Magic Lantern on a 5D3 for stills?

[ahsanford]

Hey gang,

my 5D3 enters its third year of service. It's been terrific.

I was curious to see who out there is running ML on theirs, and specifically what the experience / upside has been for stills. I (perhaps mistakenly) think of ML as a tool for video folks, but I never shoot any and didn't give ML much thought.

But rather than pour through an exhaustive list of ML features at their site, are there any specific stills features you've used and would recommend? Any slick tools to assist focusing with MF lenses? Any upsides to general IQ, DR, etc.? Does the menu system offer the ability to tune more parts of the camera, or unlock any 1DX goodness (like spot-metering at any AF point?)

Besides the warranty considerations, are there any drawbacks to using it? I assume the risk of bricking the camera is small this far post-release, right? Does it chew through battery life faster?

If it helps peg what I might value in ML, I'm principally an available light shooter from 16-200mm: landscapes, travel, macro, candids, street, events and some very infrequent sports/wildlife opportunities. I typically don't do video, timelapse, astro or dedicated portraiture.

Just curious for your thoughts, thanks!

- A

 

[Marsu42]

my 5D3 enters its third year of service. It's been terrific. I was curious to see who out there is running ML on theirs, and specifically what the experience / upside has been for stills. I (perhaps mistakenly) think of ML as a tool for video folks, but I never shoot any and didn't give ML much thought.

That's 2 missed years for you, the stills features of ML are terrific - I'd esp. lost w/o the dynamic range expansion of dual_iso. The 5d3 is the prime ML development target, so this port is as stable as it gets.

 

[rpt]

my 5D3 enters its third year of service. It's been terrific. I was curious to see who out there is running ML on theirs, and specifically what the experience / upside has been for stills. I (perhaps mistakenly) think of ML as a tool for video folks, but I never shoot any and didn't give ML much thought.

That's 2 missed years for you, the stills features of ML are terrific - I'd esp. lost w/o the dynamic range expansion of dual_iso. The 5d3 is the prime ML development target, so this port is as stable as it gets.

+1

I use dual ISO and focus stacking in macros regularly. I only use ML for stills. It is very stable. Never had a crash.

A1ex has now added full resolution silent movies and I will update to the latest build soon.

 

[ahsanford]

I've never taken my macro work seriously enough to focus stack, but if there's a feature that makes it a more streamlined process, that would be great. I'll look into it.

Dual-ISO and Auto ETTR frequently get referenced. How slick (or finnicky) are they to use and tweak settings on the fly? Do you save those for more composed/patient shooting or can you run and gun with it like your normal 'triangle' settings of shutter/aperture/ISO?

Also -- any love for spot metering at an off-center AF point? I'd get ML just for that. I thought the 1D series's second DIGIC chip was metering intensive for exactly those sort of tasks, so I wonder if it's even possible on a 5D3...

- A

 

[Valvebounce]

Hi A.
It has focus trap, might help for manual lenses, I don't know, I don't have any. I have used it a couple of times, it seems good to me.

Cheers, Graham.

 

[ahsanford]

Hi A.
It has focus trap, might help for manual lenses, I don't know, I don't have any. I have used it a couple of times, it seems good to me.

Cheers, Graham.

Graham,

Is that only with LiveView, or is there some focus confirmation in the viewfinder?

- A

 

[Valvebounce]

Hi A.
Sorry, I only used it a couple of times early last year on my 7D and don't remember the finer details.

Cheers, Graham.

Hi A.
It has focus trap, might help for manual lenses, I don't know, I don't have any. I have used it a couple of times, it seems good to me.

Cheers, Graham.

Graham,

Is that only with LiveView, or is there some focus confirmation in the viewfinder?

- A

 

[tpatana]

For stills my pros/cons:

+Dual-ISO

-Boot-up-time ~2 seconds (instead of the ~0.2)

 

[lintoni]

Also -- any love for spot metering at an off-center AF point? I'd get ML just for that. I thought the 1D series's second DIGIC chip was metering intensive for exactly those sort of tasks, so I wonder if it's even possible on a 5D3...

