POLL: The 2nd ff camera in 2014 will be...

[unfocused]

Since I bought my 5D3 last year, the yen has fallen 25% against the US dollar. That means that Canon effectively has an additional 25% headroom available to make changes to a model before they have to increase the price...

No. With a multinational company like Canon, the impact of the exchange rate cannot be so simply explained. They have many expenses that are in U.S. dollars, as well of dozens of other currencies. To take just one small example: all of their U.S. expenses (salaries, shipping costs, discounts to dealers, advertising expenses, etc. etc.) must be paid in U.S. dollars, which means they become more expensive when the Yen falls in value.

The U.S. market is important, but not even the largest market for Canon products any more. An ever-growing percentage of their sales comes from China, while European sales also represent a substantial portion of their market as well. Just as in the U.S., they have substantial expenses in these markets that must be paid in the local currency.

It is a gross oversimplification to assume that changes in the exchange rate have so simple of an impact on expenses.

 

[RLPhoto]

I see a high MP body but what I really want to see is some new glass. In particular a very fast IS Mid Telephoto prime.

 

[jrista]

Since I bought my 5D3 last year, the yen has fallen 25% against the US dollar. That means that Canon effectively has an additional 25% headroom available to make changes to a model before they have to increase the price...

No. With a multinational company like Canon, the impact of the exchange rate cannot be so simply explained. They have many expenses that are in U.S. dollars, as well of dozens of other currencies. To take just one small example: all of their U.S. expenses (salaries, shipping costs, discounts to dealers, advertising expenses, etc. etc.) must be paid in U.S. dollars, which means they become more expensive when the Yen falls in value.

The U.S. market is important, but not even the largest market for Canon products any more. An ever-growing percentage of their sales comes from China, while European sales also represent a substantial portion of their market as well. Just as in the U.S., they have substantial expenses in these markets that must be paid in the local currency.

It is a gross oversimplification to assume that changes in the exchange rate have so simple of an impact on expenses.

Canon, being a multinational company, also maintains revenues in local currencies as well. One wouldn't necessarily have to assume that Yen has to be converted to USD in order for costs to be paid in USD. It may be that some Yen does have to be converted, but it also seems logical that the increased costs due to a falling Yen wouldn't always be incurred, given that there are a number of revenues gathered, and banked, in USD by Canon's US business arms.

 

[Vossie]

I see a high MP body but what I really want to see is some new glass. In particular a very fast IS Mid Telephoto prime.

Indeed. IF there would be a 2nd ff body in 2014, A 5Ds not replacing but living along the 5D3 would make most sense. IF Canon intends to launch a 1Ds, I could see a similar high MP sensor in a non-1 body. A replacement for any of the 3 current FF bodies would not make much sense in my view.

Although I think that the added value of a high MP body is limited (for the majority of applications the current MP counts of Canon's FF bodies would suffice), from a marketing standpoint they probably have to go for higher MPs as competition is heading there as well.

 

[Moulyneau]

These two cameras are fairly recent and I guess there's no need for early upgrade but between the two, I think a 6D2 with beefed up AF and some minor stuff would make an easy one.

 

[Marsu42]

Exactly; that's why the 5D IV will be a very tightly guarded secret. There certainly won't be any 'announcements' regarding this untill it's about to bs launched, otherwise sales of the current - and very current at that - model would suffer.

Bad news for rumor sites - seems we're stuck with [CR1] about the 7d2

Another reason for Canon not revealing anything is their reputation for delays (see 1dx), so to repair their image they'll make sure if they make a release announcement in the future the hardware is really ready - which excludes "development announcements" and such.

These two cameras are fairly recent and I guess there's no need for early upgrade but between the two, I think a 6D2 with beefed up AF and some minor stuff would make an easy one.

But it would also be an easy way to annoy existing customers (see Nikon's infamous d600->d610), expensive dslrs - and that includes the 6d - aren't expected to be "updated" like smartphones or Rebels.

Canon has tremendous success with lenses doing the exact opposite - not updating them at all or only when driven by gunpoint of Sigma/Nikon. The result is that people happily buy 8-10 year old L lenses and they have a great resale value - if is becomes know the 6D is the ff Rebel buyers will be more reluctant in the future with the 6d2 after it's a year on the market.

 

[Dick]

A mirrorless FF camera is needed. EVF + EF mount + L lenses + ... yeah, a huge pile of cash.

 

[pdirestajr]

A mirrorless FF camera is needed. EVF + EF mount + L lenses + ... yeah, a huge pile of cash.

I still don't understand the desire for a mirrorless camera to mount "huge" EF mount lenses to. Where is the benefit?

All I see is:
• Worse balance/ ergonomics
• Still not a small package
• Slower AF
• No optical VF
• Weaker battery performance

So if they were to add a mirrorless camera to their lineup, they'd have to add a 4th lens mount? Sounds like a way for Canon to just drive their business into the ground.

I'd be all for a 1 off item like the Fuji x100 or the Sony RX1 where a built-in lens can create a nice small package.

