Patent: Canon Improved Mirror, AF at High FPS & EVF

Canon Rumors

Who Dey
Canon Rumors Premium
Jul 20, 2010
12,753
5,577
279,596
Canada
www.canonrumors.com
HTML:
I had trouble understanding this patent, which covers a lot of different variables. <a href="http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/cameras/Canon_rumours.html" target="_blank">Keith at Northlight</a> breaks it down:</p>
<blockquote><p>An interesting Canon patent reverses a fixed semitransparent mirror, to just divert light to a phase AF unit, whilst an EVF appears where the focus screen would be.</p></blockquote>
<p>Patent Publication No. 2015-97352 (Google Translated)</p>
<ul>
<li>Published 2015.5.21</li>
<li>Filing date 2013.11.15</li>
</ul>
<p>Canon patents</p>
<ul>
<li>Half mirror and the optical path division by</li>
<li>One of the light beam received by the image pickup device</li>
<li>The other light flux I receive in AF sensor</li>
<li>FPS of the AF sensor, faster than the image pickup device</li>
<li>Pixel area of ​​the AF sensor is larger than the image pickup device</li>
<li>From the AF sensor and the image sensor to obtain an image to be displayed on the EVF or back display</li>
</ul>
 
Hm... isn't the "fixed mirror thing" already used by Sony's SLT cameras?

Interesting that everyone thinks of Sony in SLT ;) Canon made it 10 years earlier and skipped it because of it's disadvantages back then. Today it may come back because of the High ISO Sensors and the EVF-Concept but if you look right at it, the Mirror is reversed (as mentioned).
 
Upvote 0
... not to forget 1 N RS ... - but I don't understand what this will do with EVF ... EVF in a system camera reduces the depth of the body itself, the mechanic of the mirror-box is not necessary any more. What we see here is a new version os pellicle-mirror - as said here. What is the "new" there? What makes this possible to improve significantly?

J.
 
Upvote 0
I think the point of adopting the pellicle mirror again is to answer critics (to some extent) that they have no mirrorless solution AND to keep the EOS lenses relevant.

If they were to go in the Sony direction they would have to solve the migration to the small body challenge.
This would allow them to offer EVFs, high frame rates,and to maintain the legacy lens line.
I see this as a stop gap measure was Sony did.
 
Upvote 0
emko said:
is this so that EVF can keep focusing while taking pictures as the light is still being sent to the AF sensor?
The light reflected by the pellicle mirror goes to PDAF sensors in the floor of the mirror box. The light going to the sensor then feeds an EVF. This provides fast AF and a bridge to a quad-mirrorless design without obsoleting the EOS mount.
Sony has this setup with the A77II and A99. It allows fast frame rate and accurate tracking. Those cameras use the A mount from Minolta days. The new A7/R/S cameras use the FE mount which has a much shorter flange to sensor distance as they have no mirror.
 
Upvote 0
vscd said:
Short question... as I never owned one, but back in the film-days: Did the camera compensate the ISO of the film by itself (longer exposure and normal ISO-Setting) or did the user have to adjust the ISO manually?

Most film cameras you set the iso manually, but by the time we got to AF film cameras they had come up with a series of blocks on the outside of the canisters that the cameras could read so they could set iso automatically. It was a pain because most pros actually exposed their film at offsets to the actual iso for various reasons. We then got cameras tht we could over ride the 'auto' iso setting and we could also buy stickers for the outside of the film canister that made the camera read the iso you actually wanted.
 
Upvote 0
vscd said:
Short question... as I never owned one, but back in the film-days: Did the camera compensate the ISO of the film by itself (longer exposure and normal ISO-Setting) or did the user have to adjust the ISO manually?

There was no such thing as ISO back in 1965. Film had a ASA rating. Cameras were totally manual, you manually focused, manually set the shutter speed, and manually set the aperture.

Some cameras had a built-in light meter, while most photographers used a hand held light meter. Since lenses decrease the amount of light, and the Pellix mirror also lost 1/3 stop, you could adjust by about 1/2 stop, but it really was not a big issue with film, since it was quite forgiving of a exposure error.
 
