More features coming to Canon EOS R5 in future firmware [CR2]

[koenkooi]

[...]I don't think there is much to add in terms of photography use, other than and increased shooting speed and the latest AF features. [...]

There are many things, mostly software based, that can be added to make photography easier and better Most of these already exist in non-Canon bodies:

• IBIS + GPS based star tracker, Pentax had that years ago
• User defined focus limits, handy for bird-on-perch and camera traps
• Have the user set the focus points for a focus stack, let the camera work out the number of steps and increments
• Zebras for stills
• Don't separate detection and focussing, if you detect an eye, have the focus system focus on the eye, not on the hair hanging in front of it
• Allow blanking both the EVF and LCD at the same time, this is for the people that demand "absolutely no video features!!!eleven!!!!"
• Make sending pictures to a phone/tablet take less than 3 clicks and less than 10 seconds
• Allow optionally dropping down to 11-bit or even 10-bit for ES to reduce rolling shutter for really fast faction. Like the M6II does in burst mode
• Allow going up to 14-bit in ES, at the expense of rolling shutter
• More than 3 custom modes with R5/R3 style controls
• Allow renaming custom modes
• Allow sharing of custom modes
• Allow multi-step toggles for a single button, like dropping into burst mode
• When the buffer is full, slow down to a consistent fps, not pause-and-burst

 

[ata bora]

YAPODFC.

Seems you’re another of those forum warriors who knows more about making and selling cameras than the company that’s led the market for 20 years. Because that makes sense.

I guess you are one of the old people trying to make a speech to everyone in this forum.

 

[neuroanatomist]

I guess you are one of the old people trying to make a speech to everyone in this forum.

Lol. I'm not the one telling Canon how to run their business...or else.

I did find it rather amusing that you held up the Z9 as an example of why Canon users are 'being forced to switch to other brands', given that Nikon has hemorrhaged market share for the past few years meaning if people are switching, it's not to Nikon but from Nikon.

 

[JackDallas]

Canon released firmware v1.8.1 for the Canon EOS R5 last week. The big feature added was Canon’s first implementation of “pixel-shift” called IBIS High-Resolution shooting. The initial impressions of this feature weren’t all that positive, but that may get better over time. We have been told that further firmware updates are coming. It was suggested

See full article...

 

[ata bora]

Lol. I'm not the one telling Canon how to run their business...or else.

I did find it rather amusing that you held up the Z9 as an example of why Canon users are 'being forced to switch to other brands', given that Nikon has hemorrhaged market share for the past few years meaning if people are switching, it's not to Nikon but from Nikon.

Of course, the market leader is Canon. This is not something to discuss. You too, Canon brand has created a situation that is too obsessive. Whether you like Nikon as a brand or not, it is necessary to give Caesar's due. The Z9 is a good camera for its price and features. Also, nothing is eternal.

 

[InchMetric]

The update bricked my R5. It\'s going back to Canon for service.

 

[ata bora]

The update bricked my R5. It\'s going back to Canon for service.

I'm sorry for you, I hope it gets sorted soon.

 

[neuroanatomist]

Of course, the market leader is Canon. This is not something to discuss. You too, Canon brand has created a situation that is too obsessive. Whether you like Nikon as a brand or not, it is necessary to give Caesar's due. The Z9 is a good camera for its price and features. Also, nothing is eternal.

Agreed on the Z9 – excellent features and value. I suspect Nikon is motivated by their poor market success (so far) in mirrorless. The 1 system was a failure (also in spite of being a great system, including the only waterproof ILC setup in which I was very interested and if it was available today, I'd buy an AW 1 kit). Canon took the lead in the Japanese MILC market away from Sony last year, while Nikon didn't make the top three brands in that segment. So I certainly expect Nikon to release good cameras at very good prices, in an effort to regain market share (used to be >40%, as of the most recent data they're at ~13%).

