Lots of Talk, Very Little Solid Information About Canon's Next Cameras

[AlanF]

It's about time that Canon releases an APS-C body without the Anti-aliasing Filter. In Canon's FF cameras it doesn't bother me, since is sharp enough but in APS-C, or at least on the 7D series the images are really mushy, unless you take them very close.

Appropriate sharpening can help significantly.

A crop from the 5DSR is just so much better than the same size from the 7DII that I sold mine. If you are using the full image from the 7DII or are not cropping much, it’s fine. But, if you do need to crop the image severely, the AA-filter loses detail. Sharpening does improve the acutance but it doesn’t restore lost detail.

 

[Ozarker]

But the disruption is the slow decline

I could probably find a more oxymoronic statement...but I'd have to look hard.

If you look at the market over time, DSLRs show the characteristic pattern for a mature/saturating market. MILCs are a slow evolution of that market. Canon sees that, obviously. They're adding MILCs to their ILC lineup, and also adding new DSLRs. There's no disruption of their DSLR lineup.

Truly, your understanding of market dynamics is dizzying.

Isn't this game fun?

Not really. I enjoy a challenge, and this isn't one, it's more like the New England Patriots playing a football game against a bunch of 5 year-olds on a Pop Warner team. But there, at least the 5 year-olds might learn something.

Neuro, you have no idea how much I enjoy reading your stuff. Please, never go away. Even if I were on the receiving end I'd have no choice but to laugh. ;D

 

[Ozarker]

"...it is often interpreted as "Canon needs to step up their game if they're going to survive

Interpreted as? Actually, there are people here who say just that. They've been saying exactly that for years. They are a known quantity here. There's no problem with saying it. The problem many have with them is that they continuously say they are going to "jump ship" and then stick around for years on end saying the same old thing. In other words they say it, but don't mean it. That is what annoys some. One has to wonder who the real fanboys are. Are they the happy customers? Or are the true fanboys the miserable wretches that keep hanging on even when they are so miserable. I vote for the latter. Those are the real fanboys... if "fanboy" is a derogatory term.

 

[Keith_Reeder]

I envy the sharpness, the latitude, the stabilization, the light sensitivity and the lighter form factors of the Sonys.

If you can't take stellar images with the Canon gear you've got now - it's not the gear's fault.

I’ll be selling everything come November and switching to Sony if they don’t step up their game

Nobody here really cares about what you might or might not do...

 

[Keith_Reeder]

If people are overthinking the importance of mirrorless, why has Canon itself stated that they will push into this market? Also, an interesting- and yet dubious- point.

Simply - and only - because it's a market, and one whichg Canon is bound to be interested in. Not because of any intrinsic "importance" of mirrorless as a technology.

 

[Keith_Reeder]

Yes, alas, it is all about clicks. I don't know how many times I click the "Report to Moderator" button to report trolls and posts that do nothing but insult users. Nothing ever happens.

Oh, it does: if you respond like-for-like to the trolls, Admin gives you a kick up the arse...

 

[Keith_Reeder]

Its entertaining (NOT) to read every response to

"Canon needs to step thier game up.."

with this crap:

"But oooh, your complaining, BUT THEY ARE #1"

Such a juvenile response in terms of thought. :

It's not remotely juvenile taken in the context of the asinine comments this fact is rolled out to addresss..

 

[Keith_Reeder]

Says a lot about me? Riiiiiiight Neero.

"BUT LOOK AT THE SALES!"

- Neero., The Common 'Always Correct' Comment Section Irritant

You can continue to b1tch about the answer (clearly you can) but it's no less true just because it's often repeated.

Tell you what - tell us why it's not a good answer to the interminable "Canon is doomed if..." posts...

 

[scyrene]

unless you take them very close.

What does this mean?

 

[Keith_Reeder]

The people looking for amazing, revolutionary camera releases and are constantly disappointed by "joke" launches can be divided into two types: those in search of technological improvements to improve photography, and those who are more interested in technology than photography.

Or, there's a third - heavily populated, and well-represented here - group: talentless hacks who can't take a good photograph for love or money, who have fooled themselves into thinking that some sort of as yet uninvented miracle camera will suddenly turn them into photographic gods...

 

[Keith_Reeder]

h but in APS-C, or at least on the 7D series the images are really mushy, unless you take them very close.

100% User error.

http://www.capture-the-moment.co.uk/tp/reports/time-for-the-farnes-again

All with my 7D Mk II.

Soft and mushy, my arse.

 

[ehouli]

It's about time that Canon releases an APS-C body without the Anti-aliasing Filter. In Canon's FF cameras it doesn't bother me, since is sharp enough but in APS-C, or at least on the 7D series the images are really mushy, unless you take them very close.

Appropriate sharpening can help significantly.

Hmmmm no, I don't think so, here are two samples I just did yesterday, one with the 7D II and one with 5D III, and I'm still amazed at what the 5D III can do. Both shots done with the 400mm f/4 DO Mk II and 2x TC Mk III. Even the 5D mk III seems to make a better light reading when in AV mode.

