Mirrorless cameras

[jkk1943]

With the introduction of two new full frame mirrorless cameras I am convinced that Canon does not intend to be a serious player in this market. Sony, Fuji and now Nikon are blowing Canon away. We should have known Canon would not be a player in this evolving market given its lackluster development of the cropped sensor M series. Decent bodies with a few 6.3 aperture kit zoom lenses and one prime pancake lens. After five years there are rumors about that Canon is developing a 1.4 50 mm prime lens. Wow, isn't that sensational. Once I get too hold to lug around my Canon 5d4 and 7D mk2 I am going mirrorless with Nikon or Sony

 

[Mikehit]

blah, blah, blah...boring Canon...blah, blah, blah.

Fuji are 'blowing Canon away'? That statement alone invalidates you post.

Are you saying your Canon does not meet your needs?
I will be extremely confident that by the time you are "too hold to lug around your Canon 5d4 and 7D mk2 " Canon will have something to match what Sony do. Or are you saying you will go SoNikon irrespective of what Canon do? Sounds a drastic pre-emptive decision to me.

 

[Loswr]

With the introduction of two new full frame mirrorless cameras I am convinced that Canon does not intend to be a serious player in this market. Sony, Fuji and now Nikon are blowing Canon away.

Yeah, go ahead and just totally ignore the fact that the EOS M series is the best-selling MILC line globally. Oh, you men the niche market that is FF MILCs. Got it. Don’t worry, when Canon enters that market you can come back and tell us who gets blown away.

 

[amattas]

Total geartographer here, and I'll be honest the Nikon announcements really caught my eye (far more than Sony cameras have) but I'm holding out to see what Canon announces before making any decisions. Here's why -

• The buffer on the Nikon Camera's is really small, and I have kids so I take a lot of rapid fires during their sports games, etc to get pictures I love.
• I don't own any Nikon glass and the Z mount line up doesn't have everything to fit my needs. Sure I can get an adapter for F lenses, but I have all EF L lenses right now.
• Some folks complain about the lack of a dual memory card but this doesn't bother me as much since I'm a hobbiest.
• On the Sony side I've tried out an a7r II and really struggled with the ergonomics of the camera and menu layout after being in Canon so long. I heard the ergonomics got a little better with the a7r III but I haven't tried that yet. Their mount is also inferior to what Nikon just announced, so if I'm going to invest in new glass outside of Canon it would definitely be in the Nikon S-Line lenses.

Now here's the big unknown for me, Canon has to make a decision, do they re-use the EF-M mount that exists today which is really similar to Sony's mount at the cost of reducing light into the camera, do they re-use the EF mount that they have today on their full frames at the cost of their mirrorless offering being a much larger camera than the competitors, or do they release a whole new mount (and if they do that maybe they'll go bigger than 35mm!)

Yes, I'm frustrated that its taken this long, I think mirrorless brings a lot of great new functionality that you don't get with a SLR, and if Canon doesn't get this right I'll be jumping ship, but I'll wait until the Z7MkII comes out to see if they address the buffer problem or Sony (although I don't necessarily trust them)

 

[jkk1943]

fuji is a small company and they have created a better selling more innovate mirrorless system than mighty Canon with all of its resources. Fuji has also created a full range of high quality well regarded fast lenses for their system. Check out the number of sales and reviews on B&H. The M system barely registers vis a vis Fuji and forget Sony and Nikon they are embarrassing Canon. Don't get me wrong Canon is a solid company they are just not innovative. They have still not created ff sensors that compete with Sony.

 

[amattas]

I wouldn't say they're not innovative, they're just slow. I think of Canon as Mercedes, Nikon as BMW, and Sony as a Hyundai Genesis (many years of experimentation with some great ideas along the way, but took a while to stabilize)

 

[jkk1943]

They definitely are slow but it is hard to say where they have been creative by comparison to Nikon, Sony or even little Fuji. Nikon DSLR's routinely get much better reviews by professional than their competitors. Canon M is a neat little camera especially the M5 and M50's. The problem is the lack of quality lenses. Good grief, who creates kit zoom lenses with max aperture of 6.3? The M system has been in existence for 5 years and they haven't even introduced a 50 mm equivalent yet. Canon should be embarrassed. I have too much invested in Canon lenses to change now but I will if the Nikon full frame system proves out.

 

[amattas]

If the Nikon system proves out, and Canon doesn't deliver anything worthy then I wouldn't hesitate, but I still feel OK sitting tight for another few months while the rubber hits the road.

 

[jkk1943]

blah, blah, blah...boring Canon...blah, blah, blah.

Fuji are 'blowing Canon away'? That statement alone invalidates you post.

Are you saying your Canon does not meet your needs?
I will be extremely confident that by the time you are "too hold to lug around your Canon 5d4 and 7D mk2 " Canon will have something to match what Sony do. Or are you saying you will go SoNikon irrespective of what Canon do? Sounds a drastic pre-emptive decision to me.

blah, blah, blah...boring Canon...blah, blah, blah.

