Mirrorless Wish

[riogrande100]

I have a 5D MKII and also a Lumix G3 and Sony Nex5n. I use these 3 cameras when travelling and fid alwasy the 5D is the king of IQ. Even though the sensor is 4 years old, it easily beats out the G3 and Sony!

I think that Canon could easily build a mirrorless camera around the 5D Mark II sensor, and it will be the boss of the mirrorless world! It will even given the m9 a rund for its money, all they need to do is combine with the DiGic 5!!!

The only issue would be lenses for the system! But if canon use the Leica model for Flange range they could really have small lenses!

I dream but would love to see a FF mirrorless that is affordable!

p.s. both G3 and Nex5 in daylight offer great IQ!

 

[ghosh9691]

The 5D2 sensor would need significant modification if Canon were to use it with non-retrofocus lens designs. Particularly, the micro-lenses on the sensor would need to be revised to ensure that adequate light was being received in the corners. So, it would prove to be quite expensive. Also, in order to make the camera small, Canon would need a new lens mount and lenses that have a shorter flange to focal plane distance and EF & EF-S lenses will not be usable without a large adapter.

I think they might go with the G1X sensor (or may be even APS-C sensor) in the mirrorless and will introduce a new lens mount/lens a la Nikon with their J & V series.

 

[Loswr]

I think they might go with the G1X sensor (or may be even APS-C sensor) in the mirrorless and will introduce a new lens mount/lens a la Nikon with their J & V series.

I think Canon is closely watching the Nikon J- and V-series sales. From what I've read, those sales figures are nothing to write home about, so it seems doubtful that Canon feels market pressure to release a competitor.

 

[bycostello]

there is no reason why we can't have mirroeless.... there have been before in nikon.... the cynic in me tells me they are keeping it in their armory so we have to upgrade at some future date...

 

[psolberg]

I think they might go with the G1X sensor (or may be even APS-C sensor) in the mirrorless and will introduce a new lens mount/lens a la Nikon with their J & V series.

I think Canon is closely watching the Nikon J- and V-series sales. From what I've read, those sales figures are nothing to write home about, so it seems doubtful that Canon feels market pressure to release a competitor.

he's asking for a FF mirrorless system. the J and V are selling very well but they are intented for non professional folks. so nikon, like canon has actualy NO competitor to FF mirrorless systems. In fact, they don't even have a competitor to APSC systems which is the more likely scenario.

neither canon nor nikon will make an FF mirrorless system anytime soon. it would be far to expensive. combined with the fact they don't want to kill their profitable low end dslr market, the possibility of an APS-C nex competitor is next to nothing. I see nikon doing that before canon because canon has the lion share of the market and it is more affraid to change than the rest.

 

[wickidwombat]

I want canon to come out swinging and bring the APS-H sensor back as their first mirrorless
it will leave the competition gasping in the cloud of dust and it will take them years to catch up.
An APS-H mirrorless would probably be able to use both EF and EF-S glass with some tricky in camera cropping down to the EF-S image circle to get rid of the vignetting it could also boost frame rate in crop mode since tit has to process less pixels.

 

[Mt Spokane Photography]

I went to our local photography store, and looked at several of the mirrorless cameras yesterday, thinking of getting one to replace my wife's G11, and came back discouraged.

There was nothing that could be considered ultra wide angle, many of them have no viewfinder at all, and, though the bodies are fairly small, as soon as they add a zoom lens, they get much larger. The Nikon J1 wasn't much for the price, the V1 was nicer, but way over priced, with little in the way of lens selection.

I am beginning to think Canon was wise to stay out of that market. I'll go back and look at the G1X when it comes out, but I think its also too expensive.

For now, I'll just stay with a G11 for my wife. The S100 looked to beat them all for those who want quality in a small body.

 

[wickidwombat]

I went to our local photography store, and looked at several of the mirrorless cameras yesterday, thinking of getting one to replace my wife's G11, and came back discouraged.

There was nothing that could be considered ultra wide angle, many of them have no viewfinder at all, and, though the bodies are fairly small, as soon as they add a zoom lens, they get much larger. The Nikon J1 wasn't much for the price, the V1 was nicer, but way over priced, with little in the way of lens selection.