Canon, as you say, leads the market. Dominates it, in fact, with nearly half of cameras sold annually bearing their badge, given that 20 year history of market leadership their total installed base is probably in the range of 70-80% of all ILCs in use today. So when you make comments like, "...things don't work that way anymore on the user's side, price and performance force many users to switch to different brands," your opinion does not match the available facts.

Of course nothing is eternal. But please don't toss out Kodak and Nokia, because while they are they are exceptions that prove the rule, they are just that...exceptions among the thousands of long-running, successful businesses. In fact, if Nikon's sales continue following their recent trend, it may be Kodak, Nokia and Nikon. Fortunately for Nikon their Precision Equipment division is doing well, in fact it is now their largest division, a distinction their Imaging group used to hold.

 

[JackDallas]

While I was interested in the possibilities of the new pixel shift feature being added with firmware v1.8.1 on my R5, my first impression is that held by others here. The ability to up-res an image to allow for extreme enlargement was of very limited use for me but the possibility of extending my ability to crop into a picture could be of benefit. My test images using the IBIS pixel shift feature showed two weaknesses. First, even slight movement of the subject rendered blur, and static edges showed pixel-patterned artifacts. I understand that JPGs may be the only practical file type as super-res RAW images would have a severe impact on buffer writes to media and storage limitations. I'll withhold final judgment until v2.0 where I hope for some practical use beyond indoor studio shots. Canon needs to work on dealing with motion as even tripod-mounted landscapes will have some slight movement. Perhaps they could use some lower or adjustable count of images rendered to speed up the process. For now, I will use my CRAW 45mp shots and look forward to a fix in the future.

 

[ata bora]

Agreed on the Z9 – excellent features and value. I suspect Nikon is motivated by their poor market success (so far) in mirrorless. The 1 system was a failure (also in spite of being a great system, including the only waterproof ILC setup in which I was very interested and if it was available today, I'd buy an AW 1 kit). Canon took the lead in the Japanese MILC market away from Sony last year, while Nikon didn't make the top three brands in that segment. So I certainly expect Nikon to release good cameras at very good prices, in an effort to regain market share (used to be >40%, as of the most recent data they're at ~13%).

Canon, as you say, leads the market. Dominates it, in fact, with nearly half of cameras sold annually bearing their badge, given that 20 year history of market leadership their total installed base is probably in the range of 70-80% of all ILCs in use today. So when you make comments like, "...things don't work that way anymore on the user's side, price and performance force many users to switch to different brands," your opinion does not match the available facts.

Of course nothing is eternal. But please don't toss out Kodak and Nokia, because while they are they are exceptions that prove the rule, they are just that...exceptions among the thousands of long-running, successful businesses. In fact, if Nikon's sales continue following their recent trend, it may be Kodak, Nokia and Nikon. Fortunately for Nikon their Precision Equipment division is doing well, in fact it is now their largest division, a distinction their Imaging group used to hold.

You know that Canon is not just a camera and lens equipment manufacturer. In addition, Canon maintains a large user presence in the fields of sports, press, journalism, etc., apart from the end customer. It managed to keep its sales figures at a high level during the pandemic period, which further strengthened its position.

 

[neuroanatomist]

You know that Canon is not just a camera and lens equipment manufacturer.

Of course. Canon's imaging group comprises only ~20% of their revenues, and the cameras and lenses that are discussed here are only about 60% of that (i.e., 13% of their top line). Nikon's imaging group comprises about 1/3 of their revenues (and all of that is 'photography' cameras), down significantly from a few years ago.

In addition, Canon maintains a large user presence in the fields of sports, press, journalism, etc., apart from the end customer. It managed to keep its sales figures at a high level during the pandemic period, which further strengthened its position.

Canon actually lost out quite a bit there, because some major players (e.g. AP) switched to Sony, reportedly due to financial incentives offered by Sony. I think Canon is shifting a bit to focus more on the enthusiast and non-journalism professional market (e.g. wedding photographers), due to the dramatic decrease in the number of photojournalists over the past few years. Also, since Sony copied Canon's white paint, Canon no longer stands out at sporting events.