- A

As part of Magic Lantern's wonderful array of RAW based exposure aids? Oh, go on then...

http://magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=12096.0#post_Spotmeter

Also dual-ISO, intervalometer, programmable bulb timer...

 

[ahsanford]

It's like finding spectacular sushi at the supermarket refrigerator section. It's like a traffic-free day in Los Angeles. It's like Firefly, Season Two.

Such things are not supposed to exist.

I think I need a moment...

- A

 

[mackguyver]

-Boot-up-time ~2 seconds (instead of the ~0.2)

Really? ML is something I've considered trying over the years, and thought it was all good with no downside other than the lack of warranty or whatever you want to call it.

A 2s boot time would frustrate me, though. Yes, I know I am spoiled...but that was my #1 frustration when going from film to digital, followed closely by waiting for the buffer to clear when shooting TIFFs. Yes, I am getting old, but I was cutting edge back in the late 1990s

 

[DominoDude]

A few of my findings from one of the latest builds (on a 7D, and not a 5D MkIII):
* Bricked the camera while out shooting the other day. Had to abandon the session and go home. Batteries recharged and did a new test yesterday - seems fine, but there's no solid event log to show me why it went tits up in the first place.

* As mentioned boot time, and time to revive the camera after stand-by, is something that stops you from quick shooting exactly when you want/need it.

* It's my feeling that it drains the battery a little faster (my battery is old, so I can't blame ML entirely).

* Recently my rear dial stopped working for changing EC, or if in M mode I can't change shutter time or aperture (whichever is assigned to it - tried both). I can move focus point with the rear dial without problem, and I can also browse through images with it. Really annoying "feature" that haven't been around earlier...
I might try to go back to some of the earlier builds to see if I can get rid of it that way. Haven't had the time to do that yet.

* Auto-ETTR - should be good, but, in ways I can't fully describe, I'm not as happy with it as I hoped I would be.

In all: It has some nifty features, but it's quirky.
Try it, it doesn't take much time to give it a quick check. You can always format the card to get rid of ML and go back to a vanilla config.

 

[mackguyver]

DominoDude, your post gives me even more pause about ML. I have no complaints with Canon's default configuration, and I don't find the ML pluses are enough to overcome the minuses for my uses. Bricking a camera in the field, slow start up and wake up times are complete nonstarters for me.

This is nothing against those of you who use it and have success with it, but I'm not interested.

 

[ahsanford]

DominoDude, your post gives me even more pause about ML. I have no complaints with Canon's default configuration, and I don't find the ML pluses are enough to overcome the minuses for my uses. Bricking a camera in the field, slow start up and wake up times are complete nonstarters for me.

This is nothing against those of you who use it and have success with it, but I'm not interested.

I'm torn, Mack. I really am.

I fawn over a working spot meter at any AF point, for of all things, candids, street and walkabout:

• I can't shoot manually as my lighting changes too often and the moment might be too fleeting for me to dial in the exposure.
• Focus/recompose has small DOF problems. This will work if I don't mind shooting around f/5.6 or narrower, which I don't always want to do.
• For some reason, I don't like the ergonomic hopscotch of AE lock or back button focusing to overcome this. I know it would work, but I prefer to drive my rig through the shutter button.

To me, spot metering at an off-center AF point + larger aperture work is the simplest implementation to nail something as it happens with an off-center subject (which comes up a lot).

Also, I shoot a lot of walkaround of high contrast items that I can't manage with multiple exposures, so dual ISO intrigues me.

But if there's a brick risk, or a chance of overcooking something from not running inside of Canon's 'safe' parameters, I have to ask myself how badly I want those features. Also, I generally love my Canon feature set, and I don't want to take my legs out on something I'm *not* unhappy with today -- if my control wheels / knobs stop working or run sluggishly under ML, it would be a no go for me.

