Off Brand: Sony Announces the Full-frame a7R III

[neuroanatomist]

I can achieve the exposure I want based on the VF meter and my experience, and having more stuff cluttering up the VF just gets in the way of composition

Do you play video games? Do you quickly become accustomed to the displays of each new game? Does that information impede your ability to see, navigate and act within the game? If your 1DX had available histogram you would quickly become accustomed to it and use it. Of course, you'd want to be able to assign a button to turn it on/off.

When I'm shooting events or action I don't have time for histograms, and often not even the meter. When I'm shooting on tripod, I definitely use the histogram.

My M6 has an available live histogram. I don't use it.

Have you tried it?

You seem awfully insistent about this, so let me be clear: I have tried it, on multiple occasions. I don't like it. I don't want it. I don't need it. I can reliably achieve the exposures I want without it. I don't use it. My 1D X can display one on the rear LCD in live view. I have tried it. I don't like it. I don't want it. I don't need it. I can reliably achieve the exposures I want without it. I don't use it.

 

[privatebydesign]

I can achieve the exposure I want based on the VF meter and my experience, and having more stuff cluttering up the VF just gets in the way of composition

Do you play video games? Do you quickly become accustomed to the displays of each new game? Does that information impede your ability to see, navigate and act within the game? If your 1DX had available histogram you would quickly become accustomed to it and use it. Of course, you'd want to be able to assign a button to turn it on/off.

When I'm shooting events or action I don't have time for histograms, and often not even the meter. When I'm shooting on tripod, I definitely use the histogram.

My M6 has an available live histogram. I don't use it.

Have you tried it?

You seem awfully insistent about this, so let me be clear: I have tried it, on multiple occasions. I don't like it. I don't want it. I don't need it. I can reliably achieve the exposures I want without it. I don't use it. My 1D X can display one on the rear LCD in live view. I have tried it. I don't like it. I don't want it. I don't need it. I can reliably achieve the exposures I want without it. I don't use it.

So what are you saying? You’d like to give the feature a try but your Canons don’t support the feature?

 

[Orangutan]

I can achieve the exposure I want based on the VF meter and my experience, and having more stuff cluttering up the VF just gets in the way of composition

Do you play video games? Do you quickly become accustomed to the displays of each new game? Does that information impede your ability to see, navigate and act within the game? If your 1DX had available histogram you would quickly become accustomed to it and use it. Of course, you'd want to be able to assign a button to turn it on/off.

When I'm shooting events or action I don't have time for histograms, and often not even the meter. When I'm shooting on tripod, I definitely use the histogram.

My M6 has an available live histogram. I don't use it.

Have you tried it?

You seem awfully insistent about this,

How do you mean? I asked one simple follow-up. That hardly counts as "awfully insistent."

Oh, now I get it: you found a new (quasi) humorous image, and you were itching to use it. What a waste of Brando's acting skills, I think he needs a new meme-manager.

 

[Orangutan]

Live histogram is like viewfinder zebra - by chasing the perfect exposure, you give up composition. Oh, no -- I'm going to blow out that strip of white! White's fixed, BOOM, shot's gone.

Exposure is not very complicated, and you learn by making mistakes.

It depends on what you're shooting. On tripod, shooting a stream in a forest in dappled light -- for that a histogram is great. There are situations where there is no time for histogram or zebras, that's true. Do you also disparage the use of a dedicated spot-meter for studio work?

 

[snoke]

Live histogram is like viewfinder zebra - by chasing the perfect exposure, you give up composition. Oh, no -- I'm going to blow out that strip of white! White's fixed, BOOM, shot's gone.

Which you take most photo? Av? Tv? M? P? Bulb? C1? C2? C3? Ca?


New canonrumor meme: Live Histogram in EVF bad.
Why bad?
Sony feature. No Canon have it.

Old canonrumor meme: good DR bad.
Why bad?
Canon camera have bad DR. Then Canon fix it. Meme less problem now.

Who make memes? People take not many photo.

 

[privatebydesign]

Live histogram is like viewfinder zebra - by chasing the perfect exposure, you give up composition. Oh, no -- I'm going to blow out that strip of white! White's fixed, BOOM, shot's gone.