 

[Marphoto]

Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice...

Sorry CR, I don't believe a thing that Canon has to say. Any way you slice it the recent FW "update" was a joke.

 

[neuroanatomist]

Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice...

Sorry CR, I don't believe a thing that Canon has to say. Any way you slice it the recent FW "update" was a joke.

You do realize that CR is Canon Rumors, not Canon Reports, right? Canon said nothing before releasing the update.

 

[ata bora]

Of course. Canon's imaging group comprises only ~20% of their revenues, and the cameras and lenses that are discussed here are only about 60% of that (i.e., 13% of their top line). Nikon's imaging group comprises about 1/3 of their revenues (and all of that is 'photography' cameras), down significantly from a few years ago.


Canon actually lost out quite a bit there, because some major players (e.g. AP) switched to Sony, reportedly due to financial incentives offered by Sony. I think Canon is shifting a bit to focus more on the enthusiast and non-journalism professional market (e.g. wedding photographers), due to the dramatic decrease in the number of photojournalists over the past few years. Also, since Sony copied Canon's white paint, Canon no longer stands out at sporting events.

"Also, since Sony copied Canon's white paint, Canon no longer stands out at sporting events." That was nice.

 

[fr34k]

61 Full-Frame Stacked BSI CMOS Sensors,

I think seeing a stacked-like sensor in an R5 priced body is going to be fairly unlikely, although highly appreciated. If you look over to the devil's company and their competitor camera (also an "R5"), they don't sport stacked tech. An R5 II with stacked sensor is going to be a bombshell, just like the R5 was. I would be somewhat doubtful there as stacking is really expensive. On the other hand I can see the R1 having a global shutter as I consider that one as a "money is no object" camera.

• Allow optionally dropping down to 11-bit or even 10-bit for ES to reduce rolling shutter for really fast faction. Like the M6II does in burst mode
• Allow going ip to 14-bit in ES, at the expense of rolling shutter

This I'd like to see, but Canon (as often said) is taking a more simplistic approach and would like to reduce clutter. I would however appreciate a toggle in the camera when shooting photo or video in RAW:

• 14bit -> 30ms Readout
• 12bit -> 15ms Readout
• 10bit -> 7ms Readout

A genuine question I have is which hardware upgrades would a R5 II have over the original to make it worthwhile upgrading?

In my case, as long as they're not going crazy with MP and stay at 45 (maybe 50?) because I'm an avid hybrid shooter (but for macro and wildlife so the R5 C is not an option) and it has "decent" improvements like a hybrid tilty/flippy screen, more res on EVF (HDR pls!) and LCD (brighter!), digital hot-shoe sound input, I'm good as I'm planning to gift mine to my father. His two are a 5Diii and an R7. Since he's into macro, rolling shutter is not an issue, but e. g. at family gatherings eye AF is an absolute joy and he only has a bright wide angle lens down to 24mm so it's a hassle indoors with a cropped sensor. That way I can make two people happy (me and my dad) at the same time and he doesn't need to spend money on a new bright wide angle lens. [There are more reasons, this is one...]

Additionally, when I got all my RF gear I looked in depth into the other brands (~end 2021) and determined that Canon is the way to go for me. Therefore Canon has to mess up big time for me to jump ship (devil's advocate, yellow competitor) and as I'm a fan of FF (R7) and not having the integrated vertical grip (R1 (?), R3) [I also prefer my bodies << 1kg], I'm pretty much forced, ain't I?

R5 + 100L -> A DREAM [1.4x, super sharp, fast AF AF (sic!)]
R5 + 100-500L -> A DREAM [super sharp, extremely light]
R5 + 85 1.2L -> A DREAM [super sharp, bokeh]
R5 + 24-70 f2.8L -> A DREAM [fast, quasi-parfocal and virtually breathing free, very sharp]
R5+ 70-200 f2.8L -> A DREAM [sharp, light and soooo small]
[...]

