Now that...

[Mt Spokane Photography]

Concidering I bought a 6D recently.....

I would only kick myself if the 6DII had significantly better low light ability (>1stop) and much better quality AF & spread of AF. If it has a million double cross type sensors down to -99EV but they're all in the centre then I don't care.

I've been used to 8Mpix and have got very satisfactory A3 prints off that, 20MPix is enough unless you're cropping heavily (and I accept some do) or you're doing some advanced landscape or studio/art repro stuff (which is what the 5Ds is all about)

I would hope a new 6D has the joystick and better back pannel weather sealing ahead of any significant increase in pixels.

New cameras are always raising the bar. Its unlikely that a new sensor will be a huge jump over the previous one. It will be incremental. 1/2 stop is a typical gain.

The rumor for the past year has the 6D jumping up to a more expensive camera (Think $2600) while a 5D MK IV will still be $3700.

I do not think that a new camera with a few improvements for twice what a 6D costs is something to be unhappy about.

 

[scottkinfw]

Without improvement in AF speed/accuracy, I would not buy a 5DIV. This is a must. This camera for me must be better than the 6DIII for tracking fast moving wildlife, or it is a non-starter. A couple extra MP, fine. A couple extra fps, great, bring it. 1 extra f stop yes. But better AF, for sure.

sek

From my understanding, a lot of the tech from the 5DII was somewhat recycled in the 6D.
If that logic continues then you are looking at 5DIII stuff in the 6DII.
At most... I don't see the 6DII going above 24MP.

Now the 5D4 is going to see new territory. There is going to be a serious jump in MP, like how the 5DII was to the 5D (original) as there won't be any change in AF and metering. DPAF, GPS, may be 4K??? (I mean, I know... I know... enough with the 4K, right? But this is only time that it can don the moniker 5D4K)
Similar to the 1DC only 4K/24p (MJPEG) and 1080/60p. Not as good as the 1DX2. With the bump in MP, they are going to keep it at 5fps.

 

[Maximilian]

First I do enough, second is not easy to trigger if you're not a native speaker and don't see the others face.

Well, I'm glad you took my post seriously. It is based on fact. Fuji currently have some rangefinder style prototypes floating around and are gauging market interest. (A $3500 - $5000 camera plus lens range is a big risk for a niche player with less than 1% of the market and where your loyal customers are used to paying less than $1500 for your cameras.) They are also building a new sensor factory where the organic sensor that they are developing with Panasonic will likely be built.

But if it came to fruition, for the same price as 5D, you'd have a camera system that was noticeably smaller and lighter (think Fuji GA645), significantly higher MP, industry leading IQ atributes and shallower DOF if you want it. And the lenses don't need to be too expensive - just look at the Pentax 645D. It will be a more compelling competitor to Canon than anything Nikon (or Sony) have put out recently.

As far as I have seen the Fuji MF rumor there is no real price mentioned. The $3.500 came from someone who was hoping for that price, but it was a user, no one involved. If Fuji could built a MF camera with lens for together $5.000 that would surprise me. But in that case you'd be right.

 

[K]

A 6D2 with one slot would be like buying a BMW with roll up windows...

lol, quite an exaggeration there!

I use a 1DX and never shoot to both cards simultaneously no matter how important the event.

Sure I could have a card fail on me, then again I could have two fail on me, or three, or the camera might break, I might even get run over by a bus, hit by lightning or....

If you are so concerned about losing data, buy extra cards and swap them out frequently, it's not that big a deal and if you are going to do that you can buy smaller GB cards which are also cheaper.

Congratulations on your lucky streak. Others are not so lucky. Remember, it isn't a matter of IF, but WHEN. Memory cards, as good as they are - still fail or corrupt. It's rare, yes I admit that. But it does happen. Usually at bad times too. Funny how that works.

It also depends greatly on the type of event. If you're at a race track and the mission is to capture images of various cars flying by - your method works fine for a single card slot users. Take shots on card A, then take mostly the same ones on card B. You have the flexibility to capture what is going on at an event, rather than key moments at an event. Only downside is, shooting the same or very similar stuff to two cards is a waste of time and redundant.

Then there are some events where this is impossible. Like a wedding. Good luck getting the first kiss or bouquet toss on 2 different cards with a swap. Not enough time. This means critical, key moments of the event, which are NOT reproducible, will reside and exist on a single card until they are uploaded to something. Also, the critical portrait/family shots, the ones that mom will cherish and frame up - you are going to slow down the shoot by doing it 2x over? Or doing it once, but stopping to swap cards for each portrait?

