New Type of Camera Coming from Canon Ahead of Photokina [CR1]

[Talys]

I read "new style" to mean a new form factor. And while I can't think of specific model names, it seems to me radically new camera form factors don't have a history of doing very well. Maybe that's why, for all it's tech innovations, Sony went with what's basically a 1970s SLR form factor for the Alphas. Just because you re-do the insides, doesn't mean you need a completely new and "futuristic" body design.

The 1970's want their hard edges back. All it does is make all those edges and corners wear faster if you actually use your camera =\

The 70's want back their jingling chrome eyelet camera strap loops too. Hey guys, my camera compensates for its shutter being silent by the camera being noisy

 

[RGF]

It's a large sensor interchangeable lens cell phone, Harry Film Edition. Comes packaged with Fairy Dust and delivered by your own personal flying unicorn.

Do you mean a joint venture w Apple to produce a Canon iPhone? Perhaps Apple purchased Canon which is why Warren Buffet invested in Appple?

 

[HarryFilm]

It's a large sensor interchangeable lens cell phone, Harry Film Edition. Comes packaged with Fairy Dust and delivered by your own personal flying unicorn.

Do you mean a joint venture w Apple to produce a Canon iPhone? Perhaps Apple purchased Canon which is why Warren Buffet invested in Appple?

---

Coincidentally, Steve Jobs sometime around 2005 was having ACTUAL TALKS in the boardroom of Apple asking board members as whether or not BUYING Canon outright for their colour laser printing technology AND for their precision optical systems technology was a good idea.

From a technical point of view, I understand why they passed on the digital printing technology (a correct decision I might add!) as I had heard in a rather roundabout way that Jon Ives (i.e. chief of Apple product design) state that hardcopy PAPER printing was a dead end and that small high pixel count cameras on portable products were going to be the "Next Big Thing!"

Apple then passed on the chance to buy Canon outright for a few years ...BUT... I have heard on the grapevine of product engineering sources that Apple is AGAIN taking a hard look at Canon for it's precision optics used in CPU production, Motherboard fabrication and quality control AND for it's now SUPERIOR super-low-light capable sensors. Apple has been using Sony sensors for a while now and recent restrictions caused by Sony Sensor production issues has hit Apple hard from a product backlog point of view and they are thinking about taking ALL forms of CPU production AND camera sensor AND lens production FULLY IN-HOUSE !!!

Buying Canon OUTRIGHT would let them do that AND by rebranding DSLR/Mirrorless Canon cameras and lenses with Apple logos, it would let them serve the imaging pros to a new level. Apple APS-C and Full Frame Mirrorless Cameras mated to FULLY IN-HOUSE high end CPU production using Canon precision optics would DEFINITELY MAKE SENSE from a technology point of view and since Apple can EASILY BUY ALL OF Canon for about $47 Billion US with a 15-to-20 percent share price premium, I think it makes product technology sense for Apple to do that!

I have ALSO HEARD on the grapevine that Apple is looking to BUY OUTRIGHT a company called "MarkForged" aka www.markforged.com and using POSSIBLY newly-purchased Canon optics and QA-control married with MarkForged-sourced high-precision 3D carbon fibre, ceramic and metal printing to make a Fast and "Relatively Inexpensive Price Point" APPLE-branded Metal/Plastic/Ceramic 3D Printer for the worldwide 3,500,000 engineers who could afford to buy Apple-branded desktop and professional versions for between $1500 to $25,000+ US! One thing that I have heard that Jon Ives (Apple design chief) wants in 3D printing, is the addition of multi-colour 3D printed interiors, surfacing and finishing and with Canon's multi-colour inkjet and colour laser print technology mated to MarkForged 3D printers such corporate purchases WOULD DEFINITELY FACILITATE such desires!