Also from reading the comments on CR for years now, I just picture every member as a giant man with huge hands that need large gripped cameras with a 70-200 2.8 mounted to feel comfortable.

 

[RGF]

5D M4 will have a higher profit that the 6D M2.

 

[tcmatthews]

High megapixel to go with the new lenses not directly competing with the 5d III or 6D. Possibly a full frame rebel I read a few years ago Canon had a long term goal or returning to all full frame cameras. If that is still a gole we could see the 6d sensor in a rebel body.

Other than that I think it is too early for a 6d refresh. If it is a 5d announcement it will be a 2015 Camera supporting 4k possibly.

 

[Richard8971]

Because entry level is where they make the most money and that money then gets used for R&D of the higher end stuff and new lenses.

The SL1 is marketed at, well let's be honest, young ladies. It's a small and compact and fits in a handbag.

The t5i is marketed at the beginner, and those on a budget that want functionality and good IQ.

The 60/70D is for the hobbyist and enthusiast, but likely those who find the rebel a bit too small and plasticky. It fits a certain profile. I can't quite figure what myself but I'm sure it exists!

The 7D is for serious photographers who need the speed and durability but aren't pro and don't have thousands in the bank. A poor mans sports camera.

It's all about choice. Why are there 50 types of potato chips? Why not just one pack in one size? Some people are hungrier than others just like some photogs want more camera than others.

Yeah true, guess I didn't think of it in those terms.

The XXD line was for years the "go to" camera for those who didn't want/couldn't afford a professional body. Once the 7D took the APS-C crown, the XXD line was slightly downgraded to what we have today. I love my 40D, it's a solid camera that handles whatever you throw at it.

In fact, with the way they designed the 60D I was surprised that they even came out with the 70D. I was certain that they would have integrated the XXD line and the 7D line into the 7D2. Guess I was wrong.

If they do introduce 2 more FF cameras next year it will be interesting to see what they come up with.

D

 

[sagittariansrock]

6D did not have dirty/oily sensor like Nikon D600 and will easily sell more than D600, D610, a7 & a7r combined

Nikon's action was very baffling to me. I am sure they could have just fixed the issue for a lesser cost. Must have been some other reason for bringing out a D610.
Logically, neither 5DIV nor 6DII make sense so early. But then again, Canon strategists might have reasons we have no clue about.

 

[Arctic Photo]

A mirrorless FF camera is needed. EVF + EF mount + L lenses + ... yeah, a huge pile of cash.

I still don't understand the desire for a mirrorless camera to mount "huge" EF mount lenses to. Where is the benefit?

All I see is:
• Worse balance/ ergonomics
• Still not a small package
• Slower AF
• No optical VF
• Weaker battery performance

So if they were to add a mirrorless camera to their lineup, they'd have to add a 4th lens mount? Sounds like a way for Canon to just drive their business into the ground.

I'd be all for a 1 off item like the Fuji x100 or the Sony RX1 where a built-in lens can create a nice small package.

Also from reading the comments on CR for years now, I just picture every member as a giant man with huge hands that need large gripped cameras with a 70-200 2.8 mounted to feel comfortable.

I am a large man but with medium sized hands only. The 5D MkIII with the 70-200 2.8 is spot on for me.

I agree totally with your statement about mirrorless, all this time I thought there was something I didn't understand since a number of members here have been arguing so strongly for it. A small camera needs to be small enough to put in the pocket to make sense. Nothing bigger than the M with the 22 prime.

 

[Eldar]

A mirrorless FF camera is needed. EVF + EF mount + L lenses + ... yeah, a huge pile of cash.

I still don't understand the desire for a mirrorless camera to mount "huge" EF mount lenses to. Where is the benefit?

All I see is:
• Worse balance/ ergonomics
• Still not a small package
• Slower AF
• No optical VF
• Weaker battery performance

So if they were to add a mirrorless camera to their lineup, they'd have to add a 4th lens mount? Sounds like a way for Canon to just drive their business into the ground.

I'd be all for a 1 off item like the Fuji x100 or the Sony RX1 where a built-in lens can create a nice small package.

Also from reading the comments on CR for years now, I just picture every member as a giant man with huge hands that need large gripped cameras with a 70-200 2.8 mounted to feel comfortable.

I am a large man but with medium sized hands only. The 5D MkIII with the 70-200 2.8 is spot on for me.

I agree totally with your statement about mirrorless, all this time I thought there was something I didn't understand since a number of members here have been arguing so strongly for it. A small camera needs to be small enough to put in the pocket to make sense. Nothing bigger than the M with the 22 prime.

A benefit of a mirror less camera concept is that you can give it the form factor you like. You can make a small FF body for use with the shorter focal lengths and many users will prefer that. But you can also make an ergonomically sensible body for use with the longer lenses. To me t is not an either/or, but a yes-please-both!

 

[Arctic Photo]

A mirrorless FF camera is needed. EVF + EF mount + L lenses + ... yeah, a huge pile of cash.