There are plenty of arguments of absurdium like the camera could fail, tornado et cetera. Great. Because any number of infinite, but remote possibilities exist, one shouldn't bother with a simple safe measure like dual slots? That is illogical. If the camera dies - you will know it right there on the spot, and you can then use your backup camera. If it is a critical event, yes, you should have a backup camera. And NO, a backup camera is not a substitute for 2 slots. Two single slot card cameras solves nothing. Just to be clear, the 2nd camera would be worn on body, not out of reach. It is very fast to deploy, and you have a high probability of still getting the critical moment. To be fair, the only way to be completely rock solid is to have 2 shooters, with dual slot cameras going at it for critical moments. Thus, to lose the moment would require the failure of 2 cameras at the same time, or 4 cards. Almost statistically impossible. That's what you want, minimize the chances.

People put wayyyy too much faith in the reliability of memory cards.


So it depends on what latitude of freedom you have at your event. If I'm shooting for some blog that wants photos of a local festival - no problem. 1 slot will do it and I can swap and get a collection of what I need that spans a few cards, the majority of which will allow me to produce to the client sufficient material in the event one goes down. However, what will I say to the bride when I do not have a shot of the first kiss? Tell her sorry, my Lexar/SanDisk corrupted.....This destroys reputations, is unfair to the client, and irresponsible.


For $2,000 or more, Canon should offer dual slots as a standard feature. They offer on the 5D3, 5DS, 7D2...and even video cameras like the G40...Gee, why do they do that? Use the reverse argument. If it is so safe to have one slot, why bother even on these cameras? Do away with dual slots entirely.

Given also that Canon can economically place 2 slots on the 7D2, and given its current price point - it is totally unacceptable they put 1 slot on the future 6D2. There's no logical, reasonable reason of any kind other than they are doing it to cripple the camera. To deter people from using it in the most serious moments as to instead opt for and buy a more expensive FF camera....

Push the suckers up to a 5D series. That's all.

 

[dak723]

A 6D2 with one slot would be like buying a BMW with roll up windows...

lol, quite an exaggeration there!

I use a 1DX and never shoot to both cards simultaneously no matter how important the event.

Sure I could have a card fail on me, then again I could have two fail on me, or three, or the camera might break, I might even get run over by a bus, hit by lightning or....

If you are so concerned about losing data, buy extra cards and swap them out frequently, it's not that big a deal and if you are going to do that you can buy smaller GB cards which are also cheaper.

Congratulations on your lucky streak. Others are not so lucky. Remember, it isn't a matter of IF, but WHEN. Memory cards, as good as they are - still fail or corrupt. It's rare, yes I admit that. But it does happen. Usually at bad times too. Funny how that works.

It also depends greatly on the type of event. If you're at a race track and the mission is to capture images of various cars flying by - your method works fine for a single card slot users. Take shots on card A, then take mostly the same ones on card B. You have the flexibility to capture what is going on at an event, rather than key moments at an event. Only downside is, shooting the same or very similar stuff to two cards is a waste of time and redundant.

Then there are some events where this is impossible. Like a wedding. Good luck getting the first kiss or bouquet toss on 2 different cards with a swap. Not enough time. This means critical, key moments of the event, which are NOT reproducible, will reside and exist on a single card until they are uploaded to something. Also, the critical portrait/family shots, the ones that mom will cherish and frame up - you are going to slow down the shoot by doing it 2x over? Or doing it once, but stopping to swap cards for each portrait?

There are plenty of arguments of absurdium like the camera could fail, tornado et cetera. Great. Because any number of infinite, but remote possibilities exist, one shouldn't bother with a simple safe measure like dual slots? That is illogical. If the camera dies - you will know it right there on the spot, and you can then use your backup camera. If it is a critical event, yes, you should have a backup camera. And NO, a backup camera is not a substitute for 2 slots. Two single slot card cameras solves nothing. Just to be clear, the 2nd camera would be worn on body, not out of reach. It is very fast to deploy, and you have a high probability of still getting the critical moment. To be fair, the only way to be completely rock solid is to have 2 shooters, with dual slot cameras going at it for critical moments. Thus, to lose the moment would require the failure of 2 cameras at the same time, or 4 cards. Almost statistically impossible. That's what you want, minimize the chances.

People put wayyyy too much faith in the reliability of memory cards.


So it depends on what latitude of freedom you have at your event. If I'm shooting for some blog that wants photos of a local festival - no problem. 1 slot will do it and I can swap and get a collection of what I need that spans a few cards, the majority of which will allow me to produce to the client sufficient material in the event one goes down. However, what will I say to the bride when I do not have a shot of the first kiss? Tell her sorry, my Lexar/SanDisk corrupted.....This destroys reputations, is unfair to the client, and irresponsible.