In my estimate, total market value for such products is about $5.5 Billion per year to as much as $35 Billion US per year for the 3D printers themselves and LIKELY about a SUSTAINED $60 to $80 Billion per year for the plastic, metal and ceramic powder consumables sales PLUS an Apple Store-sourced 3D printable design templates purchases income of likely a SUSTAINED $35 Billion US per year, so it's maybe as much as $140 Billion U.S. PER YEAR of GROSS INCOME coming from 3D printed products for Apple which is NOTHING TO SNEEZE AT !!!!

Top-notch EASY-TO-USE Apple design and production software married with FAST AND PRECISE MarkForged 3D printing hardware mated to Canon inkjet/colour laser print and precision optics technology would be the NEXT KILLER PROFESSIONAL PRODUCT from Apple !!!!

SO THERE! AGAIN, YOU HAVE HEARD IT HERE FIRST !!!!!!!!!!

 

[fullstop]

all i expect from "innovative canon" is a slightly updated xc-10 type body with EF mount. which of course should already have been on the original xc-10. "exciting new gear" from canon is usually exactly 1 generation/level behind expectations.

smartphone with aps-c sensor will not happen for physical size reasons.
canon "medium format" is very unlikely for economical reasons. very limited market niche and strongly established competitors owning it.

 

[Quarkcharmed]

Medium mirrorless format with totally incompatible lens lineup, yay. EF becomes FAIL, Focusing Anamorphic Interchangeable Lens.

 

[jolyonralph]

I have ALSO HEARD on the grapevine that Apple is looking to BUY OUTRIGHT a company called ...

Aha, so now your motivations here are clear.

 

[ewg963]

Hmmmmmm very interesting and exciting... Time will tell. 8)

 

[jolyonralph]

I'm wondering about that patent we saw for a light field camera last week. It was called out as being a quad pixel patent, but it was actually a light field camera.

That would certainly qualify as something totally new, no one has made a light field camera using dual or quad pixels.

Not entirely true, processing the 5D IV images with DPP gives *some* kind of focus adjust using dual pixel.

Remember the Lytro had to use 100 pixels (approx) on the sensor to get a single 'light ray' corresponding to a pixel on the finished image. 4 sub-pixels isn't going to give the ability to do more than very slight focus adjustment.

 

[scyrene]

Coincidentally, Steve Jobs sometime around 2005 was having ACTUAL TALKS in the boardroom of Apple asking board members as whether or not BUYING Canon outright for their colour laser printing technology AND for their precision optical systems technology was a good idea.

I know everything you post here is nonsense, but did Apple have the resources to buy Canon back then? It's the richest company in the world (more or less) NOW, but 2005 was long before even the iPhone - does anyone have the figures? I wouldn't be surprised if Canon was as big as or bigger than Apple in those days.

 

[unfocused]

Coincidentally, Steve Jobs sometime around 2005 was having ACTUAL TALKS in the boardroom of Apple asking board members as whether or not BUYING Canon outright for their colour laser printing technology AND for their precision optical systems technology was a good idea.

I know everything you post here is nonsense, but did Apple have the resources to buy Canon back then? It's the richest company in the world (more or less) NOW, but 2005 was long before even the iPhone - does anyone have the figures? I wouldn't be surprised if Canon was as big as or bigger than Apple in those days.

Oh that's just the tip of the nonsense iceberg.

... hardcopy PAPER printing was a dead end...

That would be the same "hardcopy paper printing" that allowed Canon's office products division to offset losses in its imaging division during the meltdown of the point and shoot market. There were several years when Canon's office products division was profitable while the imaging division was suffering losses. One reason why diversification is a smart move for a company like Canon.

...by rebranding DSLR/Mirrorless Canon cameras and lenses with Apple logos...

More nonsense

...make a Fast and "Relatively Inexpensive Price Point" APPLE-branded Metal/Plastic/Ceramic 3D Printer for the worldwide 3,500,000 engineers who could afford to buy Apple-branded desktop and professional versions for between $1500 to $25,000+ US!...multi-colour 3D printed interiors, surfacing and finishing and with Canon's multi-colour inkjet and colour laser print technology mated to MarkForged 3D printers...Top-notch EASY-TO-USE Apple design and production software married with FAST AND PRECISE MarkForged 3D printing hardware mated to Canon inkjet/colour laser print and precision optics technology would be the NEXT KILLER PROFESSIONAL PRODUCT from Apple !!!!

