People that don't shoot in manual...
- Thread starter LewisShermer
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unfocused
Photos/Photo Book Reviews: www.thecuriouseye.com
Well, I suspect that in the future Lew will be more likely to remember to engage brain before engaging keyboard. Unfortunate, because he is a good photographer.
To expand a bit on my earlier snippy comment. I spent about 30 years using "manual" on my F1. After decades of trying to manage five controls with two hands (shutter speed, f/stop, focus, film advance and shutter release)...I am sooo over manual.
The only thing I like better than the magical automation of DSLRs is the incredible magic of ETTL. You won't know what I mean unless you actually had the "joy" of trying to shoot with a potato masher strobe that took forever to recycle, had batteries that always died halfway through every assignment, used an electrical cord that broke if you looked at it and if everything did actually work, you had to guestimate how far away the subject was and then pray that you actually got an image (Oh, and don't forget to set the shutter speed dial to 1/60th or you are totally screwed and won't know it until you develop the film).
Yeah, the new technology can be overwhelming, but those good old days pretty much sucked.
Program, Aperture Priority, Shutter Priority, Manual – they'll all get you to the same place.
To expand a bit on my earlier snippy comment. I spent about 30 years using "manual" on my F1. After decades of trying to manage five controls with two hands (shutter speed, f/stop, focus, film advance and shutter release)...I am sooo over manual.
The only thing I like better than the magical automation of DSLRs is the incredible magic of ETTL. You won't know what I mean unless you actually had the "joy" of trying to shoot with a potato masher strobe that took forever to recycle, had batteries that always died halfway through every assignment, used an electrical cord that broke if you looked at it and if everything did actually work, you had to guestimate how far away the subject was and then pray that you actually got an image (Oh, and don't forget to set the shutter speed dial to 1/60th or you are totally screwed and won't know it until you develop the film).
Yeah, the new technology can be overwhelming, but those good old days pretty much sucked.
Program, Aperture Priority, Shutter Priority, Manual – they'll all get you to the same place.
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Wilmark said:LewisShermer said:
slightly tongue in cheek... I just like messing with stuff, just slightly though. There can be a happy medium when cross processing. I'm actually about half way through processing a wedding from saturday and the way I'm doing the raws is quite weird. I'm almost maxing out the contrast, bringing the highlights down to -100, using the exposure to control the white clipping and the shadows for overall exposure. I have to take a fair bit of saturation out though but compensating for that by upping the vibrance. It kinda looks cross processed already without uploading them to my phone, sending them through instagram and then to my portfolio... workflow refined
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Janbo Makimbo said:
I met a girl of the opposite sex once. It all ends in tears. Every time. I'm happy sticking with something that I have slight control over for the mean time.
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unfocused said:
+1
Yeah P gets me to where I want to be most of the time :
I can just turn the shuttle wheel to program shift in case I need a diff shutter speed or aperture value. I do have a full understanding of how the different parameters (av tv iso ec etc) affect the image , I just use what is most convenient for the situation and what I'm trying to achieve.
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Wow...what a read (I've skim read this thread). I'll give the OP the benefit of the doubt - and as he's stated in latter posts - that he was not intending to undermine other (good) photographers. It highlights the need to be very careful with wording (I do think his wording could have been softer and more tactfully and definitely more humbly phrased).
I began photography a few decades ago... and for me photography is a passion, hobby, artistic release, enjoyment of the technical, and opportunity to share photos with friends - both locally and around the world. I've lived in a number of countries, speak 5 languages, worked in various jobs including: leading charity projects in developing countries to business / marketing consulting to Christian mission work to advertising and market & social research and now am in management in federal Government - here in Australia. I've also volunteered in numerous situations for decades.
Not much 'phases' me. I've seen lots in my life - and have read, communicated and been part of communities that have shaped my life and world view. At times my directness is a bit too much for some people, so I try to learn how to speak, live and act in a way that is non offensive, while also realising that we can't please everyone. I aim to be honest with friends true to myself / my values, and seek God's grace and help with that - I know that there will be room to improve till the day I die.