I am beginning to think Canon was wise to stay out of that market. I'll go back and look at the G1X when it comes out, but I think its also too expensive.

For now, I'll just stay with a G11 for my wife. The S100 looked to beat them all for those who want quality in a small body.

have you had a look at the fuji X10, I am loving mine
funnily enough they rate the battery life at 220 shots
at the concert I shot over 800 off 1 battery and still have 1 bar on the life by the end
I filled the 16GB card with RAW files before i drained the battery.
nothing ultra wide angle though but 28-112 is not a bad range for the little beast and the f2 to f2.8 lens is really sweet

 

[Bennymiata]

I wouldn't be at all suprised if Canon releases an interchangeable lens camera using the sensor and body of the new GX-1.
Larger sensor than most of the mirrorless cameras, yet almost APS-C sized, and the EF-S lenses would work well with it too.

The Fuji X-Pro1 looks really nice, but the price is just stratopheric!
You could almost buy a 5D MkII for around the same money!

That's what bugs me about some of these mirrorless cameras, the price of them!
A small DSLR is much better value IMHO.

 

[ghosh9691]

Larger sensor than most of the mirrorless cameras, yet almost APS-C sized, and the EF-S lenses would work well with it too.

No, EF-S lenses will not work with the G1X body. The back of the lens needs to be about 44mm away from the sensor, therefore using an EF or EF-S mount will make the body the same size as a DSLR body in terms of depth. Any Canon mirror-less, regardless of sensor used, will need to use a new mount, or use the Leica M-mount (or similar small flange distance mount). And the larger the sensor, the more challenging will be the sensor design because it will need to account for oblique angles of incidence when used with wide-angle lenses.

 

[Hillsilly]

There was nothing that could be considered ultra wide angle...

Did you have a look at micro four thirds? There's the Panasonic 7-14mm and the Olympus 9-18mm. Although neither are cheap, so you'd have to be really comitted to buy one.

I've done a complete 180 on this. I like mirrorless cameras, and a few months ago I would have happily joined into the "Canon must release a mirrorless camera or the sky will fall down" brigade. And if you look at the camera sales outside of the US, mirrorless cameras are making up a noticeable and growing percentage of sales. I think that even in the US, there is a growing interest in smaller cameras.

But now I'm thinking, who really cares if Canon doesn't release one? There's enough variety out there already. If they released one with EF & EF-S compatibility - great! But otherwise, nobody needs a "Canon" mirrorless camera. If Canon believe that their R & D budget is better spent on DSLRs and associated lenses and that their efforts shouldn't be diluted across a range of products, I'm not going to second guess them. I'd much rather have them do one thing well than several things at an average level.

 

[pdirestajr]

So many people on this forum struggle over the decision to buy EF-S lenses for their APS-C cameras because of the possibility of someday "upgrading" to the promise land of FF... But then you guys want a whole new system of lenses to have to invest in? I really don't want to have to buy more lenses! I think what Canon is doing with their G1X, and what Fuji has in their x100 & x10 are great solutions for that 2nd/ 3rd camera to mess around with.

 

[marekjoz]

I see a place for mirrorless Canon rather somewhere closer to Leica M9 than Nikon and Sony toys.
With the new line of great lenses (4, 5 at start). Compatible with EF, EF-S with adapter (no matter how big).
Big fps, high MP, FF or APS-H, no AA, video with AF.

 

[wickidwombat]

I see a place for mirrorless Canon rather somewhere closer to Leica M9 than Nikon and Sony toys.
With the new line of great lenses (4, 5 at start). Compatible with EF, EF-S with adapter (no matter how big).
Big fps, high MP, FF or APS-H, no AA, video with AF.

We can only hope

 

[dr croubie]

I think they might go with the G1X sensor (or may be even APS-C sensor) in the mirrorless and will introduce a new lens mount/lens a la Nikon with their J & V series.

I think Canon is closely watching the Nikon J- and V-series sales. From what I've read, those sales figures are nothing to write home about, so it seems doubtful that Canon feels market pressure to release a competitor.