A jumble of mixed-up nonsense from someone who clearly has no idea what he is talking about. Or, even what 3D printers do.

SO THERE! AGAIN, YOU HAVE HEARD IT HERE FIRST !!!!!!!!!!

Yes, we have heard another stinking pile of nonsense.

 

[criscokkat]

all i expect from "innovative canon" is a slightly updated xc-10 type body with EF mount. which of course should already have been on the original xc-10. "exciting new gear" from canon is usually exactly 1 generation/level behind expectations.

smartphone with aps-c sensor will not happen for physical size reasons.
canon "medium format" is very unlikely for economical reasons. very limited market niche and strongly established competitors owning it.

I actually think something between 35mm and medium format could happen. If Canon more or less keeps the EF mount (by either using the EF mount or creating a new mount with an adapter that keeps a very wide throat) you could create an upsized sensor for your high end range.

It does *not* need to be something that sells very many units to have a very large impact of the entire line. 90% of the full frame L lenses would cover something up to 42mm. This type of sensor could also have a big impact with stabilization as you can capture something at 35mm full frame but have extra play to apply stabilization techniques using all of the bigger than 35mm sensor areas. The impact of Canon being able to say "We can go larger than 35 mm with the lenses you already own, and by the way we have lenses that are even better than that now" cannot be overstated. Even if you have no need for a sensor that large or want to pay the premium to get it, the thought that one day it will be cheaper or even standard will convince people to invest in the Canon ecosystem over competitors.

With the current Sony emount they have reached that limit by locking themselves in with the throat size they have set. The advantage of the company going first is the ability to get out ahead of everyone and capture market share with the new product. The advantage of the company going last is the opportunity to create a more nuanced product that appeals to a wider audience, or offers some features that make the new product even more compelling than the product that went first. I think Canon is going to add something this time that is out of the box to cement their place on top in the mirrorless world very quickly.

Going bigger than 35mm is one option that would fit that bill nicely.

 

[Loswr]

Coincidentally, Steve Jobs sometime around 2005 was having ACTUAL TALKS in the boardroom of Apple asking board members as whether or not BUYING Canon outright for their colour laser printing technology AND for their precision optical systems technology was a good idea.

I know everything you post here is nonsense, but did Apple have the resources to buy Canon back then? It's the richest company in the world (more or less) NOW, but 2005 was long before even the iPhone - does anyone have the figures? I wouldn't be surprised if Canon was as big as or bigger than Apple in those days.

In 2005, Apple's market cap was in the high 20's (billions of $), Canon's was in the low 30's.

But since when have facts or reality concerned Harry in the slightest?

 

[nchoh]

all i expect from "innovative canon" is a slightly updated xc-10 type body with EF mount. which of course should already have been on the original xc-10. "exciting new gear" from canon is usually exactly 1 generation/level behind expectations.

smartphone with aps-c sensor will not happen for physical size reasons.
canon "medium format" is very unlikely for economical reasons. very limited market niche and strongly established competitors owning it.

I actually think something between 35mm and medium format could happen. If Canon more or less keeps the EF mount (by either using the EF mount or creating a new mount with an adapter that keeps a very wide throat) you could create an upsized sensor for your high end range.

It does *not* need to be something that sells very many units to have a very large impact of the entire line. 90% of the full frame L lenses would cover something up to 42mm. This type of sensor could also have a big impact with stabilization as you can capture something at 35mm full frame but have extra play to apply stabilization techniques using all of the bigger than 35mm sensor areas. The impact of Canon being able to say "We can go larger than 35 mm with the lenses you already own, and by the way we have lenses that are even better than that now" cannot be overstated. Even if you have no need for a sensor that large or want to pay the premium to get it, the thought that one day it will be cheaper or even standard will convince people to invest in the Canon ecosystem over competitors.

