More Specifications & Images of EOS 5D Mark IV

[Ozarker]

The frustration and the people with just a few posts coming in and creating an account to voice their opinions like myself is mainly due to the fact that we all have quite an investment in Canon glass while we are stuck with non-native solutions because the native solution provider can't deliver..

Can't deliver what? Oh, what you personally want. News flash: Canon doesn't care what you personally want. They care about making the most profit they can, which often means finding the lowest common denominator feature set that is sufficient to induce a sizeable fraction of the target market to buy the camera while keeping production costs as low as possible. Honestly, Canon doesn't care if you like the camera, their market research has done a good job of predicting the necessary feature set to drive popularity relative to other options. The fact that Canon has been the ILC market leader for well over a decade, and that their lead is growing, suggests they do a very good job of providing the features that will saitsfy the majority of their user base.

Nothing makes snowflakes melt faster than logic and reason, especially when it comes to business and economics.

 

[Loswr]

The frustration and the people with just a few posts coming in and creating an account to voice their opinions like myself is mainly due to the fact that we all have quite an investment in Canon glass while we are stuck with non-native solutions because the native solution provider can't deliver..

Can't deliver what? Oh, what you personally want. News flash: Canon doesn't care what you personally want. They care about making the most profit they can, which often means finding the lowest common denominator feature set that is sufficient to induce a sizeable fraction of the target market to buy the camera while keeping production costs as low as possible. Honestly, Canon doesn't care if you like the camera, their market research has done a good job of predicting the necessary feature set to drive popularity relative to other options. The fact that Canon has been the ILC market leader for well over a decade, and that their lead is growing, suggests they do a very good job of providing the features that will saitsfy the majority of their user base.

Sure, Blackberry had the same idea. Look at where they are now.

Almost all companies have the same idea. Some are just better at it than others. For example, BB topped out at ~20% global smartphone market share, Canon is close to 50% global ILC market share.

When you can show some tangible evidence that Canon is making the wrong decisions, come back and let's talk. Meanwhile, 'I don't want this camera' is pretty meaningless.

 

[rrcphoto]

however you could say that nikon FINALLY managed to do that right. how many years did nikon not?

The word 'do' is dubious. They bought a lovely sensor. I suppose, to their small credit, they implemented it very well.

- A

well it took them two tries to get it right.

people say that nikon updates quickly... they had to .. the D800 and D600 releases were disasters.

 

[applecider]

Maiaibing,

2 stops of high iso improvement is a little much to expect I'd think. A real 1/2 stop or slightly more such that we all could see the difference would make me pretty happy.

 

[K]

Not sure why, but Canon doesn't take advantage of current technology for I/O ...This stuff has been out with specs for long enough that it could have been implemented unless the 5D4 was designed years ago.

Two areas -

The SD card. It should have been UHS-II compatible. This allows high speeds and backward compatibility. Save money by using old cards, or buy the latest and greatest for speed.

CF is good, because CF is pretty fast as is - been around a while and not too costly. CFast is very expensive and not widely used. It's almost proprietary. XQD that Sony uses is faster, and a better platform - but also rare and expensive. Such costs almost beg the innovation of a built-in SSD for DSLR's with SD-card for removable. CF didn't have that issue in the early days, as it was a mainstream card format that competed with others across many different applications and devices. In this day and age, what mainstream equipment is using CFast? The mainstream, almost completely standard removable format is the SD card.

Next,

USB3 speed is good, but why the old connector? Why not use the new USB-C connector? It is smaller, more reliable, less prone to problems and is the newest tech with the most speed. On a space-cramped platform like a DSLR, it would make sense to go to this smaller connector. This is going to be a $3,300+ device. Why not offer up the fastest tethering possible? It's also backward compatible with old USB standards, so no harm to any legacy users.

Canon went through the redesign of moving the name plate to make space because all the I/O is cramped. Seems like USB-C was the solution....


I happy it has USB3 for the speed for tethering which I use, but the USB3 connector is annoying and more fragile, without offering any benefits due to its form factor / size.

 

[9VIII]

All Canon needs to do is update the sensor in the 5Ds and they'll have the best landscape/portrait body on the market (and arguably already do without updating).

The only point where I see weakness in that strategy is that, just maybe, Canon shouldn't have combined the 1D line. Given the longstanding popularity of the 1DsMkIII, if portrait photographers actually do want the 1D body design then maybe there really should be more than one 1D on the market.

 

[JoeDavid]

Cool! I hope Canon has someone monitoring this website. It sounds like only me, Eldar, and maybe a couple more people will be buying this camera so no need for all of that marketing crap. If you believe the BS on this forum they'll only have to make 4 or 5 cameras, sell them to us directly, and be done with it! :

 

[Ozarker]

As someone quite new to this site and photography in general I have one thing I don't understand about the new 5D Series model:
Why doesn't it have the flip screen of the cheaper models like my 70D? I find this option really helpful in alot of situations and truely wonder: Why did they omit it? Do more expirienced photographers not like this feature?

Tilty-flippy screens, for one reason or another, have been thought of as a consumer (soccer mom / hockey dad / millenial selfie) sort of photographic need that serious photogs don't need.