As I just wrote in another post, mirrorless is going to kill (or at least severly wound) low-end dslr sales. Nikon has gone the route of not cannibalizing their own sales, and in the process has come up with the J1, that is practically useless (small sensor, low iq/iso/dr, few lenses). I wait with baited breath to see how long before they just pull theplug and build an aps-c or bigger (or just join the m4/3 consortium).

Also, if you want a mirrorless with native-EF-mount, ... uh, ... why? You'll end up with something as ugly and thick as this.
Olympus brought out their micro-4/3 cameras, and brought out adapters to mount regular 4/3 lenses as well as OM-mounts.
Natively-thin, can take older lenses via adapter. Smart.

 

[psolberg]

Larger sensor than most of the mirrorless cameras, yet almost APS-C sized, and the EF-S lenses would work well with it too.

No, EF-S lenses will not work with the G1X body. The back of the lens needs to be about 44mm away from the sensor, therefore using an EF or EF-S mount will make the body the same size as a DSLR body in terms of depth. Any Canon mirror-less, regardless of sensor used, will need to use a new mount, or use the Leica M-mount (or similar small flange distance mount). And the larger the sensor, the more challenging will be the sensor design because it will need to account for oblique angles of incidence when used with wide-angle lenses.

you're 100% right, but like sony, they can have an adapter for the dslr lenses. Although I agree that making a compact camera with a large sensor is very hard and expensive. I would much rather see canon go m4/3s and push prices down. while the NEX is nice, the size of APSC lenses make it obscene.

 

[Drizzt321]

I think that the problem that's going to happen is everyone wants these really small, thing mirrorless cameras...but the lenses are (relatively) big! I mean, good quality glass has to be a certain size which means the lenses will be larger and heavier than those built-in ones that extend out of a camera when it's turned on.

 

[Hillsilly]

Quality glass doesn't have to be big. Leica lenses are quite small compared with similar Canon lenses and they are probably almost as good. The size of the lens is probably one of the many considerations that designers take into account. Canon designers seem to prefer bigger lenses (For each focal length, I think our lenses are biggest! Yay!). I assume it makes other design problems easier to solve?

There are also a lot of small APS-C lenses around. Have a look at the new Pentax 40mm for their APS-C K-01. It's tiny. I think the whole mirrorless debate would probably be less relevant if Canon released some pancake EF-S primes.

 

[dr croubie]

I've been wonering about that pentax K-01. It still has the flange distance of a K-mount, 46mm or whatever it is, but there's no mirror in the space between that and the sensor.
It's perfectly possible/plausible to create lenses that protrude into the empty space where the mirror should be, like EF-s lenses protrude further in, but in a ridiculously longer way, say 20-30mm. All they need to do is stop some idiot trying to mount such a lens on his K-mount dslr (like canon has made it physically impossible to mount an EF-s on a 5D).
In that way, you could create "pancake" lenses that only protrude 1cm from the flange or so (manual focussing is going to be fun there), but aren't really true pancakes because most of the optics are inside the mirror-box (and then have better IQ than a normal pancake, which have lots of compromises).

Still, i'd much rather a short m4/3 or NEX-style mount, with an adapter to mount EF/s lenses on, and put a pancake on that, I've still got the option to mount DSLR lenses via adapter if i wanted.


ps, how much of the extra size in a canon-lens is better glass, and how much is space for the autofocus motor? My takumar 50/1.4 is (just) smaller than my niftyfifty EF 50/1.8, the glass goes all the way to the barrel, and the whole barrel is less than 5mm thick of two bits sliding inside each other.

 

[Neeneko]

You know, there is no particular reason they have to make a mirroless camera thin/small. There are more advantages to mirrorless then simply 'thinner'.

There are already 'mirrorless' MF cameras that are pretty thick, and FF machine vision cameras that are essentially tethered mirrorless cameras.

I think if Canon tried to enter the 'smaller & cheaper' mirrorless market, well, plenty of other companies are already there, and I doubt they would try to dip into the MF market,... but FF? That would be something no one else is doing and if they filled it with enough other 'pro' features they could potentially really sell mid-range people on this class of camera since, at this point, the only arguments for DSLRs pretty much come down to 'optical viewfinder' and 'tradition'.. one of those will probably go away as small LCDs get better (a real boon for low light photography or other times where you actually want to see what the senor sees) and the other is just silly.