Off Brand: Sony Announces the Full-frame a7R III

[Jopa]

It is ok that you prefer other features than me.

Yet, more than once, you asked others to list differences from 1DsIII to 1D X II that you would find overpowering. Interesting.

I'm with PBD on this – bells and whistles don't impress me. I can achieve the exposure I want based on the VF meter and my experience, and having more stuff cluttering up the VF just gets in the way of composition. Mainly, I want a reliable, robust system that just works. Canon offers that, Sony isn't there yet.

privatebydesign summed it up nicely, but, Neuro, I have to say:
* you as some other still do not answer original question I posted here two times, so I will not repeat it nor wait for the answer...
* AF coverage & Eye AF is only way to compose in camera and focus on the correct eye shooting moving subjects (I needed to do lots of cropping on post with any used DSLR.)
* VF zebra is only way to not need to guess the correct exposure in frequent light changing situations
* true silent shutter is the only way to go with low volume music concerts and theater performances. Now I can also shoot just beside videographer using top of camera microphone.

BTW: My dream camera would be:
* mirrorless
* global e shutter with unlimited sync speed
* Nikon full size like D5 + Nikon flash system
* Sony sensor 36x36mm with optional aspect ratio crop
* Canon mount
And such camera will never exist so I as everybody else need to choose between current offers of current manufacturers and find best feasible features / price ratio.

You may try to look in a different universe for this ^. Not gonna happen in ours

 

[Orangutan]

It is ok that you prefer other features than me.

Yet, more than once, you asked others to list differences from 1DsIII to 1D X II that you would find overpowering. Interesting.

I'm with PBD on this – bells and whistles don't impress me. I can achieve the exposure I want based on the VF meter and my experience, and having more stuff cluttering up the VF just gets in the way of composition. Mainly, I want a reliable, robust system that just works. Canon offers that, Sony isn't there yet.

privatebydesign summed it up nicely, but, Neuro, I have to say:
* you as some other still do not answer original question I posted here two times, so I will not repeat it nor wait for the answer...
* AF coverage & Eye AF is only way to compose in camera and focus on the correct eye shooting moving subjects (I needed to do lots of cropping on post with any used DSLR.)
* VF zebra is only way to not need to guess the correct exposure in frequent light changing situations
* true silent shutter is the only way to go with low volume music concerts and theater performances. Now I can also shoot just beside videographer using top of camera microphone.

BTW: My dream camera would be:
* mirrorless
* global e shutter with unlimited sync speed
* Nikon full size like D5 + Nikon flash system
* Sony sensor 36x36mm with optional aspect ratio crop
* Canon mount
And such camera will never exist so I as everybody else need to choose between current offers of current manufacturers and find best feasible features / price ratio.

You may try to look in a different universe for this ^. Not gonna happen in ours

Do you believe in string theory? Poof! New universe here and now! ;D

 

[Jopa]

It is ok that you prefer other features than me.

Yet, more than once, you asked others to list differences from 1DsIII to 1D X II that you would find overpowering. Interesting.

I'm with PBD on this – bells and whistles don't impress me. I can achieve the exposure I want based on the VF meter and my experience, and having more stuff cluttering up the VF just gets in the way of composition. Mainly, I want a reliable, robust system that just works. Canon offers that, Sony isn't there yet.

privatebydesign summed it up nicely, but, Neuro, I have to say:
* you as some other still do not answer original question I posted here two times, so I will not repeat it nor wait for the answer...
* AF coverage & Eye AF is only way to compose in camera and focus on the correct eye shooting moving subjects (I needed to do lots of cropping on post with any used DSLR.)
* VF zebra is only way to not need to guess the correct exposure in frequent light changing situations
* true silent shutter is the only way to go with low volume music concerts and theater performances. Now I can also shoot just beside videographer using top of camera microphone.

BTW: My dream camera would be:
* mirrorless
* global e shutter with unlimited sync speed
* Nikon full size like D5 + Nikon flash system
* Sony sensor 36x36mm with optional aspect ratio crop
* Canon mount
And such camera will never exist so I as everybody else need to choose between current offers of current manufacturers and find best feasible features / price ratio.

You may try to look in a different universe for this ^. Not gonna happen in ours

Do you believe in string theory? Poof! New universe here and now! ;D

LOL

 

[Dylan777]

Eye-AF is one of great features in that bells and whistles list.