I've looked over the OPs photos on his website, some of them I think exposure and dof are well controlled, but in others there can be improvements. He's doing ok for a young photographer, and still has areas to learn, develop and improve skills in. I say this without judging the post processing options he has chosen.
When it comes to assisting others with photography and/or sharing ideas, I do that regularly: many people join me for 'photo outing days', and on request I critique a lot of friends' photos. There are many people who also inspire me with their photography, techniques, artistic ability and skills. Some photos, while technically 'excellent' don't 'speak' to me. I dislike 'non-realistic' colours, effects, frames, etc. Just give me what I see, but capture it in a way that tells the story clearly, with strong powerful accurate images (actually very hard to do). Readers might be able to deduct that I'm not in to fashion / studio photography, for example. ;D
As to my own shooting style, I prefer Av about 85% to 90% of the time. In certain situations (eg some sports, or moving subjects) I use Tv. I also use M - eg for some flash situations, panoramas, night exposures, etc. I've learned how to use Av (along with exposure compensation) to be a very powerful as extremely quick to use solution - being able to control DOF and shutter speed. At times I use Auto ISO (probably about 30%), but most times I set ISO manually.
I hope my input here was helpful, folks. Enjoy your photography all! 8)
Regards
Paul
I began photography a few decades ago... and for me photography is a passion, hobby, artistic release, enjoyment of the technical, and opportunity to share photos with friends - both locally and around the world. I've lived in a number of countries, speak 5 languages, worked in various jobs including: leading charity projects in developing countries to business / marketing consulting to Christian mission work to advertising and market & social research and now am in management in federal Government - here in Australia. I've also volunteered in numerous situations for decades.
Not much 'phases' me. I've seen lots in my life - and have read, communicated and been part of communities that have shaped my life and world view. At times my directness is a bit too much for some people, so I try to learn how to speak, live and act in a way that is non offensive, while also realising that we can't please everyone. I aim to be honest with friends true to myself / my values, and seek God's grace and help with that - I know that there will be room to improve till the day I die.
I've looked over the OPs photos on his website, some of them I think exposure and dof are well controlled, but in others there can be improvements. He's doing ok for a young photographer, and still has areas to learn, develop and improve skills in. I say this without judging the post processing options he has chosen.
When it comes to assisting others with photography and/or sharing ideas, I do that regularly: many people join me for 'photo outing days', and on request I critique a lot of friends' photos. There are many people who also inspire me with their photography, techniques, artistic ability and skills. Some photos, while technically 'excellent' don't 'speak' to me. I dislike 'non-realistic' colours, effects, frames, etc. Just give me what I see, but capture it in a way that tells the story clearly, with strong powerful accurate images (actually very hard to do). Readers might be able to deduct that I'm not in to fashion / studio photography, for example. ;D
As to my own shooting style, I prefer Av about 85% to 90% of the time. In certain situations (eg some sports, or moving subjects) I use Tv. I also use M - eg for some flash situations, panoramas, night exposures, etc. I've learned how to use Av (along with exposure compensation) to be a very powerful as extremely quick to use solution - being able to control DOF and shutter speed. At times I use Auto ISO (probably about 30%), but most times I set ISO manually.
I hope my input here was helpful, folks. Enjoy your photography all! 8)
Regards
Paul
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J.R. said:rpt said:+1LewisShermer said:cayenne said:BoneDoc said:I realize there are car afficionados out there who love their stick shift, but why not take advantage of the dual clutch auto and all the extra speed it gives you
Oh man..you had the analogy going VERY well, until the end there with the car attempt....<P>
For a sports car, especially a high end sports car, you want a manual transmission...if not for resale value, but for performance.
You're generally gonna get the better times and stats with manual over automatic, if you know how to drive the manual...
I've never owned a car with auto transmission, and only one car have I ever owned had more than 2 seats (that one was an '86 911 Turbo, but those rear seats aren't really useable for anything but 2x bags of groceries).....