Which you take most photo? Av? Tv? M? P? Bulb? C1? C2? C3? Ca?


New canonrumor meme: Live Histogram in EVF bad.
Why bad?
Sony feature. No Canon have it.

Old canonrumor meme: good DR bad.
Why bad?
Canon camera have bad DR. Then Canon fix it. Meme less problem now.

Who make memes? People take not many photo.

I hate that crap.

Nobody here has ever said “good DR bad” or anything close to it. What people have said is how much difference does the difference make most of the time to most users in most situations? And the answer to that is that for most people most of the time the difference in one two or three stops makes no difference at all.

Nobody has said inviewfinder histograms are bad, just that as a feature they are not something universally desired. I don’t want one, I find less viewfinder information an advantage, but that’s me, if my camera has one i’ll turn it off, if I don’t have the option to turn it off I probably won’t buy the camera. What is unreasonable about that?

 

[neuroanatomist]

New canonrumor meme: Live Histogram in EVF bad.
Why bad?
Sony feature. No Canon have it.

Yeah, that must be it. It couldn't possibly be that someone might simply have no use or desire for the feature. It couldn't possibly be that someone might feel that way even after trying the feature.

:

good DR bad.

Said no one, ever.

Well, that's not true...CR trolls have certainly misrepresented the position of other members in just that way. I assumed everyone else was intelligent enough to see through such a puerile ploy, but evidently not.

 

[Orangutan]

Live histogram is like viewfinder zebra - by chasing the perfect exposure, you give up composition. Oh, no -- I'm going to blow out that strip of white! White's fixed, BOOM, shot's gone.

Which you take most photo? Av? Tv? M? P? Bulb? C1? C2? C3? Ca?


New canonrumor meme: Live Histogram in EVF bad.
Why bad?
Sony feature. No Canon have it.

Old canonrumor meme: good DR bad.
Why bad?
Canon camera have bad DR. Then Canon fix it. Meme less problem now.

Who make memes? People take not many photo.

I hate that crap.

Nobody here has ever said “good DR bad” or anything close to it. What people have said is how much difference does the difference make most of the time to most users in most situations? And the answer to that is that for most people most of the time the difference in one two or three stops makes no difference at all.

Nobody has said inviewfinder histograms are bad, just that as a feature they are not something universally desired. I don’t want one, I find less viewfinder information an advantage, but that’s me, if my camera has one i’ll turn it off, if I don’t have the option to turn it off I probably won’t buy the camera. What is unreasonable about that?

+1

 

[Talys]

Live histogram is like viewfinder zebra - by chasing the perfect exposure, you give up composition. Oh, no -- I'm going to blow out that strip of white! White's fixed, BOOM, shot's gone.

Exposure is not very complicated, and you learn by making mistakes.

It depends on what you're shooting. On tripod, shooting a stream in a forest in dappled light -- for that a histogram is great. There are situations where there is no time for histogram or zebras, that's true. Do you also disparage the use of a dedicated spot-meter for studio work?

I'm not disparaging auto exposure or the tools to help you get a better exposure. What I'm saying is that when you take a few dappled light photos and mess them up (possibly on the viewfinder, but more likely at post, when they won't work out the way you thought they would), you learn pretty quickly what you did wrong.

Then, next time, you know to turn down (or up) the exposure 2/3 stop or whatever when it's a similar situation, and neato, you have a better photo. As you gain experience, those adjustments become automatic. I don't need a histogram or zebras to tell me that when I'm photographing a bird or a building that has a in important white area of detail that I need to underexpose and that it doesn't hurt to turn the dial a notch down further and take another shot just to be safe.

I think the histogram is very useful (and educational) in post, but in the moment, for me, in the viewfinder is a distraction, and with any subject where time is a factor, you can lose the moment by trying to fix the exposure. Among other issues I have with a VF histogram, it just eats up a ton of space.

I own a sekonic, but frankly, I went most of my life without one. If the lighting isn't complicated, I often don't pull it out now, because I know what kind of exposures I need at all the power levels that I like to dial in with my favorite strobe configurations. I'm going to take hours of shots with a lighting configuration, I'll look at the histogram -- but I'll also open the RAW on a laptop to ensure that I like what I see, possibly make adjustments, and also ensure that there aren't any other weird problems like moires.