Canon very much knows their stuff and I'm still standing firm that the RF platform was the right choice for me, so R5 or R5 II. The 5 series is very much iconic for a very good reason -> it's a supreme compromise between functionality, size and cost. Canon will have had +4 years to come up with something that makes it worthwhile for me to upgrade and I bet they've found more than I could imagine. Until then the more they will put into the R5, the more I can hand down (and use myself in the meantime).

 

[Jack Douglas]

^^This. My observations from years of being on this forum are that people want cameras packed with the features they personally want, and they want Canon to give them away for a song.

"Canon needs to put all the R1 features I dream of but can't afford into the R6III and it needs to cost $2500, or else they're not competitive and everyone will switch brands and Canon is d00med."

It's not just this forum, it's everywhere. Some people need to be exposed to what life was truly like in the past and consider how good we have it overall.

 

[Czardoom]

Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice...

Sorry CR, I don't believe a thing that Canon has to say. Any way you slice it the recent FW "update" was a joke.

Canon didn't say anything. This seems to be an unfortunately common misconception or misinterpretation. People read or see on Youtube a discussion of rumors. Within a short time, these rumors become interpreted as things said or announced by Canon. Canon does not deal in rumors. Any disappointment, or anger, should go towards the correct culprit - those reporting the rumors.

No doubt this thread, an s is already fairly obvious, will lead to disappointment when the next firmware update comes out - and any subsequent firmare updates occur. They will almost certianly be far less than people think. ALready people are speculating what the R5 II will be - and they are almost certainly over-estimating that as well. Just like DSLRs, after a couple generations, advances will come in small increments, in my opinion.

So don't blame Canon for the over-the-top, and in some cases ridiculous predictions and rumors regarding the R5 and other cameras, when they don't materialize.

 

[entoman]

"We have been told that further firmware updates are coming. It was suggested that there would be 2 more feature updates for the Canon EOS R5 before the end of 2023. With the final version being 2.0."

OK folks, if you could choose just two "feature updates" what would you want?

Realistic suggestions please, not bug fixes or features that need new hardware, just 2 new features that will work with existing hardware.

Here are my top 2 choices:

• pre-capture RAW buffer with ES (capture of previous 20 frames at 20fps)
• focus limiter (to constrain minimum and maximum distances, which would prevent hunting and dropping onto backgrounds)

 

[entoman]

Canon didn't say anything. This seems to be an unfortunately common misconception or misinterpretation. People read or see on Youtube a discussion of rumors. Within a short time, these rumors become interpreted as things said or announced by Canon. Canon does not deal in rumors. Any disappointment, or anger, should go towards the correct culprit - those reporting the rumors.

I don't think it's quite as straightforward as that. Canon puts out teasers before new cameras are launched, so it's logical to assume that they also "leak" tidbits of information about firmware upgrades. Their purpose in doing so would be to generate excitement and publicity. Obviously, a whole mass of *additional* stuff gets added by the rumour-spreading fraternity, based on wish-lists and general expectations. But rumours, I believe, often start life as deliberate leaks.

 

[koenkooi]

"We have been told that further firmware updates are coming. It was suggested that there would be 2 more feature updates for the Canon EOS R5 before the end of 2023. With the final version being 2.0."

OK folks, if you could choose just two "feature updates" what would you want?

Realistic suggestions please, not bug fixes or features that need new hardware, just 2 new features that will work with existing hardware.

Here are my top 2 choices:

• pre-capture RAW buffer with ES (capture of previous 20 frames at 20fps)
• focus limiter (to constrain minimum and maximum distances, which would prevent hunting and dropping onto backgrounds)

IBIS auto-level, I’m almost always one degree out of level. For macro that doesn’t matter, but waterside family pics need a level horizon