LOL...anyway, good thoughts on the camera, but ugh...a sports car with auto transmission? A waste of good steel....
OMGzzzz!!1!!one!1!!!!!! I'd never even drive an automatic! I am British though, and those things are quite rare here. Why would you let the car decide what gear you need to be in?
I'm possibly the only person that will survive when the robots take over, it appears.
Driving an automatic is like shooting in the green rectangle mode.
Is that so? I shoot manual mostly and not averse to shooting in the AV/TV mode. However, I do drive automatic cars but thats probably because I don't want to make a gazillion gear shifts while driving on the streets in New Delhi.
Well, if driving an automatic is ok, and in the future owning and using a driverless car is ok, why trash the green rectangle or the P mode...
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RLPhoto said:
It is, could you elaborate? You control ambient via ec, imho Av is very handy when lighting changes on every other shot, esp. if you're able to select a min. shutter speed (newer cameras or Magic Lantern).
neuroanatomist said:
Did I mention Magic Lantern does this for the rest of us ("ML Auto ISO"), providing the level of control like the newer and expensive cameras (min/max iso, min. shutter in av, min. aperture in tv, ec on m) ... but you wouldn't know about programming your camera, would you, mr. 1dx
?For all the M mode fanatics: The newest ml builds have a "autoexpo function", you can define your own aperture curve and then some, imho this a terrific feature: http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=7208.0
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J.R. said:
+1. I shoot manual most of the time but may shoot in Av/Tv modes depending on the situation. Likewise, I would prefer manual transmission cars when driving in the countryside but would prefer to drive automatic cars when driving in downtown Manila! :-\
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As with all things it depends on the light. When I'm out and about shooting, I tend to focus on the composition and making sure my subject is in focus. Based on the type of light I'm using, I may decide to shoot in manual, indoors with consistent light controlling aperture (always), shutter speed and iso. But if it is a partly cloudy day and clouds are passing over the sun and then just as quickly going passed, then I will go with aperture priority and rely on the camera to pay attention that the sun was just covered up by 1/2 a cloud. Otherwise, I'll wind up with images that are either blown out and overexposed or underexposed.
Then there are times where I will just focus on shutter speed and aperture and I let the iso vary. I've done that before.. .but I don't recall the situation.
For the longest time, I shot only in .jpg... and that wasn't because I was lazy, but because I didn't have software that recognized .cr2. Then i got LR4 and I couldn't figure out how to import... Click and drag didn't work and neither did open with lr when I right clicked. It was annoying... but after I did... then that is all I shoot in now.
So as with most things, it is a learning curve. I can proudly say, I have never shot in full auto.
Then there are times where I will just focus on shutter speed and aperture and I let the iso vary. I've done that before.. .but I don't recall the situation.
For the longest time, I shot only in .jpg... and that wasn't because I was lazy, but because I didn't have software that recognized .cr2. Then i got LR4 and I couldn't figure out how to import... Click and drag didn't work and neither did open with lr when I right clicked. It was annoying... but after I did... then that is all I shoot in now.
So as with most things, it is a learning curve. I can proudly say, I have never shot in full auto.
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rpt said:J.R. said:rpt said:+1LewisShermer said:cayenne said:BoneDoc said:I realize there are car afficionados out there who love their stick shift, but why not take advantage of the dual clutch auto and all the extra speed it gives you
Oh man..you had the analogy going VERY well, until the end there with the car attempt....<P>
For a sports car, especially a high end sports car, you want a manual transmission...if not for resale value, but for performance.
You're generally gonna get the better times and stats with manual over automatic, if you know how to drive the manual...
I've never owned a car with auto transmission, and only one car have I ever owned had more than 2 seats (that one was an '86 911 Turbo, but those rear seats aren't really useable for anything but 2x bags of groceries).....
LOL...anyway, good thoughts on the camera, but ugh...a sports car with auto transmission? A waste of good steel....