For $2,000 or more, Canon should offer dual slots as a standard feature. They offer on the 5D3, 5DS, 7D2...and even video cameras like the G40...Gee, why do they do that? Use the reverse argument. If it is so safe to have one slot, why bother even on these cameras? Do away with dual slots entirely.

Given also that Canon can economically place 2 slots on the 7D2, and given its current price point - it is totally unacceptable they put 1 slot on the future 6D2. There's no logical, reasonable reason of any kind other than they are doing it to cripple the camera. To deter people from using it in the most serious moments as to instead opt for and buy a more expensive FF camera....

Push the suckers up to a 5D series. That's all.

No, it is not a question of WHEN rather than IF. I, too, have never had a card fail. Using the same argument, you could say the same thing about the camera itself. At some point it will fail, it is not a question of IF, but WHEN....And that is why pros usually take 2 cameras to an important event. Do you?

If having two slots is so important to you, you can either:

1) buy one of the Canon cameras that have 2 slots. Yes, these are the top of the line pro level cameras in their categories. That is how Canon does it. Other companies may have a different approach.

2) Buy a camera from another company. Yes, this may mean selling your Canon gear and lenses, but resale value is usually pretty good.

3) Buy a back up camera. Yes, this also means additional cost, but your backup camera can be the least expensive model available.

4) Contact Canon by letter, email, phone or any means possible and let them know your opinion.

5) Complain endlessly on an internet forum which will do absolutely nothing.

These are your choices.

 

[K]

If having two slots is so important to you, you can either:

1) buy one of the Canon cameras that have 2 slots. Yes, these are the top of the line pro level cameras in their categories. That is how Canon does it. Other companies may have a different approach.

That's what Canon wants. For people to pay upwards of $3,000 to have FF and two slots. I've shown how they have no other reason to do this, but for that very purpose - push users upmarket. Sure, that's their choice. And you're right, I have the choice to go to another brand.

Being a for profit company, I'm sure their shareholders want consumers buying their cameras. OH...I can already hear the apologists ready to jump in and say "Canon is the leader, they are doing something right, you're wrong" ...or "Canon's market stats say otherwise" and other nonsensical arguments.

In the marketplace for entry-level pro, Nikon is eating Canon's lunch. So many pros I know out there and worked with, they want FF, good IQ and reliable camera. D610 and D750 offer that on the cheap. Anytime I'm at an event where I see up and comers, they're running Nikon. I'm in the minority with Canon. Yeah, Canon is champ on the sidelines with 1DX and the big whites...but there are so many out there and they are all running Nikon. Sure, this is all anecdotal evidence, but whatever.....don't see why Canon wouldn't want to keep those folks or bring them in.


Sure, Canon is the leader and is profitable, why not be MORE?


Yeah, some users will go upmarket, they can afford to. Others cannot, some of them are going Nikon.

 

[Don Haines]

A 6D2 with one slot would be like buying a BMW with roll up windows...

I use a 1DX and never shoot to both cards simultaneously no matter how important the event.

Congratulations on your lucky streak. Others are not so lucky. Remember, it isn't a matter of IF, but WHEN. Memory cards, as good as they are - still fail or corrupt. It's rare, yes I admit that. But it does happen. Usually at bad times too. Funny how that works.

No, it is not a question of WHEN rather than IF. I, too, have never had a card fail. Using the same argument, you could say the same thing about the camera itself. At some point it will fail, it is not a question of IF, but WHEN....And that is why pros usually take 2 cameras to an important event. Do you?

I have had a pair of CF failures (both Lexar) and a single SD card failure (sandisk). I have had a DSLR fail on vacation the day after the warranty expired (they fixed it for free) and had another one fail during a wedding, plus a DSLR that I dropped and broke. S___ happens. Do anything long enough and probability will catch up to you.

Having dual cards will not solve all problems, but it certainly improves the odds.

My first Lexar card failure occurred in a camera with just the one slot. I lost a half day of shooting.

My second Lexar card died in my 7D2. I immediately pulled both cards and swapped in clean cards. All images were lost on the Lexar CF card, but the backup copy on the SD card survived.

I had a DSLR fail on day 2 of a one week canoe trip. My only backup was a crappy p/s camera. I was not happy. They fixed for free, but it was gone for three weeks.

My second DSLR failure was during a wedding, fortunately not at a critical moment plus I was the second shooter, out doing crowd and atmosphere shots.... Strong words were silently said as I slipped the camera into the bag and grabbed number two.... Having a second camera kept me in the game. once again, fixed for free, but gone for three weeks.

