No 7D Mark II? [CR1]

[lol]

There's just something, at times, to have a crop camera do it for you automatically to remove any doubt from clients minds.

I don't have to worry about this simply by not having "clients", but how often do you get clients looking at a DSLR output before processing? I just can't imagine that being a major problem. Might also be a "type of photography" difference too?

 

[awinphoto]

There's just something, at times, to have a crop camera do it for you automatically to remove any doubt from clients minds.

I don't have to worry about this simply by not having "clients", but how often do you get clients looking at a DSLR output before processing? I just can't imagine that being a major problem. Might also be a "type of photography" difference too?

Sometimes I get the oddball that will want to, sometimes not. Sometimes, when shooting as a second shooter, you dont even get the chance to look at your own images after your done with the shoot, you just handoff the card to the primary shooter and they do what they want. Sometimes when I shoot with a model, I'll show them a file or two when I get a few great shots to boost their confidence a bit. Sometimes if they client really wants to have a "say" as to how the shoot is going... I shot for my clients, even if it isn't exactly what I would like for my portfolio per se, if they are happy, then i'm good. Some clients are trusting that you are the professional and you can get them a good final product, some clients, while they trust you, will want to have their art director at the shoot and you almost have to shoot tethered so they can proof every shot. Sometimes they are just nosey and want to make sure, while i take care of the actual photograph, they want to make sure thee isn't anything extra they could do to aid me with their product to get the best result, like chefs for example. This is why I try to get everything as perfect as I can in camera and then do minor post production, cropping, color balance if needed, etc.

It's all about having the right tool for the job... sometimes its a crop camera, sometimes full frame, but if i know a file is going to need extensive cropping, I'll shoot a crop camera over a full frame anyday if I dont have access to a lens that can compensate for me.

 

[Jim K]

Why are you quoting your own post?

He meant to click Modify, but clicked Quote instead. I do that from time to time.

Ok, now i understand

I now understand too.

Thanks Neuroanatomist. I just got back on and couldn't figure how I got the second post three minutes after the first. Didn't bother to read the second either. Thought I might have double clicked and it reposted but wondered why did it take three minutes.

 

[unfocused]

There is one other alternative: high MP full frame so you can crop.

Sorry, but I just had to laugh about this. Years ago, when I was fresh out of journalism school and editing a small paper we had a freelance photographer who was a Speed Graphic guy. He insisted that he could shoot any subject with the 4x5 Speed Graphic and crop it. He used to look down on the "small sensor" cameras of the day (35mm SLR).

Well, he was wrong. His pictures came out like crap. Cropping will never replace framing the image well in the first place.

 

[awinphoto]

There is one other alternative: high MP full frame so you can crop.

Sorry, but I just had to laugh about this. Years ago, when I was fresh out of journalism school and editing a small paper we had a freelance photographer who was a Speed Graphic guy. He insisted that he could shoot any subject with the 4x5 Speed Graphic and crop it. He used to look down on the "small sensor" cameras of the day (35mm SLR).

Well, he was wrong. His pictures came out like crap. Cropping will never replace framing the image well in the first place.

Exactly. With film you could enlarge but the more you did, the more you introduced grain, even in the largest sheets of film, same with noise and digital files. In the professional arena, it also comes off as very UNprofessional if you cant get it right in camera.

 

[smirkypants]

Cropping will never replace framing the image well in the first place.

Well, yes and no, right? The D800 has a DX Mode that turns it into a crop-sensor camera. The only reason it can do this is because it has a huge number to start out with and it pre-crops it for you down to a 16MP camera. I don't know how this looks in the viewfinder or how it works in practice. It will be interesting.

Think of all the arguments that would just vanish if they came out with an über 5D that had enough MPs to be able to put it into an 16MP crop mode. Also, if you put an EF-S lens on it, it automatically senses it and puts the camera into crop mode.

Yeah, this is pretty much what the D800 does. Cool, right?

 

[lol]

Cropping will never replace framing the image well in the first place.

In an ideal world, that might be the case. We are not in an ideal world, and you don't need "best" all the time. Be realistic, good enough is erm... good enough. By having a high MP full frame sensor, like the rumoured 45MP model, you can easily crop to APS-C equivalent. If it was good enough at APS-C, it will be good enough cropped from a high MP full frame.

Again I think we're into different needs for different jobs. While there may be many areas of photography where framing is comparatively easy, cropping is commonplace in wildlife. There's only so much "get to know your subject and wait for the shot" can get you. At times, the unexpected happens and you just gotta do what you can. Safest option in that case: middle point AF, zoom out, and worry about cropping later!

 

[D_Rochat]

I'm going to get smited into the ground for this one..... Why are people acting like it's the end of the world if Canon makes the 70D the new 7D? If the make that move, they'll likely make the 70D better than the current 7D, so what's the problem? Is it because then you wouldn't have bragging rights on owning a "pro body"? As long as it's better, then who cares what number it's badged with. Whether or not they make a 7DII, you'll still get an upgrade. Or just buy a Nikon.... Let the smiting begin.