With the current Sony emount they have reached that limit by locking themselves in with the throat size they have set. The advantage of the company going first is the ability to get out ahead of everyone and capture market share with the new product. The advantage of the company going last is the opportunity to create a more nuanced product that appeals to a wider audience, or offers some features that make the new product even more compelling than the product that went first. I think Canon is going to add something this time that is out of the box to cement their place on top in the mirrorless world very quickly.

Going bigger than 35mm is one option that would fit that bill nicely.

That would actually make sense if Canon were to create a new mount.

 

[Mikehit]

Coincidentally, Steve Jobs sometime around 2005 was having ACTUAL TALKS in the boardroom of Apple asking board members as whether or not BUYING Canon outright for their colour laser printing technology AND for their precision optical systems technology was a good idea.

I know everything you post here is nonsense, but did Apple have the resources to buy Canon back then? It's the richest company in the world (more or less) NOW, but 2005 was long before even the iPhone - does anyone have the figures? I wouldn't be surprised if Canon was as big as or bigger than Apple in those days.

In 2005, Apple's market cap was in the high 20's (billions of $), Canon's was in the low 30's.

But since when have facts or reality concerned Harry in the slightest?

To be fair, small companies dong leveraged buyouts of much bigger companies was de rigeur in the 1980s/1990s.
Not saying Harry knows what he is talking about, just that knocking him based on company market value is dodgy ground.

 

[criscokkat]

https://www.cultofmac.com/477553/apple-history-canon-apple-acquisition/

With all the apple/canon talk, don't forget this almost happened.

 

[HarryFilm]

Coincidentally, Steve Jobs sometime around 2005 was having ACTUAL TALKS in the boardroom of Apple asking board members as whether or not BUYING Canon outright for their colour laser printing technology AND for their precision optical systems technology was a good idea.

I know everything you post here is nonsense, but did Apple have the resources to buy Canon back then? It's the richest company in the world (more or less) NOW, but 2005 was long before even the iPhone - does anyone have the figures? I wouldn't be surprised if Canon was as big as or bigger than Apple in those days.

Oh that's just the tip of the nonsense iceberg.

... hardcopy PAPER printing was a dead end...

That would be the same "hardcopy paper printing" that allowed Canon's office products division to offset losses in its imaging division during the meltdown of the point and shoot market. There were several years when Canon's office products division was profitable while the imaging division was suffering losses. One reason why diversification is a smart move for a company like Canon.

...by rebranding DSLR/Mirrorless Canon cameras and lenses with Apple logos...

More nonsense

...make a Fast and "Relatively Inexpensive Price Point" APPLE-branded Metal/Plastic/Ceramic 3D Printer for the worldwide 3,500,000 engineers who could afford to buy Apple-branded desktop and professional versions for between $1500 to $25,000+ US!...multi-colour 3D printed interiors, surfacing and finishing and with Canon's multi-colour inkjet and colour laser print technology mated to MarkForged 3D printers...Top-notch EASY-TO-USE Apple design and production software married with FAST AND PRECISE MarkForged 3D printing hardware mated to Canon inkjet/colour laser print and precision optics technology would be the NEXT KILLER PROFESSIONAL PRODUCT from Apple !!!!

A jumble of mixed-up nonsense from someone who clearly has no idea what he is talking about. Or, even what 3D printers do.

SO THERE! AGAIN, YOU HAVE HEARD IT HERE FIRST !!!!!!!!!!

Yes, we have heard another stinking pile of nonsense.

===

"....A jumble of mixed-up nonsense from someone who clearly has no idea what he is talking about. Or, even what 3D printers do...."

That is a comment going to a guy who has access to THREE HAAS 5-axis CNC machines AND about TWENTY of the Stratasys 3D fused deposition printers AND a few German-made electron-beam titanium metal powder fusion 3D print machines used to make turbojet, scramjet and rocket motor parts.....AND.... to a guy who has a fully-functional 70,000 lbs of thrust custom 3D metal-printed Turbojet sitting in the company warehouse!

