenses does make sense from pure IQ standpoint. High quality EF-S lenses would be better than EF lenses with the same FL and aperture. For example, the m43 system has quality lenses designed for that format, very often getting close to APS-C and FF, unless you want to open the lens more, then physics wins.
 
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Pi said:
The lines are blurring more on the crop side, and this has very little to do with sensor technology. What on crop can mach f/1.2 on FF? What on crop can match, in terms of IQ, 135/2 on FF? Do you think that a zillion mp crop sensor can make the 85/1.2 wide open on crop as good as the 135/2 on FF? Or the 50L on crop as good as the 85L at f/2 on FF?

About the lenses - it is a marketing thing. Canon wants you to buy an FF body and does not want to create an extensive line of EF-S primes. And they are right. The 17-55 has L glass inside but not the L built. The EF-S 60 has exceptional sharpness. But the latter cannot compare to the 100 macro on FF, L or not, both in speed and IQ. The Tamron 60/2 compares in speed but not in IQ. If you are demanding, you will be limited by the crop format. Just go FF, and you can even safe money.

BTW, creating quality EF-S lenses does make sense from pure IQ standpoint. High quality EF-S lenses would be better than EF lenses with the same FL and aperture. For example, the m43 system has quality lenses designed for that format, very often getting close to APS-C and FF, unless you want to open the lens more, then physics wins.

+1
 
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I thought of my 17-55mm f/2.8 as an L even though it wasn't branded that way. I actually miss it now that I'm on FF.

I agree with those who noted that we shouldn't get too hung up on branding. Even though I'm willing to spend probably more than I ought to for excellent lens performance, as an amateur people could interpret my red ringed and/or white bodied lens as conspicuous consumption. The same phenomenon results in the common comment when friends and others view my images: "wow, your camera takes great pictures." Yeah, thanks. I just hang it around my neck and it handles the rest.
 
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iron-t said:
I thought of my 17-55mm f/2.8 as an L even though it wasn't branded that way. I actually miss it now that I'm on FF.

I've just moved up to FF as well and looking at getting the 24-70 f2.8 II sometime next year. I know it doesn't have IS but isn't it a decent equivalent to the 17-55?
 
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Skywise said:
I've just moved up to FF as well and looking at getting the 24-70 f2.8 II sometime next year. I know it doesn't have IS but isn't it a decent equivalent to the 17-55?

The 24-105/4L IS on FF is a decent equivalent (slightly better, actually) to the 17-55/2.8 IS on APS-C. The 24-70/2.8L II on FF will be substantially better.
 
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neuroanatomist said:
Skywise said:
I've just moved up to FF as well and looking at getting the 24-70 f2.8 II sometime next year. I know it doesn't have IS but isn't it a decent equivalent to the 17-55?

The 24-105/4L IS on FF is a decent equivalent (slightly better, actually) to the 17-55/2.8 IS on APS-C. The 24-70/2.8L II on FF will be substantially better.
+1

There's really no comparing the 17-55 on crop to the 24-70 II on FF.
 
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neuroanatomist said:
The 24-105/4L IS on FF is a decent equivalent (slightly better, actually) to the 17-55/2.8 IS on APS-C.

Make that much better.

Also Canon's crop cameras have duller colors than their FF ones. The colors I am getting from my 24-105 are much better than form the 17-55 on a crop body. I am not sure if it is the lens or the body, or both, and it does not even matter.
 
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