The other thing is that it's possible to over-rely on histograms and light meters. It's entire possible that both suggest one thing, but when I look at my photos, it just looks better slightly more or less exposed (or, I would make that adjustment in post anyhow). Again, a bit of experience tells me the type of subjects that I like to vary from what the numbers theoretically say is ideal, because most accurate isn't always the same as most appealing.

New canonrumor meme: Live Histogram in EVF bad.
Why bad?
Sony feature. No Canon have it.

No, features are not bad, when I don't like them, as long as I can turn it off. There are LOTS of Canon features I also don't use.

However, I'm perfectly within my rights to say that I prefer an uncluttered viewfinder and to go with the auto exposure shot, perhaps corrected by what my gut tells me.

And nobody said that more DR is bad. However, it might be unnecessary, it should not be a limiting factor to amazing photography when compared with various pro cameras with a little less DR, and it might not outweigh other factors. But all things being equal, yes, sure, I'd love whatever extra DR is available.

 

[snoke]

Nobody has said inviewfinder histograms are bad, just that as a feature they are not something universally desired. I don’t want one, I find less viewfinder information an advantage, but that’s me, if my camera has one i’ll turn it off, if I don’t have the option to turn it off I probably won’t buy the camera. What is unreasonable about that?

When man make car, what people want? Faster horses.

Everyone agree, ETTR for good quality, yes?

Can't see right in OVF. ETTR difficult with OVF.

Histogram in EVF make ETTR better.

But not everyone want ETTR. ETTR only good if time for photoshop.

 

[snoke]

I'm not disparaging auto exposure or the tools to help you get a better exposure. What I'm saying is that when you take a few dappled light photos and mess them up (possibly on the viewfinder, but more likely at post, when they won't work out the way you thought they would), you learn pretty quickly what you did wrong.

Digital film free. Learn AEB.

 

[Talys]

I'm not disparaging auto exposure or the tools to help you get a better exposure. What I'm saying is that when you take a few dappled light photos and mess them up (possibly on the viewfinder, but more likely at post, when they won't work out the way you thought they would), you learn pretty quickly what you did wrong.

Digital film free. Learn AEB.

Or not, because I don't want to have 1,800 photos to go through after a couple of hours of birding, instead of 600. I'd rather just take the extra shot the 5 times that I think I might need it.

 

[Jopa]

Live histogram is like viewfinder zebra - by chasing the perfect exposure, you give up composition. Oh, no -- I'm going to blow out that strip of white! White's fixed, BOOM, shot's gone.

Which you take most photo? Av? Tv? M? P? Bulb? C1? C2? C3? Ca?


New canonrumor meme: Live Histogram in EVF bad.
Why bad?
Sony feature. No Canon have it.

Old canonrumor meme: good DR bad.
Why bad?
Canon camera have bad DR. Then Canon fix it. Meme less problem now.

Who make memes? People take not many photo.

I can barely understand what are you trying to say. Is that some kind of new lolcat dialect?

Just in case here's my question translated to this dialect:
"I cant understand what you say? yes? no? Who make lolcat talk? Lolcats do."

 

[candc]

Live histogram is like viewfinder zebra - by chasing the perfect exposure, you give up composition. Oh, no -- I'm going to blow out that strip of white! White's fixed, BOOM, shot's gone.

Exposure is not very complicated, and you learn by making mistakes.

It depends on what you're shooting. On tripod, shooting a stream in a forest in dappled light -- for that a histogram is great. There are situations where there is no time for histogram or zebras, that's true. Do you also disparage the use of a dedicated spot-meter for studio work?

I'm not disparaging auto exposure or the tools to help you get a better exposure. What I'm saying is that when you take a few dappled light photos and mess them up (possibly on the viewfinder, but more likely at post, when they won't work out the way you thought they would), you learn pretty quickly what you did wrong.

Then, next time, you know to turn down (or up) the exposure 2/3 stop or whatever when it's a similar situation, and neato, you have a better photo. As you gain experience, those adjustments become automatic. I don't need a histogram or zebras to tell me that when I'm photographing a bird or a building that has a in important white area of detail that I need to underexpose and that it doesn't hurt to turn the dial a notch down further and take another shot just to be safe.