--- I do however agree with you that Canon's diversification was correct and YES the printing division DEFINITELY subsidized parts of Canon but it was the INDUSTRIAL precision optics that REALLY saved Canon's tush during those years. People don't realize how much Canon has in terms of market share for micro-electronics. At one point at the time it was as much as 7% to 12% global marketshare which is TENS OF BILLIONS of dollars.

As of 2017 Canon is now #2 after Largen Precision Optics AND in terms of semiconductor-specific manufacturing optics MAY rise to the top-5 within less than 5 years which is another 30 to 40 billion dollars. Apple's recent look at Canon (I have some VERY GOOD SOURCES for THAT information!) is a good sign that Apple wants to take CPU production TOTALLY IN-HOUSE!

In 2005 Apple was in enough of a good financial position to actually BE ABLE to engineer a take over and not just merge with Canon! They had enough clout that the financiers of the deal (probably Goldman Sachs or Morgan Stanley) would DEFINITELY have agreed to do a highly leveraged buyout of Canon since Apple and Canon were roughly similar in size in 2005 ($48 Billion US for Canon July 3, 2005 and 49.8 Billion November 2005 for Apple)

Canon was the stronger company in terms of physical employee and infrastructure size BUT financially Apple was the more able company to get financing from a Mergers and Acquisitions firm. AND YES! I KNOW on an ABSOLUTE BASIS that the boardroom comment by Steve Jobs was not just made in jest, he was INDEED seriously looking at buying Canon in 2005! -- I'll leave it at that! --

The POSSIBLE www.MarkForged.com acquisition by Apple is for 3D composite printing technology which Apple wants to be able to sell to workstation-oriented engineering-specific users (is that WHY the Mac Pro is delayed until 2019? - To get 3D metal/composite printers ready?) AND MAY ALSO BE related to it's current and STILL SECRET in-house Apple Autonomous Vehicle Development being used for production-ready parts manufacturing in a US facility.

Apple wants to do something BIG in 3D composite materials and 3D metal printing
and acquiring Canon AND MarkForged would be a WOW event! Those things look so good, that I'm taking a look at the MarkForged 3D composite printers NOW...AND....I might be getting TWO of them for my own specialty-aerospace works and not just keep using my friend's CNC/3D printing gear all the time!

---

In terms of a takeover of Canon BY Apple, I think it makes FINANCIAL AND TECHNOLOGICAL SENSE !!! Apple gets Canon Semiconductor precision optics to take CPU production and maybe even RAM memory production FULLY IN-HOUSE ....AND....gets access to some of the the best low-light and global shutter sensors in the business...AND...putting a global shutter 2/3rds inch, APS-C or Full Frame 8k sensor on an iPhone or iPad would be AN ABSOLUTELY INSANELY GREAT way to steal smartphone market share from Samsung and China's up-and-coming Huawei, Lenovo and Xiaomi!

There really IS NO DOWNSIDE to Apple Buying Canon Outright...even WITH a 15% share price premium, it's ONLY gonna be somewhere between 47 to 53 Billion Dollars US in terms of a total take-over price! Apple has $160 Billion in the bank! They can DEFINITELY AFFORD IT AND APPLE NEEDS Canon's precision optics, semiconductor manufacturing expertise and the proprietary sensor and lens production technology!

---

P.S. Canon IS STILL coming out with a super large sensor smartphone AND a VERY LARGE SENSOR Medium Format 25 fps burst rate 50 megapixel stills camera!

 

[stevelee]

Remember when AOL bought out Time/Warner/Turner? Remember all the rumors that Sun would buy Apple? Remember Sun? Neither the rumors or the reality always made a lot of sense, looking back, and may have seemed surreal enough at the time.

And just as Visicalc was the killer app that convinced business that personal computers could be useful, desktop publishing was the killer process (hardware meets software) that made GUI the standard for personal computers eventually. Without the LaserWriter and Quark/Pagemaker, the Mac might never have caught on nor Apple survived to inspire rumors of what to do with hundreds of billions of dollars of spare change lying around.