Pros / skeptics / older photographers have for a long time said that they saw it as a risk -- it was flimsy and could break, it could threaten weather sealing, they'd have to baby their rig with such a feature on it, etc.

But three things happened:

1) Video in SLRs took off
2) The consumer-grade versions of these things showed a great track record in the field of holding up well
3) People with brains realized if you don't want tilty-flippy, you can just leave it locked down and use it like your prior (rigid screen) camera.

Now, I'd say a good 75% of this forum wants a tilty-flippy. I have little doubt that it will be near the top of my 'gripe' poll with these 5D4 leaked specs.

- A

Good post Sanford. Old men with cranky knees like I have really like the flip screen feature.

To the OP: There are a lot of us who'd have been happy with the screen on the 5D mark IV.

There are bunches on the other side of the issue too. I also had a 70D and absolutely loved the feature. I've also missed DPAF which is also extremely useful on a tripod with the camera in live view.

Maybe on the next iteration of the 5D series we will see it. People say it is mainly for video guys. Nope. It is extremely handy on a tripod too, whether the tripod is set very low or very high, it is a great feature.

The 5D Mark IV gets a touch screen this time. maybe next time around it will flip and rotate. I sure hope so. I'll be 3-5 years older by then with even crankier knees.

 

[K]

Maiaibing,

2 stops of high iso improvement is a little much to expect I'd think. A real 1/2 stop or slightly more such that we all could see the difference would make me pretty happy.

I think so too. The last 4 Canon DSLRs showed about 1/3 to 1/2 stop increase in ISO performance. And in my opinion comparing photos side by side - closer to 1/3 improvement really. 1/3 stop is hard to tell apart from previous generation, and in most cases the difference is just that minimal. Requires comparing various scenarios and photos and pixel peeing them.

DR increase is what Canon needs. They caught up some, but still quite behind. At least we know this generation of Canon sensors is out of the pathetic 11 stop range, and into the respectable 13 stop range. While they aren't Exmor level, 13.x stops of DR is quite a lot and a potent boost. Again, most photography doesn't need that much DR, and shadow lifting is still ugly no matter what. But Canon now has more DR if we need it. Such extreme DR scenarios really require HDR no matter what the Sony trolls tell you. In the 13-15 stop realm, it is pushing some stylistic limits. Photos just leave the realm of being photos and become more of a graphic art by boosting shadows and maintaining so much highlight. If that's what you want, go for it. But I don't care for such unrealistic images. The web is saturated, pun intended, by these kind of surreal images of what should be realistic landscapes. Tons of low-ISO DR helps no one who needs to photograph at common ISO's of 400-1600.

Short of it all, it is nice to have - but still overrated.

 

[ahsanford]

The only point where I see weakness in that strategy is that, just maybe, Canon shouldn't have combined the 1D line. Given the longstanding popularity of the 1DsMkIII, if portrait photographers actually do want the 1D body design then maybe there really should be more than one 1D on the market.

I've been saying this for some time. People with $6k burning a hole in their pocket shouldn't have to choose between 50 MP *OR* a 1D feature set.

- A

 

[unfocused]

...Requires comparing various scenarios and photos and pixel peeing them...

Now that's an image I will have a hard time erasing from my brain!

 

[Deleted member 7828]

I second whoever requested information about whether this camera will have an AA filter.

Actually, what WOULD be awesome is if this "Dual Pixel Raw" thing was actually a method of potentially removing false colors in post, therefore negating the need for an AA filter in the first place? In other words, a way to control AA strength without the need for hardware. Yeah, I know, keep dreaming. : I suspect it will be tied more to DR latitude in editing. But is it a nice thought or what...

 

[Loswr]

Canon went through the redesign of moving the name plate to make space because all the I/O is cramped.

Was that why? Or was it to put the remote triggering port in a location more amenable to use of an L-plate? Maybe this is the 'new feature never seen on a dSLR that will be convient for photographers'?

 

[JohnDizzo15]

Let me preface what I am about to say by stating that I was a perfectly happy Canon shooter for well over a decade prior to several years ago.

Not going to speak to what the fate of Canon will be as none of us really knows.

What I can speak to though, is what I see around me as well as my own situation. Amongst my group of photo buddies (about 12 of us), there used to be 10 Canon guys and 2 Nikon. All of the pros in the group still shoot Canon (several considering the transition away). However, they have also all since incorporated a Sony body into the bag whether it be for stills, video, or a combo of both. The bulk of the money in the group over the last 2-3 years has been spent on equipment from companies other than Canon. All of the hobbyists in the group have completely ditched DSLR and moved to Sony and Fuji (this includes me).

While I still personally use some Canon glass adapted to my new systems, I only have four Canon branded lenses left with the other three EF mount ones being Sigma Art and Contemporary lenses. I have held off on selling off the last of my Canon branded glass (and refusing to invest in Sony glass) in hopes that the 5D4 would be convincing enough for me to try out another Canon DSLR. Based on the preliminary info being released, I will not be trying it out. This also seems to be the consensus in the group. However, two of the pros may still be adding one to the kit as they are embedded in the ecosystem for their work.