 

[smirkypants]

I'm going to get smited into the ground for this one..... Why are people acting like it's the end of the world if Canon makes the 70D the new 7D? If the make that move, they'll likely make the 70D better than the current 7D, so what's the problem? Is it because then you wouldn't have bragging rights on owning a "pro body"? As long as it's better, then who cares what number it's badged with. Whether or not they make a 7DII, you'll still get an upgrade. Or just buy a Nikon.... Let the smiting begin.

No, it's because if it's a 70D it won't have pro features. The xxD line is gimped compared to the xD line. I want high end durability, AF, metering, 2 CF slots... everything that's in the 1D line but with a APS-C sensor. I'm not the only one.

 

[briansquibb]

I'm going to get smited into the ground for this one..... Why are people acting like it's the end of the world if Canon makes the 70D the new 7D? If the make that move, they'll likely make the 70D better than the current 7D, so what's the problem? Is it because then you wouldn't have bragging rights on owning a "pro body"? As long as it's better, then who cares what number it's badged with. Whether or not they make a 7DII, you'll still get an upgrade. Or just buy a Nikon.... Let the smiting begin.

No, it's because if it's a 70D it won't have pro features. The xxD line is gimped compared to the xD line. I want high end durability, AF, metering, 2 CF slots... everything that's in the 1D line but with a APS-C sensor. I'm not the only one.

I would be mighty disappointed to buy a 'pro' body ony to find a APS-C sensor inside.

The 70D will essentially be a 7DII - ie a 7D with improved features, like a Digic 5, maybe even 10fps. But dont expect twin cards and pro AF for $1500

 

[Maui5150]

The 70D will essentially be a 7DII - ie a 7D with improved features, like a Digic 5, maybe even 10fps. But dont expect twin cards and pro AF for $1500

Wait, you mean the 7D MKII will not be a 24 MP APS-C, with 61 point AF, 51200 Native ISO, weather sealed, Dual CF Card, Built-in Wireless, 10 FPS for $1200?????????

You mean I have been waiting for nothing?????

I thought the 7D MK II was basically the 1DX, just with an APS-C sensor, and since crop sensors are so cheap, they can sell it for around $1200 and still make a huge mark-up....

 

[D_Rochat]

I'm going to get smited into the ground for this one..... Why are people acting like it's the end of the world if Canon makes the 70D the new 7D? If the make that move, they'll likely make the 70D better than the current 7D, so what's the problem? Is it because then you wouldn't have bragging rights on owning a "pro body"? As long as it's better, then who cares what number it's badged with. Whether or not they make a 7DII, you'll still get an upgrade. Or just buy a Nikon.... Let the smiting begin.

No, it's because if it's a 70D it won't have pro features. The xxD line is gimped compared to the xD line. I want high end durability, AF, metering, 2 CF slots... everything that's in the 1D line but with a APS-C sensor. I'm not the only one.

What you're asking for is a cheap 1D with an APS-C sensor, not a 7D. I want a 1D that makes coffee as well. Probably not going to happen.

 

[kapanak]

The 70D will essentially be a 7DII - ie a 7D with improved features, like a Digic 5, maybe even 10fps. But dont expect twin cards and pro AF for $1500

Wait, you mean the 7D MKII will not be a 24 MP APS-C, with 61 point AF, 51200 Native ISO, weather sealed, Dual CF Card, Built-in Wireless, 10 FPS for $1200?????????

You mean I have been waiting for nothing?????

I thought the 7D MK II was basically the 1DX, just with an APS-C sensor, and since crop sensors are so cheap, they can sell it for around $1200 and still make a huge mark-up....

Sarcasm is very hard to detect on the internet.

 

[fengshui]

The big advantage of the 7D is cost. Many photographers want a body that's more featured than the XXD series, but don't want to pay the costs of upgrading to Full-Frame. If they dropped the 7D, would they really move the AF, Viewfinder, CF, and Weather Sealing features down into the XXD series? If not, what do photographers with a large investment in EF-S lenses do?

Sure, if you're starting from scratch with multiple thousands of dollars, going FF from the beginning is great. But many people get into photography piecemeal, starting with an entry-level kit package, then adding a macro or wide-angle lens here, then a prime or two there. When they're ready to step up to a new body, Canon needs to have an option.

 

[BXL]

The 70D will essentially be a 7DII - ie a 7D with improved features, like a Digic 5, maybe even 10fps. But dont expect twin cards and pro AF for $1500

Well, I don't believe that a 70D will get a better AF than the 7D. The product cycle of the 7D will be longer than that of the xxD cameras and one of the features that differentiate the 7D from the 60D/70D is the AF, the fps, the dual Digic.

Thus even if a 70D is introduced this autumn, it doesn't mean that it will be an improved version of the 7D. Most likely its just an upgrade of the 60D with an advanced version of the 9 cross-type AF and some other improvements.

 

[gmrza]

The big advantage of the 7D is cost. Many photographers want a body that's more featured than the XXD series, but don't want to pay the costs of upgrading to Full-Frame. If they dropped the 7D, would they really move the AF, Viewfinder, CF, and Weather Sealing features down into the XXD series? If not, what do photographers with a large investment in EF-S lenses do?