The Eye-AF is an shiny example of bells and whistles! Canon's face detection is as accurate with the only thing you can't switch the eyes - it's going to be the closest detected eye ball. But how many times in your life you needed to switch to the far eye?

I love candid style, A9 eye-af tracking does wonderful job even when my subject is looking away from camera.

 

[Dylan777]

Allow the camera to track subject eye with eye-af while I'm compose the shot @ f1.4 is priceless.

 

[Talys]

* VF zebra is only way to not need to guess the correct exposure in frequent light changing situations

With 15 steps of DR, if you can't avoid blowing out your highlights without VF zebras, you've got more problems than camera brand. Or, maybe, it's just that EVFs are super annoying to use in situations where the light changes frequently/quickly.

 

[privatebydesign]

How does turning linear data into a curve help? There is no more space so something somewhere is crushed. Sure there are theoretical oversampling and averaging computations that haven’t been shown to be practical in this application that can give you more steps within a file. But so far we have been given linear data as linear data, so how are Sony getting, supposedly, well over 14 stops of DR into a 14 bit file? Red moved to 16 bit files to achieve the feat.

Crush highlight, not matter. Human eye less sensitive to highlight change. More sensitive low change.

Remember: 14bit file, 0-16383, 50% values 8192-16383 for top stop. Who care about 8000 value for light grey to white?

That's why a gamma curve is applied to the linear data in the rendering process. Nobody, and there are a lot of smart people working on it, has come up with a way to save more stops of DR than bit depth in the file. Like I said, companies that do actually push the boundaries of 12 and 14 stops of DR have all gone to 16 bit files, Red, Hasselblad etc.

So how are Sony putting more than 14 stops of DR into 14 bit files, and what is being lost in the process?

 

[Jopa]

Eye-AF is one of great features in that bells and whistles list.

The Eye-AF is an shiny example of bells and whistles! Canon's face detection is as accurate with the only thing you can't switch the eyes - it's going to be the closest detected eye ball. But how many times in your life you needed to switch to the far eye?

I love candid style, A9 eye-af tracking does wonderful job even when my subject is looking away from camera.

Great pictures Dylan! Very cute little boy
But really, any DPAF-enabled Canon camera can track faces (and prioritizing the eyes) the same way, you just won't see squares around the eyes.

 

[Jopa]

How does turning linear data into a curve help? There is no more space so something somewhere is crushed. Sure there are theoretical oversampling and averaging computations that haven’t been shown to be practical in this application that can give you more steps within a file. But so far we have been given linear data as linear data, so how are Sony getting, supposedly, well over 14 stops of DR into a 14 bit file? Red moved to 16 bit files to achieve the feat.

Crush highlight, not matter. Human eye less sensitive to highlight change. More sensitive low change.

Remember: 14bit file, 0-16383, 50% values 8192-16383 for top stop. Who care about 8000 value for light grey to white?

That's why a gamma curve is applied to the linear data in the rendering process. Nobody, and there are a lot of smart people working on it, has come up with a way to save more stops of DR than bit depth in the file. Like I said, companies that do actually push the boundaries of 12 and 14 stops of DR have all gone to 16 bit files, Red, Hasselblad etc.

So how are Sony putting more than 14 stops of DR into 14 bit files, and what is being lost in the process?

Re-posting raptor3x's link from another thread: http://www.photonstophotos.net/Charts/PDR.htm#Sony%20ILCE-7RM2,Sony%20ILCE-7RM3, it's actually 11.39. Their marketing department thinks it's very close to 15, so why not?

 

[9VIII]

“Mirrorless” is all “Smoke and Mirrors”
(Sorry, I couldn’t help myself)

At this rate it’s going to take another 5-10 years to actually get something comparable with high end SLR performance.

With today high end mirrorless, I found your comment quite lack of understanding. They both have their strength and weakness.