I think the histogram is very useful (and educational) in post, but in the moment, for me, in the viewfinder is a distraction, and with any subject where time is a factor, you can lose the moment by trying to fix the exposure. Among other issues I have with a VF histogram, it just eats up a ton of space.

I own a sekonic, but frankly, I went most of my life without one. If the lighting isn't complicated, I often don't pull it out now, because I know what kind of exposures I need at all the power levels that I like to dial in with my favorite strobe configurations. I'm going to take hours of shots with a lighting configuration, I'll look at the histogram -- but I'll also open the RAW on a laptop to ensure that I like what I see, possibly make adjustments, and also ensure that there aren't any other weird problems like moires.

The other thing is that it's possible to over-rely on histograms and light meters. It's entire possible that both suggest one thing, but when I look at my photos, it just looks better slightly more or less exposed (or, I would make that adjustment in post anyhow). Again, a bit of experience tells me the type of subjects that I like to vary from what the numbers theoretically say is ideal, because most accurate isn't always the same as most appealing.

New canonrumor meme: Live Histogram in EVF bad.
Why bad?
Sony feature. No Canon have it.

No, features are not bad, when I don't like them, as long as I can turn it off. There are LOTS of Canon features I also don't use.

However, I'm perfectly within my rights to say that I prefer an uncluttered viewfinder and to go with the auto exposure shot, perhaps corrected by what my gut tells me.

And nobody said that more DR is bad. However, it might be unnecessary, it should not be a limiting factor to amazing photography when compared with various pro cameras with a little less DR, and it might not outweigh other factors. But all things being equal, yes, sure, I'd love whatever extra DR is available.

the vf histogram on sony cameras is pretty small in the bottom corner. i don't really like a cluttered viewfinder either. i generally don't use levels, grids and turn off excess info. with an evf: wysiwyg so the histogram can be somewhat redundant. i think an option to have a live vf histogram would be even more useful on a dslr where you don't have exposure preview in the viewfinder to begin with.

 

[Dylan777]

As privatebydesign and Neuro mentioned, they both preferred not to have too much info on their VF and I respect their decision. Most pro(s) are likely already know the proper ways to get better exp. in any lighting condition. Happened to me quite often with my 1dx = I was shooting school events outdoor/sunny( -1ish under exp.), then events moved into old gym. I didn't re-adjust the exp. due to things happened too quickly. All my shots were -1ish under exp. Can I blame my 1dx for this = no. Is there technology that can help me to prevent this unintentional exp. from happening again? = yes.

For me, I use EVF as a gate keeper. It's almost impossible not to adjust the exp. when my eyes see extreme highly/shadow through EVF.

Have a great sunday everyone.

 

[Dylan777]

Eye-AF is one of great features in that bells and whistles list.

The Eye-AF is an shiny example of bells and whistles! Canon's face detection is as accurate with the only thing you can't switch the eyes - it's going to be the closest detected eye ball. But how many times in your life you needed to switch to the far eye?

I love candid style, A9 eye-af tracking does wonderful job even when my subject is looking away from camera.

Great pictures Dylan! Very cute little boy
But really, any DPAF-enabled Canon camera can track faces (and prioritizing the eyes) the same way, you just won't see squares around the eyes.

Thanks Jopa.
Visited your sites. Adorable models. Awesome candid shots

I'm looking forward to see what Canon has to offer in FF mirrorless. I'm not fanboy in any brands. Prior to Sony gear, I was Canon shooter. My last Canon body was 1dx. I do miss my 200f2 and 400f2.8 IS II when I see Viggo's shots ;D

 

[Orangutan]

I think we're saying nearly the same thing in different ways. I agree that you can't use live histogram for action, and that you may not need to for many landscapes. However, I want it to be an option on any body I might buy.

you learn pretty quickly what you did wrong.... Then, next time, you know to turn down (or up) the exposure 2/3 stop or whatever when it's a similar situation

If there's a shot I want right now, I'm not all that interested in the painful lesson.

I don't need a histogram or zebras to tell me that when I'm photographing a bird or a building that has a in important white area of detail that I need to underexpose and that it doesn't hurt to turn the dial a notch down further and take another shot just to be safe.