Sure, if you're starting from scratch with multiple thousands of dollars, going FF from the beginning is great. But many people get into photography piecemeal, starting with an entry-level kit package, then adding a macro or wide-angle lens here, then a prime or two there. When they're ready to step up to a new body, Canon needs to have an option.

I agree with the cost reasoning about the 7D, however, if we look at the current price of the 5DII, it is not far above where the 7D used to be.
One challenge for 7D users is the lack of a good lens selection for a high quality crop frame camera - this is mainly an issue at the wide end. The biggest issue is that there is not really anything to compare to the 24-105mm f/4L IS USM.
In terms of development effort, Canon might be getting close to a point where it is cheaper to sell a full frame body in the 7D price range than to develop high quality, wide angle to medium focal length lenses for crop frame. (This really covers zooms with IS and weather sealing and prime lenses.)
Given that Canon's pro/high end lens line up is still biased to full frame, while the EF-S line-up is biased to entry level, it might be more desirable for Canon to try to convert 7D users to full frame. That approach would however leave wildlife photographers out in the cold if there is no high quality crop frame body. - Canon would probably argue for the use of a 1.4x TC, but then the issues of IQ and AF at f/8 come into play.

 

[wickidwombat]

Several things here

1. Canon are not stupid they have been around for a long time and are the market leader - they want it to stay that way

2. they are clearly addressing all the concerns of the FF crowd me included maybe not as quickly as everyone would like but I think this next round of products are going to pretty awesome.

3. They most definately have noticed the EVIL / mirrorless competitors savaging the bottom end of the DSLR market. I fully expect they will respond with something here that knocks the competition out of the park. Everyone in the mirrorless arena talk up APS-C sensors as being huge, cannon are already all over the APS-H tech, might we see the rebirth of APS-H in this format? The thought of an APS-H mirrorless at a decent price, with and EF adaptor?

4. I seriously doubt canon are going to just drop the APS-C crowd or let it die I think they will come out with a stunning high end APS-C. The build of the current 7D is great if they use the same body and beef up everything else and call it a 70D does it really matter? they do need to rationalise the APS-C line especially with the mirrorless compacts eating into that arena i mean 7D, 60D, 600D and 1100D with a price gap of what $700 seperating all of them? somethings gotta give here.

anyway thats just my thoughts on the subject
Canon bring it on!

 

[AUGS]

One thing I've never really understood, and maybe someone like neuro can inform me, but why does the Canon naming/numbering seem discontinuous and random. By that I mean we have the flagship in the 1D, and pro-bodies and generally accepted next level down being the 5D, followed by current 7D (ignoring all mark versions).
So why is the next Series "leader" the 60D and not the 10D (which is no longer available)?

Is this rumour, and the rumoured 5D split into 2 bodies, the change to their naming paradigm? Could we see the rumoured 5D split become 5Dx (22MP, 1D type AF, etc) and 7Dx (full-frame big MP based on existing 7D sensor scaled up, 7D type AF spec, higher fps - hence no 7D2 - and as seen in Kenya which looked very 7D-esque), with the successor to the 7D becoming the 10Dx and we see a gradual naming convention trickle down over time? The 10Dx becomes the APS-C flagship with current 7D type features including the AF, build standard and any upgrades?

Just a thought based on a huge number of rumours and postings of late.

 

[RuneL]

I'd not be surprised if they killed the 7D. I've always wondered at the purpose of that camera. Upgrading the XXD's to take it's place and releasing a faster focusing, fast shooting 5D and supplementing with a slower high MP one makes sense.

Also, the corp-factor argument for extra reach is getting tired, even Canon showed us this with the 1D X. Sports and wildlife shooters need reach, but plenty of them use full frame Nikons. If you are a pro that needs super reach you get the lens for it.

go for it. Kill the 7D.

 

[RuneL]

One thing I've never really understood, and maybe someone like neuro can inform me, but why does the Canon naming/numbering seem discontinuous and random. By that I mean we have the flagship in the 1D, and pro-bodies and generally accepted next level down being the 5D, followed by current 7D (ignoring all mark versions).
So why is the next Series "leader" the 60D and not the 10D (which is no longer available)?

Is this rumour, and the rumoured 5D split into 2 bodies, the change to their naming paradigm? Could we see the rumoured 5D split become 5Dx (22MP, 1D type AF, etc) and 7Dx (full-frame big MP based on existing 7D sensor scaled up, 7D type AF spec, higher fps - hence no 7D2 - and as seen in Kenya which looked very 7D-esque), with the successor to the 7D becoming the 10Dx and we see a gradual naming convention trickle down over time? The 10Dx becomes the APS-C flagship with current 7D type features including the AF and build standard?

Just a thought based on a huge number of rumours and postings of late.

If Canon were to stick to their naming convention the followup 7D would be the MK II. Only the XXD, XXXD etc change their model number. PRobably due to the 1D and 5D being very strong brands, not so sure about 7D though, so... Maybe it'll be an 8 or 9 or 10?

And if you think Canons naming is weird look at Nikons.