Both shots have no Sharpening other than the standard applied by Lightroom Classic CC. Just adjusted through dehaze, clarity, some saturation and color profile created for each camera.

7D II:

https://flic.kr/p/27BK6Vy

Crop:

https://flic.kr/p/27BKAjC

5D III:

https://flic.kr/p/LzqNzo

Crop:

https://flic.kr/p/27BKx4u

To me it seems that under some critical circumstances diffraction makes it really hard to get a sharp image with the 7D II. Let alone the AF that's also a long story :-X

h but in APS-C, or at least on the 7D series the images are really mushy, unless you take them very close.

100% User error.

http://www.capture-the-moment.co.uk/tp/reports/time-for-the-farnes-again

All with my 7D Mk II.

Soft and mushy, my arse.

Really? that's the same answer over and over again that canon fans give. Save your arse BTW.

 

[Keith_Reeder]

If you are using the full image from the 7DII or are not cropping much, it’s fine. But, if you do need to crop the image severely, the AA-filter loses detail. Sharpening does improve the acutance but it doesn’t restore lost detail.

c. 60% crop:
http://kazemisu.me.uk/images/170518/yh4.jpg

About 50%:
http://kazemisu.me.uk/images/050518/PN_IMG_5300_1_aff.jpg

50% again:
http://kazemisu.me.uk/images/180318/PN_IMG_4503_1_aff.jpg

 

[Ozarker]

h but in APS-C, or at least on the 7D series the images are really mushy, unless you take them very close.

100% User error.

http://www.capture-the-moment.co.uk/tp/reports/time-for-the-farnes-again

All with my 7D Mk II.

Soft and mushy, my arse.

Very nice photos, Keith. Of course, you are correct. One cannot buy or spec their way into the "great photo" club. It actually takes some skill. You have it.

 

[Keith_Reeder]

Really? that's the same answer over and over again that canon fans give. Save your arse BTW.

Yeah, really. I also shoot aircraft (http://kazemisu.me.uk/images/gnfi/gnfi_005.jpg, http://www.kazemisu.me.uk/images/ncl_270713/catalina_NCL_1.jpg, http://www.kazemisu.me.uk/images/ncl_270713/lancaster_NCL_BW_5.jpg), and your 7D Mk II examples are just utterly unrepresentative of what I get as a matter of routine.

These are very low shutter speeds, too - the Exif is in the images, something notably lacking in your "proof".

So unless you can rule out shutter speed problems, the wrong AF mode, atmospheric conditions, a dodgy lens, or a need for AFMA, user error it is...

 

[ehouli]

If you are using the full image from the 7DII or are not cropping much, it’s fine. But, if you do need to crop the image severely, the AA-filter loses detail. Sharpening does improve the acutance but it doesn’t restore lost detail.

c. 60% crop:
http://kazemisu.me.uk/images/170518/yh4.jpg

About 50%:
http://kazemisu.me.uk/images/050518/PN_IMG_5300_1_aff.jpg

50% again:
http://kazemisu.me.uk/images/180318/PN_IMG_4503_1_aff.jpg

Of course I've got some too but I have to be 4 - 6 mts away and no Teleconverter:

https://flic.kr/p/G4qx1M

But the amount of sharpening and noise reduction needs more work than with the 5D III.

 

[Mikehit]

h but in APS-C, or at least on the 7D series the images are really mushy, unless you take them very close.

100% User error.

http://www.capture-the-moment.co.uk/tp/reports/time-for-the-farnes-again

All with my 7D Mk II.

Soft and mushy, my arse.

What lenses did you use, Keith? I am going there next weekend.

 

[Durf]

Beautiful images Keith, simply stunning!!!! You make that 7D2 speak loudly!!!!!

I see you are using ACDSee Pro, I may have to look in to that as ON1 is really buggy and becoming less enjoyable to use lately....

 

[Loswr]

But the amount of sharpening and noise reduction needs more work than with the 5D III.

Of course it does, the 7D sensor is smaller and the pixel density is higher. And as Keith pointed out, AFMA, shutter speed, etc., need to be ruled out as causes of sharpness loss.

 

[AlanF]

If you are using the full image from the 7DII or are not cropping much, it’s fine. But, if you do need to crop the image severely, the AA-filter loses detail. Sharpening does improve the acutance but it doesn’t restore lost detail.

c. 60% crop:
http://kazemisu.me.uk/images/170518/yh4.jpg

About 50%:
http://kazemisu.me.uk/images/050518/PN_IMG_5300_1_aff.jpg

50% again:
http://kazemisu.me.uk/images/180318/PN_IMG_4503_1_aff.jpg

I am not saying you can't get great images with the 7DII. It was my workhorse for a couple of years and I had some great shots with it if which I am proud and really loved it. The 5DSR without the AA-filter is even better. What it means in practice is that you have to be about 10-15% closer with the 7DII to capture the same detail as you would with a 5DSR.