The point is mirrorless is marketed using false metrics.
Even the A9 can’t shoot 14 bit above 12 fps, the 1DX2 has superior dynamic range at maximum burst, not to mention the myriad of other bizarre complications that no Canon camera has ever had to deal with as far as I can tell (why can’t the A9 access the menu while writing to the card? These are some of the most immature photographic devices ever made).
The A7RIII is basically useless for subject tracking when shooting 10 fps, and it also has worse pixel density than a crop body and is reduced to 12 bit files. Yet it’s advertised with 15 stops of DR and 10fps subject tracking. LIES!
Regardless of whether those features work on their own limited terms, people will compare it with a 7D2 and think Sony has the better camera at peak performance when that is absolutely false.

 

[neuroanatomist]

I can achieve the exposure I want based on the VF meter and my experience, and having more stuff cluttering up the VF just gets in the way of composition

Do you play video games? Do you quickly become accustomed to the displays of each new game? Does that information impede your ability to see, navigate and act within the game? If your 1DX had available histogram you would quickly become accustomed to it and use it. Of course, you'd want to be able to assign a button to turn it on/off.

When I'm shooting events or action I don't have time for histograms, and often not even the meter. When I'm shooting on tripod, I definitely use the histogram.

My M6 has an available live histogram. I don't use it.

 

[Orangutan]

I can achieve the exposure I want based on the VF meter and my experience, and having more stuff cluttering up the VF just gets in the way of composition

Do you play video games? Do you quickly become accustomed to the displays of each new game? Does that information impede your ability to see, navigate and act within the game? If your 1DX had available histogram you would quickly become accustomed to it and use it. Of course, you'd want to be able to assign a button to turn it on/off.

When I'm shooting events or action I don't have time for histograms, and often not even the meter. When I'm shooting on tripod, I definitely use the histogram.

My M6 has an available live histogram. I don't use it.

Have you tried it?

 

[9VIII]

https://www.change.org/p/sony-remove-the-star-eater-on-sony-a7-a7s-r-mk-i-ii-and-a9-cameras

Oh my goodness this just keeps getting better!
I’m practically rolling on the ground laughing.

Sony can’t shoot Astro, at all. Their long exposure noise reduction erases the stars.

It’s a miracle Sony hasn’t been laughed out of the industry.

 

[privatebydesign]

I can achieve the exposure I want based on the VF meter and my experience, and having more stuff cluttering up the VF just gets in the way of composition

Do you play video games? Do you quickly become accustomed to the displays of each new game? Does that information impede your ability to see, navigate and act within the game? If your 1DX had available histogram you would quickly become accustomed to it and use it. Of course, you'd want to be able to assign a button to turn it on/off.

When I'm shooting events or action I don't have time for histograms, and often not even the meter. When I'm shooting on tripod, I definitely use the histogram.

My M6 has an available live histogram. I don't use it.

Have you tried it?

I have, I hate it, far too distracting and takes too much real estate.

 

[candc]

I can achieve the exposure I want based on the VF meter and my experience, and having more stuff cluttering up the VF just gets in the way of composition

Do you play video games? Do you quickly become accustomed to the displays of each new game? Does that information impede your ability to see, navigate and act within the game? If your 1DX had available histogram you would quickly become accustomed to it and use it. Of course, you'd want to be able to assign a button to turn it on/off.

When I'm shooting events or action I don't have time for histograms, and often not even the meter. When I'm shooting on tripod, I definitely use the histogram.

My M6 has an available live histogram. I don't use it.

Have you tried it?

I have, I hate it, far too distracting and takes too much real estate.

I found the live histogram to be very useful for me to be able to better judge proper exposure compensation. I think it's a useful learning tool. I don't rely on it much anymore but it helped me so I think it a nice feature to have available.

 

[privatebydesign]

I can achieve the exposure I want based on the VF meter and my experience, and having more stuff cluttering up the VF just gets in the way of composition

Do you play video games? Do you quickly become accustomed to the displays of each new game? Does that information impede your ability to see, navigate and act within the game? If your 1DX had available histogram you would quickly become accustomed to it and use it. Of course, you'd want to be able to assign a button to turn it on/off.

When I'm shooting events or action I don't have time for histograms, and often not even the meter. When I'm shooting on tripod, I definitely use the histogram.

My M6 has an available live histogram. I don't use it.

Have you tried it?

I have, I hate it, far too distracting and takes too much real estate.

I found the live histogram to be very useful for me to be able to better judge proper exposure compensation. I think it's a useful learning tool. I don't rely on it much anymore but it helped me so I think it a nice feature to have available.