Agreed, I do not use live histograms for these kinds of shots. With a building I'll typically chimp the histogram of a sample shot (or two, or three) to get the exposure I want. For birds, it's been a long learning curve.

and with any subject where time is a factor, you can lose the moment by trying to fix the exposure.

No disagreement there, but what about the subjects where time is not a factor? Or when working at the limits of the sensor's capabilities?

Among other issues I have with a VF histogram, it just eats up a ton of space.

That's a design/UI issue, not a blanket argument against the principle.

I own a sekonic...If the lighting isn't complicated, I often don't pull it out now, because I know what kind of exposures I need at all the power levels

That's fine if it works for you. I'll bet you've been happy to have that Sekonic a few times. That's how I feel about histogram: even if I don't use it often, I want it readily available.

The other thing is that it's possible to over-rely on histograms and light meters... most accurate isn't always the same as most appealing.

Here I will dispute your premise: this is a personal issue. A photographer who can't use their final images to adjust their technique has problems that will not be solved by the absence of meters and histograms.

 

[Talys]

@Orangutan - Well, like I said, I certainly don't give a camera a minus because it has a feature I don't use. If VF histograms or zebras help with shots like the one that you took above and that's the way you like to shoot - of course, have at it - I'm happy you have the tool!

For me, I guess shooting film cameras for a couple of decades made exposure second nature, because I didn't have a choice then but to learn to get it right back then. I'm not saying that we should live in the past and deprive ourselves of tools that we have today, but it's not like those skills go away, either, and I find extra clutter -- especially in the viewfinder -- distracting, and of no real benefit to my finished product. It was also not really that painful to learn, and rather satisfying to see the improvement.

 

[9VIII]

Live histogram is like viewfinder zebra - by chasing the perfect exposure, you give up composition. Oh, no -- I'm going to blow out that strip of white! White's fixed, BOOM, shot's gone.

Which you take most photo? Av? Tv? M? P? Bulb? C1? C2? C3? Ca?


New canonrumor meme: Live Histogram in EVF bad.
Why bad?
Sony feature. No Canon have it.

Old canonrumor meme: good DR bad.
Why bad?
Canon camera have bad DR. Then Canon fix it. Meme less problem now.

Who make memes? People take not many photo.

I can barely understand what are you trying to say. Is that some kind of new lolcat dialect?

Just in case here's my question translated to this dialect:
"I cant understand what you say? yes? no? Who make lolcat talk? Lolcats do."

Judging by the consistency of the writing style I’m betting “Snoke” doesn’t speak/write English at all and posts through a translator.

 

[Jopa]

Eye-AF is one of great features in that bells and whistles list.

The Eye-AF is an shiny example of bells and whistles! Canon's face detection is as accurate with the only thing you can't switch the eyes - it's going to be the closest detected eye ball. But how many times in your life you needed to switch to the far eye?

I love candid style, A9 eye-af tracking does wonderful job even when my subject is looking away from camera.

Great pictures Dylan! Very cute little boy
But really, any DPAF-enabled Canon camera can track faces (and prioritizing the eyes) the same way, you just won't see squares around the eyes.

Thanks Jopa.
Visited your sites. Adorable models. Awesome candid shots

I'm looking forward to see what Canon has to offer in FF mirrorless. I'm not fanboy in any brands. Prior to Sony gear, I was Canon shooter. My last Canon body was 1dx. I do miss my 200f2 and 400f2.8 IS II when I see Viggo's shots ;D

Thank you Dylan. I'm not a brand fanboy neither, but I'm probably an optics fanboy in general I was a Sony shooter but eventually had to move to Canon because I've got quite a few Canon lenses which weren't available for Sony. It started simply from MF Zeiss glass for my old A7r. Later when I got the Sigma 120-300S and a few big whites - I realized my Sony camera (it as the A7r2 at that moment) can't efficiently AF them. I quit using it. It was collecting dust for a few month, and I ended up selling it. I don't have the 400/2.8 II, but the 200/2, 300/2.8 II and 600/4 II are 3 reasons I'm not changing camera brands in the near future They work great on the 1DX2 but paired with the 5DsR they produce a mind blowing amount of details.

Same as you I'm very looking forward to see a Canon mirrorless one day. I hope they will keep the EF mount though