Regardless of what is happening to Canon and the rest of the market, this is what has happened amongst the 12 of us. For reference, we all have closets that contain 20-40k (all of which used to be in Canon for most of us) in gear so I'd say we are all pretty serious about buying stuff and are members of an important segment for any camera to consider.

I also have a buddy that runs a small rental shop who has mentioned to me on several occasions that the number of Canon body rentals he's been sending out has steadily shrunken compared to several years ago. The glass is still doing fine, but the bodies being rented have mostly been Sony. Not quite sure what this tells us, if anything, but still indicative some type of shift in the market.

Another thing to note, all of my buddies who are wedding shooters have noticed an increase in Sony gear when there is another shooter there for video or stills when they are doing the other.

Canon has been great over the years. But it just no longer makes the most sense for many of us. I am not opposed to buying back in since I am not generally a brand loyalist and have no qualms about switching when needed. But the truth is, I have to be truly compelled to do so. Right now, I (as well as my buddies) are not.

 

[ashmadux]

So let me get this straight-

5d3- home run, pro mainstay, beast of a camera

5d4- upgrades ALL areas, most certainly will beast


Noise in the crowd= "we wont buy it!"



There is something truly wrong with this thread.

 

[Lurker]

...Requires comparing various scenarios and photos and pixel peeing them...

Now that's an image I will have a hard time erasing from my brain!

So this is the new feature never seen in a DSLR?
We no longer have to tune into CR to get P!$$ in our ear, the camera will do it for us.
A wonderful innovation to get people out in the field using the camera rather than sitting behind a computer.

 

[Loswr]

Regardless of what is happening to Canon and the rest of the market, this is what has happened amongst the 12 of us. For reference, we all have closets that contain 20-40k (all of which used to be in Canon for most of us) in gear so I'd say we are all pretty serious about buying stuff and are members of an important segment for any camera [manufacturer] to consider.

Here's the thing...individuals with $20-40K of photo gear in their closets (and I am in that group) are likely a pretty unimportant segment for camera manufacturers to consider. Which segment is more important - 10,000 people who spend $30K, 100,000 people who spend $8K, or 3,000,000 people who spend $1K?

 

[ahsanford]

Not going to speak to what the fate of Canon will be as none of us really knows.

What I can speak to though, is what I see around me as well as my own situation. Amongst my group of photo buddies (about 12 of us), there used to be 10 Canon guys and 2 Nikon. All of the pros in the group still shoot Canon (several considering the transition away). However, they have also all since incorporated a Sony body into the bag whether it be for stills, video, or a combo of both. The bulk of the money in the group over the last 2-3 years has been spent on equipment from companies other than Canon. All of the hobbyists in the group have completely ditched DSLR and moved to Sony and Fuji (this includes me).

Great post, thx.

Not surprised. 'Groups of photo buddies', meetups, local photography clubs, etc. are perfect incubators to stoke interest in gear by trying/loaning/'here, give it a go, you try it', etc. They also have a more 'present' feeling of keeping up with the Joneses, becuase it's not a dude on the internet raving about his Fuji, it's Dave, your buddy, with a rig you can see / fool around with / get interested in, and you know and trust Dave.

These sort of circles are exceptionally fertile ground for Sony and Fuji to do what they do, so your experience makes perfect sense.

I am in a different bucket of enthusiast who wants to build up inside of one ecosystem and not migrate, not need to sell off gear or carry two brands, not need to juggle two different rigs with different menu systems and button layouts, etc. I like to keep it simple and focus on shooting*. In short, I don't lust for new/better gear, I lust for demonstrably new/better gear in my chosen ecosystem. Slow and steady, no brave leaps of faith or full conversions, no hoarding of 2-3 brands.

*One approach is not better than the other, of course. Others find remarkable inspiration / challenge / reward in trying lots of new stuff. Do what you do and you won't go wrong.

- A

 

[JohnDizzo15]

So let me get this straight-

5d3- home run, pro mainstay, beast of a camera

5d4- upgrades ALL areas, most certainly will beast


Noise in the crowd= "we wont buy it!"

There is something truly wrong with this thread.

I don't think anyone is doubting that it is going to be a beast of a camera.....for what it is. I personally am 100% certain that for those who absolutely need it for their work, it will be great.

Problem is, the market has now been exposed to other viable alternatives from companies that have a very different approach that offer different value for different types of shooters. Let's face it though, there is a significant chunk of the market that no longer needs slight incremental bumps of the reliable devices they're using.

 

[wockawocka]

All Canon needs to do is update the sensor in the 5Ds and they'll have the best landscape/portrait body on the market (and arguably already do without updating).

The only point where I see weakness in that strategy is that, just maybe, Canon shouldn't have combined the 1D line. Given the longstanding popularity of the 1DsMkIII, if portrait photographers actually do want the 1D body design then maybe there really should be more than one 1D on the market.

Agreed. I remember seeing somewhere that after the 4 is out there'll be a very quick refresh and if they can iron out some of the niggles, such as the buffer size and unload times I'll hold fire for that instead as the 5DSr is phenomenal.