And bizarre as it seems to probably most of us, one the main reasons some people upgrade their phones these days is to get a better camera.

So to say that Canon posses technology that could be at the core of Apple's continued success is not a stretch. And the vice versa someone has already suggested is that Apple's custom chip technology for producing powerful, small, efficient microprocessors could get us to leap to Digic 19 all of a sudden, maybe.

So while I think that Apple's swallowing Canon whole seems out of character, crazier things have happened, and there do seem to be some dots there to connect in one's imagination.

 

[HarryFilm]

Remember when AOL bought out Time/Warner/Turner? Remember all the rumors that Sun would buy Apple? Remember Sun? Neither the rumors or the reality always made a lot of sense, looking back, and may have seemed surreal enough at the time.

And just as Visicalc was the killer app that convinced business that personal computers could be useful, desktop publishing was the killer process (hardware meets software) that made GUI the standard for personal computers eventually. Without the LaserWriter and Quark/Pagemaker, the Mac might never have caught on nor Apple survived to inspire rumors of what to do with hundreds of billions of dollars of spare change lying around.

And bizarre as it seems to probably most of us, one the main reasons some people upgrade their phones these days is to get a better camera.

So to say that Canon posses technology that could be at the core of Apple's continued success is not a stretch. And the vice versa someone has already suggested is that Apple's custom chip technology for producing powerful, small, efficient microprocessors could get us to leap to Digic 19 all of a sudden, maybe.

So while I think that Apple's swallowing Canon whole seems out of character, crazier things have happened, and there do seem to be some dots there to connect in one's imagination.

---

Canon is NOT THE ONLY COMPANY that Apple is looking at!

Right now Canon is in their TOP-5 of possible Apple acquisitions and that the AMD offshoot Global Foundries MAY ALSO be on the Purchase List. Apple wants semiconductor manufacturing prowess for CPU chips, RAM memory AND CMOS Sensors!

I think a takeover of Canon is Apple's BEST BET but a gobble-up of Global Foundries would ALSO be a GREAT purchase! Whatever happens, I can tell you that Canon, Sony, Samsung, Apple, etc. are ALL going GUNG-HO for HUGE sensors on smartphones and right now only Apple, Sony and Canon have the requisite abilities to pull that off on a PURELY PROPRIETARY BASIS !!! Every other manufacturer (even Samsung!) has to buy multiple parts from elsewhere! Apple has their proprietary CPU-chips since they are trying to ditch the ARM cores for their own internal designs (they have been hiring CPU/GPU/RAM chip designers left-right-and-centre!) and a takeover of Canon would further that goal even more so!

For us here on CanonRumors, it does mean that some VERY POWERFUL camera gear, be it smartphone-based or DSLR-like mirrorless-based, is coming down the pipeline VERY SOON NOW and I believe that a FULL ARM-like 64-bit combined RISC CPU and GPU-processor stacked onto the back of a CMOS sensor is going to be way to bring 50 megapixel (8k) 16-bits per channel HDR Stills and 60 fps 4:4:4/4:2:2 H.265/HVEC/HDR Video imagery to compact photo systems INCLUDING higher end smartphones!

Apple is in on the prowl and Canon is in the Top-5 of it's internal takeover list!

REMEMBER --- YOU HEARD IT HERE FIRST !!!!!

 

[Loswr]

REMEMBER --- YOU HEARD IT HERE FIRST !!!!!

You're wrong. I've been hearing bullshit for far longer than CanonRumors has existed.

 

[HarryFilm]

REMEMBER --- YOU HEARD IT HERE FIRST !!!!!

You're wrong. I've been hearing bullshit for far longer than CanonRumors has existed.

===

Let me just say that a DOOOOOOOOOOZIE of an announcement is coming very soon.....and my speculations (backed up by some decent sources!) says that certain events are taking place as we speak...and that Canon has something VERY VERY VERY INTERESTING up their sleeve!

It's not bullshit if it's revealed to be all true........... ;-) ;-)