And that neatly leads back into the point I made earlier, we all value different features/bells and whistles more or less than each other. To me as a feature live histogram has no value, to others it might be the deciding factor in buying a camera.

But criticizing each other because you are in need, or not, of a particular feature is pointless and now all top flight cameras are within a spitting distance of each other in any metric it just makes so little sense.

I've used lens adapters, I hate them, I love the lens selection Canon give me, others will happily use their Canon lenses via adapters on any number of cameras. To me that makes absolutely no sense, to them it is the reason they got whatever camera it is they have. I am not 'right' for anybody but me, and even then I am wrong sometimes and the person who is happy with adapted lenses for them is not 'wrong'.

 

[Jopa]

https://www.change.org/p/sony-remove-the-star-eater-on-sony-a7-a7s-r-mk-i-ii-and-a9-cameras

Oh my goodness this just keeps getting better!
I’m practically rolling on the ground laughing.

Sony can’t shoot Astro, at all. Their long exposure noise reduction erases the stars.

It’s a miracle Sony hasn’t been laughed out of the industry.

Oh wow. Low noise at all costs!

 

[candc]

I can achieve the exposure I want based on the VF meter and my experience, and having more stuff cluttering up the VF just gets in the way of composition

Do you play video games? Do you quickly become accustomed to the displays of each new game? Does that information impede your ability to see, navigate and act within the game? If your 1DX had available histogram you would quickly become accustomed to it and use it. Of course, you'd want to be able to assign a button to turn it on/off.

When I'm shooting events or action I don't have time for histograms, and often not even the meter. When I'm shooting on tripod, I definitely use the histogram.

My M6 has an available live histogram. I don't use it.

Have you tried it?

I have, I hate it, far too distracting and takes too much real estate.

I found the live histogram to be very useful for me to be able to better judge proper exposure compensation. I think it's a useful learning tool. I don't rely on it much anymore but it helped me so I think it a nice feature to have available.

And that neatly leads back into the point I made earlier, we all value different features/bells and whistles more or less than each other. To me as a feature live histogram has no value, to others it might be the deciding factor in buying a camera.

But criticizing each other because you are in need, or not, of a particular feature is pointless and now all top flight cameras are within a spitting distance of each other in any metric it just makes so little sense.

I've used lens adapters, I hate them, I love the lens selection Canon give me, others will happily use their Canon lenses via adapters on any number of cameras. To me that makes absolutely no sense, to them it is the reason they got whatever camera it is they have. I am not 'right' for anybody but me, and even then I am wrong sometimes and the person who is happy with adapted lenses for them is not 'wrong'.

Truenuf, all the debate over video capability is grand example of that.

P.s. one of the main reasons I got the a7rii was to use my old fd lenses. Turns out most of the ones I had weren't that great so I had to get better fd lenses!

 

[Hector1970]

Sony have all the best features. It's a disgrace the 6DII doesn't have a star eater option. It's 2017 for crying out loud. Get with it Canon.

https://www.change.org/p/sony-remove-the-star-eater-on-sony-a7-a7s-r-mk-i-ii-and-a9-cameras

Oh my goodness this just keeps getting better!
I’m practically rolling on the ground laughing.

Sony can’t shoot Astro, at all. Their long exposure noise reduction erases the stars.

It’s a miracle Sony hasn’t been laughed out of the industry.

 

[Talys]

Live histogram is like viewfinder zebra - by chasing the perfect exposure, you give up composition. Oh, no -- I'm going to blow out that strip of white! White's fixed, BOOM, shot's gone.

Exposure is not very complicated, and you learn by making mistakes. Get out, shoot, learn to use those dials, and sooner, rather than later, you'll have well-exposed photos, and be comfortable enough with your gear to know when AE will need correction. Or, how many stops you can get out of your flash/bounced flash/whatever. If you rely on viewfinder tech, you never learn to expose photos correctly -- or how far your gear will let you fix things in post.

Sony have all the best features. It's a disgrace the 6DII doesn't have a star eater option. It's 2017 for crying out loud. Get with it Canon.

Star Eater sounds awesome. Next, there should be Bird Eater and Baby Eater! And for sports shooters, Ball Eater.

I can't believe there are 6000+ on the petition. It is pretty hilarious.