Upvote 0
Reading thru the patent is a bit difficult, as CR Guy mentions.

It is able to somehow use both phase detect and contrast detect autofocus and is fast enough such that AF calculations are performed at almost the same instant that the image is captured, in fact, it indicates that several AF calculations can be carried out for each shot or frame, which hints that some AF prediction is going on for very rapidly moving subjects.

This means that moving subjects, even rapidly moving ones will be in sharp focus, and obviously allows for autofocus during video.

The exact details are confusing, I read it several times and still do not entirely understand exactly how it does this so quickly, or where the data comes from to do the fast contrast detect AF.

You will lose 1/3 of your light to the AF sensor, or whatever portion the system required. This is not such a big deal with todays sensors, but fast and accurate AF is a big deal.

I did not read as to how exposure would be computed or linked to the AF point, that's a important detail. Presumably, exposure would be calculated from the sensor output, but I'd like it linked to the AF point as well. Maybe I'll read it again tomorrow when I'm not so tired :)
 
Upvote 0
There was no such thing as ISO back in 1965. Film had a ASA rating. Cameras were totally manual, you manually focused, manually set the shutter speed, and manually set the aperture.

I meant the Canon EOS 1 with Pellice, I think this one had quite a good Autoexposure ;) I'm just curious how the Film was exposed on those bodies... with the normal ISO or with a small (internal) offset to compensate the mirror...
 
Upvote 0
I'm reading the patent again this morning, this is not a Google Translated version, but is translated by the Japanese Patent Web site, so it may translate differently. Its always less than what I'd like.

What I am reading is that the half mirror (Pellicle Mirror) is fixed. A part of the image beam from the lens is deflected down to the autofocus sensor while the rest passes thru to the main image sensor.

The AF sensor is also a image sensor, but with fewer and much larger photosites than the main image sensor.

The issue that they are using a lot of formulas and difficult language describes correction of the final image by the processor. The image is distorted as it passes thru the angled pellicle mirror, and to make it worse, different colors are distorted differently, and distance from the center of the axis also has a effect.

The patent tries to explain it here:

"Since a actual beam of light exists also in the direction right-angled to the paper side of Fig.2, more complicated aberration has generated it. However, to the optic axis 4, the half mirror 20 inclines and is arranged only in the section shown in Fig.1 (a) and Fig.2 (b). For this reason, it is the aberration which has symmetry in the paper side depth direction. The beam of light which has an angle in the right-angled direction to a paper side, and the beam of light 30a shown on the paper side differ in the half mirror 20 and the angle to accomplish from the beam of light 30b. For this reason, the focus positions which become the smallest [ aberration ] differ. That is, it has astigmatism.
The situation of aberration changes also with refractive indices of the half mirror 20 from a formula (1). Therefore, the situation of aberration changes also with wavelength. Since the angle of an incident beam of light changes with image height, according to the formula (1), the situation of aberration changes also with image height."

I've copied figure 2 below if that helps. Figure 1 is just the general side view as posted in the main topic.

I do get the impression that Mr. Rube Goldberg is alive and well! I'd be surprised to see this ever appear in a production camera, but Its possible. One of their points is that it reduces cost by eliminating the complicated moving mirror mechanism. I'd like to see that go away as well, but wonder just how perfectly a inverse filter designed to cancel out the distortions during processing of the image from the pellicle mirror will actually work. Photographers are clever, and always manage to use a camera in a way that no one thought of.
 

Attachments

  • JPA_427097352_000008.gif
    JPA_427097352_000008.gif
    16.4 KB · Views: 178
Upvote 0
Mt Spokane Photography said:
vscd said:
Short question... as I never owned one, but back in the film-days: Did the camera compensate the ISO of the film by itself (longer exposure and normal ISO-Setting) or did the user have to adjust the ISO manually?

There was no such thing as ISO back in 1965.

ISO has been around since the mid 1940s (but yes, there was no ISO film speed standard until the 70s).
 
Upvote 0