Fuji are 'blowing Canon away'? That statement alone invalidates you post.

Are you saying your Canon does not meet your needs?
I will be extremely confident that by the time you are "too hold to lug around your Canon 5d4 and 7D mk2 " Canon will have something to match what Sony do. Or are you saying you will go SoNikon irrespective of what Canon do? Sounds a drastic pre-emptive decision to me.[/QUOTE


Check out B&H. Read the reviews. Check out the number of posts vs the Canon M system. Read the professional reviews. No one, no one that is not in the employe of Canon really believes the Canon M can even hold a candle to Fuji . Canon has even come out with a 50mm equiv for their M system and they are almost five years into the system. How about the M kit zooms with their blazing aperture range of f3.5 to 6.3. Canon has not taken mirrorless seriously, can you honestly debate that?

 

[Loswr]

fuji is a small company and they have created a better selling more innovate mirrorless system than mighty Canon with all of its resources.

Please show your evidence that Fuji MILCs outsell Canon’s MILCs. The question is rhetorical, you can’t because the data show that Fuji barely makes a blip in the overall market share figures.

Piece of free advice, when you make some statements that are complete bullish!t, it destroys your credibility and renders the rest of your statements mainly irrelevant.

Please go back to your troll hole now, the adults would like to have a conversation.

 

[Mikehit]

Check out B&H. Read the reviews. Check out the number of posts vs the Canon M system. Read the professional reviews. No one, no one that is not in the employe of Canon really believes the Canon M can even hold a candle to Fuji . Canon has even come out with a 50mm equiv for their M system and they are almost five years into the system. How about the M kit zooms with their blazing aperture range of f3.5 to 6.3. Canon has not taken mirrorless seriously, can you honestly debate that?

So if you definition of 'blow Canon away' is based on the spec sheet, then I can't argue with that because I have never used one.
But one of my measures of a tool (which is all a camera is) is how well does it sell. Some supreme tools do not sell well because of the high price or quality (Global kitchen knives of Lambourghini cars). But if a product is not competing at the consumer end, you have to ask 'why?'
Fuji are competing at the general consumer so why are they not outselling Canon? If your response is 'Canon has a lot of people with big lenses who do not want to sell' that is a fair point but my response would be 'the technical superiority is not enough to overcome that factor, in which case I question how important that technology is to the act of taking photographs'.
Fuji have been making cameras as long as Sony have. Why are they not outselling Sony?

 

[docsmith]

I honestly had the opposite reaction to Nikon's announcements. I get excited about gear and was getting excited about the Nikons, but looking over the spec's, it was "meh". These are cameras, not magic devices (well, ALL cameras are magic devices). Nothing that really blew me away compared to a DSLR.

Now if there are specific features you want, sure, great.

Once I get too hold to lug around my Canon 5d4 and 7D mk2 I am going mirrorless with Nikon or Sony

Why? Ignore the hype, the Z7 is 180 g lighter than the 6DII. The lenses are about the same weight. So, 180 g is honestly that big a difference to you? It is 305 g lighter than the 5DIV.

If these are big enough differences to you, why wait, go mirrorless now.

 

[Kit.]

fuji is a small company

Actually, Fujifilm is several times bigger than Nikon.

 

[Ozarker]

With the introduction of two new full frame mirrorless cameras I am convinced that Canon does not intend to be a serious player in this market. Sony, Fuji and now Nikon are blowing Canon away. We should have known Canon would not be a player in this evolving market given its lackluster development of the cropped sensor M series. Decent bodies with a few 6.3 aperture kit zoom lenses and one prime pancake lens. After five years there are rumors about that Canon is developing a 1.4 50 mm prime lens. Wow, isn't that sensational. Once I get too hold to lug around my Canon 5d4 and 7D mk2 I am going mirrorless with Nikon or Sony

Hmmmm... you must have the spec sheet and tried the camera already. What did Canon do concerning the mount?

SMH

 

[Ozarker]

Yeah, go ahead and just totally ignore the fact that the EOS M series is the best-selling MILC line globally. Oh, you men the niche market that is FF MILCs. Got it. Don’t worry, when Canon enters that market you can come back and tell us who gets blown away.

Reading his post, it seems he thinks Canon has already released the cameras.

 

[Ozarker]

• On the Sony side I've tried out an a7r II and really struggled with the ergonomics of the camera and menu layout after being in Canon so long. I heard the ergonomics got a little better with the a7r III but I haven't tried that yet. Their mount is also inferior to what Nikon just announced, so if I'm going to invest in new glass outside of Canon it would definitely be in the Nikon S-Line lenses.

Something is seriously wrong with you. Don't you know Sony is the "Gold Standard"? Sony absolutely has the best ergonomics, best mount, best lenses, best menus, and takes the best composed photos of all time. When Jesus comes back he's going to ask for a Sony.(sarcasm)

 

[amattas]

It looks like the Canon R is going to be a nice starting point, it seems to have some specs that are better than my 5DMKIV and some that are better, time will tell I suppose!