OMGzzzz!!1!!one!1!!!!!! I'd never even drive an automatic! I am British though, and those things are quite rare here. Why would you let the car decide what gear you need to be in?
I'm possibly the only person that will survive when the robots take over, it appears.
Driving an automatic is like shooting in the green rectangle mode.
Is that so? I shoot manual mostly and not averse to shooting in the AV/TV mode. However, I do drive automatic cars but thats probably because I don't want to make a gazillion gear shifts while driving on the streets in New Delhi.
Well, if driving an automatic is ok, and in the future owning and using a driverless car is ok, why trash the green rectangle or the P mode...
That is why I got the 5D3 and not the 1DX so that I could shoot in the green rectangle mode ... oh wait, that is used when I need to hand over the camera to someone else to take my picture ...
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rmt3rd said:
Agreed. When I'm in that sort of environment where I'm sitting in one place for hours and have plenty of time to set settings, I'm likely to shoot full manual, sometimes tweaking aperture to achieve the desired DOF (if there's enough light to give me any real flexibility without smearing motion too badly).
I find shooting in full manual to be doubly important for things like stage plays where the lighting can be uneven and faces are frequently blown out with automatic exposure.
For day-to-day shooting, though, I'm usually rushed and have no more than a few seconds seconds to get a shot, so I stay in P mode because getting the shot at all is more important than tweaking the shot to maximize IQ or get a desired DOF. Or maybe I'm just lazy. Hard to say.
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RLPhoto
Gear doesn't matter, Just a Matter of Convenience.
Marsu42 said:RLPhoto said:
It is, could you elaborate? You control ambient via ec, imho Av is very handy when lighting changes on every other shot, esp. if you're able to select a min. shutter speed (newer cameras or Magic Lantern).
neuroanatomist said:
Did I mention Magic Lantern does this for the rest of us ("ML Auto ISO"), providing the level of control like the newer and expensive cameras (min/max iso, min. shutter in av, min. aperture in tv, ec on m) ... but you wouldn't know about programming your camera, would you, mr. 1dx
For all the M mode fanatics: The newest ml builds have a "autoexpo function", you can define your own aperture curve and then some, imho this a terrific feature: http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=7208.0
ISO and aperture will affect both the ambient and flash exposure. The only control that affects just ambient is shutter speed. Lets take a indoor dance floor at a reception for example and your bouncing flash around.
So if your in Av... Your letting the camera decide how much ambient light will be in the exposure. A pain in the butt if light is constantly changing then you'll end up with a Coalminers cave and/or swirly lights at the cameras whim because it can be decieved by a bright spotlight or something else.
If you use Tv, then you control the ambient exposure but your DOF will be all over the place.
Now ETTL II does a good job at controlling how much flash to let out and not burning the subject white, but it has no control how much ambient light will be mixed in. You can try -1 expo comp and +1 flash comp to get something ok, but it still gets in the damn way if the meter catches a bight light source. I found it a frustrating experience to keep dialing in comp instead of just setting it once and use the flash ETTL.
Now outdoors overcast, you can get away with Av and flash because the light stays the same but you still give the ambient control to the camera....
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RLPhoto said:
Precisely why I stay on manual in receptions and other event work. ETTL flash (or any TTL or auto flash scheme) CAN be good but so frequently leads the camera astray. In film days we say wild swings on exposure but as we were on neg film we were saved by the lab.
This gave us a false sense of security in the accuracy of ETTL. In digital we chimp and adjust thus defeating the speed advantage allegedly afforded by the technology.
Anybody remember the Nikkor 45 GN lens? Set the guide number of the flash and the lens would adjust aperture based on focus distance. Perfect exposure every time. Nice sharp pancake lens to boot.
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alipaulphotography said:
Haven't yet. It takes about 0.5 second to change two stops of shutter speed. Takes maybe two-three seconds to adjust both shutter and ISO.
Twill take too much time is an excuse to many people to not learn how to read light and exposure demands. It's not hard, I learned about it reading Birds As Art (birdsasart-blog.com).
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