- A

 

[Marsu42]

-Boot-up-time ~2 seconds (instead of the ~0.2)

A 2s boot time would frustrate me, though.

Yes, it prevents you from doing a cold start snapshot, but there's no way 'round it as the camera has to load the additional fw from the card. As I'm using ML for my whole Canon time, I've gotten used to it and cannot imagine the camera booting any faster anyway. If you suspect you'll need to do a spontaneous snapshot, simply leave it on, it's not like it's drawing a lot of battery power when the screen is off.

 

[mackguyver]

I understand and that's very different from what I shoot, so I can understand. I think bricking is rare, but DominoDude's description of a bricked but recoverable camera means that the camera is useless until you go home.

Also, the linked spot metering works well on the 1D X, but (assuming it's similar in ML) isn't a simple solution. It's still Spot, so unless you're focusing on something that's close to 20% gray, you need to use exposure compensation to correct the exposure. For people's faces, it works great, but for mixed subjects (white birds and dark birds, for example) it's not a huge help.

Back-button focus works great for me, but it did take a while to use it and there are plenty of people who aren't fans, so that might help.

The dual ISO, ETTR exposure, and intervalometer features seems the most useful to me, with the rest being somewhat specialized to certain types of photography. The focus stacking is the only other thing I would be interested in from what I see on their site. It may work well with some lenses but the 180L macro I use has heavy focus breathing, so it would change the framing too much for anything but the smallest subjects.

The DSLR Controller for iOS/Android also does a lot of this stuff, minus being free and needing a phone or tablet to be tethered.

 

[meywd]

Well, I have used magic lantern for around two years now, first on the 600D and now on the 5D3, no issues so far but I don't play much with it, I needed a couple of features that ML provided and I am still using these now, and I don't do video:

• Intervalometer
• Mirror Lock Up on timer
• 5+ Brackets (600D)
• Dual ISO
• Magic Zoom
• Focus Peak
• Auto ETTR
• Focus Stacking (didn't use it much though)

 

[Marsu42]

* Bricked the In all: It has some nifty features, but it's quirky.

I don't doubt your experiences, but the problem is that once ML is on a camera, the user might attribute absolute every problem to it, even if the problems would have happened otherwise as well. That being said, the 7d is a rather new port (the dual digic made some problems in the past) and might not be as rock stable as the 5d3.

I understand and that's very different from what I shoot, so I can understand. I think bricking is rare, but DominoDude's description of a bricked but recoverable camera means that the camera is useless until you go home.

If ML should ever crash, you can fix this by removing the battery and rebooting. A soft-brick only occurs if ML writes invalid values to Canon nvram, and I'm very, very positive this is very, very unlikely to happen nowadays and with ports as stable as 5d3. The main dev (Alex) is very concerned about a possible bad rep and actually booted another dev out of the project because he wouldn't agree to the "stability over all" guideline.

It's not like I've something to gain by selling ML, but take it from me as a 3y intensive ML user: This software is as stable as it gets, you can use it w/o any concerns whatsoever.

 

[ahsanford]

Awesome discussion guys -- just what I was looking for.

Marsu: you give me confidence that ML is a temporary tattoo and not a permanent one. I dig it.

Mack: Skin tones / mid-tones only on off-center spot metering is A+ to me. Maybe I should just buy a 1DX. :

I think I'm going to give ML a try before too long. Thanks, everyone.

- A

 

[yorgasor]

I like to play with old manual focus lenses. Magick Lantern's focus peaking is good for manual focus during video, but for still photos, I have the magnifier turn on 5x when I press the shutter halfway down. I have a much higher success rate that way than I ever did using the standard focusing screen. That feature alone is enough to convert me to ML. The built in intervelometer was another clincher (my 10 yr old Nikon D2x has a built-in intervelometer, why do I need a special hack to get one on my 5D3???)