My third DSLR failure was dropping a Rebel about 100 feet down onto a concrete pad. It dis-assembled on impact, but the SD card survived!

 

[Alejandro]

Hmmmmmm...

6D2:
1080p video. (No 4k).
22/24 mpx with high iso performance.
5D3 AF.
5.5/6 fps.
1/8000.


5D4:
4k
26/28 mpx
New AF system (Dual Pixel Maybe?)
7/8 fps.

 

[expatinasia]

Then there are some events where this is impossible. Like a wedding. Good luck getting the first kiss or bouquet toss on 2 different cards with a swap. Not enough time. This means critical, key moments of the event, which are NOT reproducible, will reside and exist on a single card until they are uploaded to something. Also, the critical portrait/family shots, the ones that mom will cherish and frame up - you are going to slow down the shoot by doing it 2x over? Or doing it once, but stopping to swap cards for each portrait?

Crikey, you are really worked up about this. I do not shoot weddings, and yes I use more than one body when shooting an important event but not for back up, or risk of card/camera failure. I use one body with a 400 on it and the other with 70-200 or sometimes a wide angle depending on what I want.

What I meant is, if you really want to edge your bets then just use multiple cards. Shoot 30 shots and swap out (of course you do not do this at a critical moment), or shoot a moment and sawp out. Just don't lose the cards!

I would love to know the real stats on this because if you search these forums you will find people who have had SanDisk, Lexar and others fail. But you only ever hear of the failures. Nobody is going to start a thread about how their card hasn't failed!!

I wonder out of the millions of cards that are produced each year, how many people have problems with them, I bet that number is very, very small.

But like someone else said. If you really want a dual slot camera buy a 1D Mark IV or a 1DX Mark I both of which are very reasonably priced now and some would argue produce better results than the lower category of cameras.

And remember to look both ways when crossing the road! Twice!

 

[unfocused]

Crikey, you are really worked up about this.

My thoughts exactly.

I would love to know the real stats on this because if you search these forums you will find people who have had SanDisk, Lexar and others fail. But you only ever hear of the failures. Nobody is going to start a thread about how their card hasn't failed!!

I wonder out of the millions of cards that are produced each year, how many people have problems with them, I bet that number is very, very small.

I wondered the same thing. I've never had a problem (crossing fingers and knocking on wood). I am very conscientious about formatting the card whenever I put it in the camera and never switch a card from one camera to another without reformatting it. I would be curious to learn if the people who have had card failures also do that.

Additionally, I wonder how frequently cards fail during use. In other words, how many people who put the card in the camera, format it, shoot a few frames and check the files to make sure they are recording; and still have a card fail. I've had problems with my computer not wanting to read a card, but since I've switched to regularly using a card reader instead of the computer slots, that has not been a problem.

Also, I wonder how often people who have a card fail are unable to recover the data using one of the manufacturers' recovery programs.

Just a whole lot of questions that I'd be curious to learn more about.

But like someone else said. If you really want a dual slot camera buy a 1D Mark IV or a 1DX Mark I both of which are very reasonably priced now and some would argue produce better results than the lower category of cameras.

Yeah, I don't think it's really realistic to get that upset because a company expects you to pay more for a certain model of a product that offers more features or conveniences than the lower level product.

 

[K]

Yeah, I don't think it's really realistic to get that upset because a company expects you to pay more for a certain model of a product that offers more features or conveniences than the lower level product.

Competitors offer up FF with dual slots for $2k and less. D750 and D610.


Canon expecting users wanting that feature in FF to dish out $3k plus are making a mistake in my opinion. But that's my opinion.


Dual slots isn't a patented technology. Nothing is holding them back. It isn't like the flawed argumentation others have made trying to reverse the argument and say "well, the Nikon D7200 doesn't have DPAF" ...Nikon can't get it even if they wanted, unless Canon sells it to them or they can re-engineer it in such a way that it does the same without infringing patents.


We're talking two card slots. This forum is always fun, the fanboys will defend Canon at all costs, no matter how unreasonable it may seem.

 

[expatinasia]

We're talking two card slots. This forum is always fun, the fanboys will defend Canon at all costs, no matter how unreasonable it may seem.

Fanboys? I do hope you are not putting me in that category.

 

[RGF]

Hi K!

Although I can follow a lot of your arguments, I mus say that ...

...
My guess ...
the 6D2 ... sports a 28MP sensor ...
the 5D4 will have a 24MP sensor ...

... if that guess comes true I'd be really surprised.
The "entry level FF" having a higher resolution than the "Pro Alrounder"?
But we'll see for sure...

agree. I expect that the 5D4 to have higher resolution than the 6D2.