I still don't understand the desire for a mirrorless camera to mount "huge" EF mount lenses to. Where is the benefit?

All I see is:
• Worse balance/ ergonomics
• Still not a small package
• Slower AF
• No optical VF
• Weaker battery performance

So if they were to add a mirrorless camera to their lineup, they'd have to add a 4th lens mount? Sounds like a way for Canon to just drive their business into the ground.

I'd be all for a 1 off item like the Fuji x100 or the Sony RX1 where a built-in lens can create a nice small package.

Also from reading the comments on CR for years now, I just picture every member as a giant man with huge hands that need large gripped cameras with a 70-200 2.8 mounted to feel comfortable.

I am a large man but with medium sized hands only. The 5D MkIII with the 70-200 2.8 is spot on for me.

I agree totally with your statement about mirrorless, all this time I thought there was something I didn't understand since a number of members here have been arguing so strongly for it. A small camera needs to be small enough to put in the pocket to make sense. Nothing bigger than the M with the 22 prime.

A benefit of a mirror less camera concept is that you can give it the form factor you like. You can make a small FF body for use with the shorter focal lengths and many users will prefer that. But you can also make an ergonomically sensible body for use with the longer lenses. To me t is not an either/or, but a yes-please-both!

That makes sense. It really isn't about if there's a mirror or not as such. Either way I like looking through a proper viewfinder.

 

[Marsu42]

A benefit of a mirror less camera concept is that you can give it the form factor you like.

However, if you add a native ef mount you still have to respect the current sensor-lens distance, or you end up with eos-m and an adapter.

There are several different approaches that lead to mirrorless - 1. size, 2. no mirror-flip (more fps, shorter blackout, sturdier) and 3. evf. Yes. the latter can be beneficial if you really make use of it, unlike Sony currently does - I'd like in-vf focus peaking for shallow dof and zebras for easier exposure.

 

[Niki]

maybe they just should announce a few firmware updates making…the 5d3…into a 5d4

 

[Sporgon]

Possibly a full frame rebel I read a few years ago Canon had a long term goal or returning to all full frame cameras. If that is still a gole we could see the 6d sensor in a rebel body.

If Canon did ever state this then I would think they have changed their collective minds.

For many people the APS sensor is more desirable: cheaper, more forgiving in practical use due to shorter focal length lenses giving more DoF, so often 'sharper' pictures. Moderate teles give the impression of much greater magnification; the list goes on.

The same tech that is making FF cheaper is making APS better.

We won't see a FF Rebel unless Canon marketing research has suggested it would be a big sales feature.

 

[Richard8971]

We won't see a FF Rebel unless Canon marketing research has suggested it would be a big sales feature.

Ah, the big question.

I think Canon in part will be influenced by the camera offerings by companies that are taking (in my opinion) mirrorless technology a bit more serious right now. Maybe Canon has something up their "mirrorless sleeve", maybe they don't, who knows?

I think cameras like the Sony A7/A7R are going to change, for the better, how mirrorless cameras CAN be designed and SHOULD be designed. I think a lot of people were surprised by a serious mirrorless FF camera body being announced AND from a company other than Nikon or Canon.

Here is what I see possible from a serious FF MIRRORLESS camera. I don't think you can do this with current DSLR technology.

They can design a FF camera that can take APS-H and APS-C images from the same body. I am NOT talking about any kind of JPEG cropping OR IN CAMERA processing. Look, the idea is very simple. My 7D in which the full resolution of the sensor is 5,184 x 3,456 pixels, can ALSO take HD video at a resolution of 1920 x 1080. It simply uses the pixels it NEEDS, nothing more, nothing less. Now HOW it does it, is not the important part, the fact that it CAN do it, is.

So you design a 5D2 sized FF mirrorless body, one that can accept EF AND EF-s lenses. Ah, EF-s lenses on a FF camera? Not one with a mirror, but with a MIRRORLESS camera you can! There will be NO mirror to slap up and strike the rear of the EF-s lens!

So you take (for the sake of argument) a sensor that is, say 36MP (7360 x 4912), so cropped down to APS-H (the sensor would only use the pixels that would make up an APS-H sized sensor) would make it about 22MP (5867 x 3888). In APS-C mode, the sensor would only use the innermost pixels making up an APS-C sized sensor giving you a 13MP (4538 x 3029) sized image. The full crop factor would take place too. In FF mode, no crop. In the other modes, 1.3x and 1.6x respectfully.

Now, here would be the awesome part. In FF mode, the camera would take 4-6 fps. In APS-H mode, 6-8 fps and say 12-14 fps in APS-C mode. The larger images would take longer to process and would take up more buffer room. The smaller images would take up less room and could be processed faster, all in RAW format. Also, being a FF sized sensor, the pixel density would not change so the high ISO performance of the sensor would carry through (in theory) to all of the other image sizes. The advantage of such a camera would be unimaginable. All of this could be carried out by the processor to choose whatever pixels it wanted to or not. If current DSLR cpu's are fast enough to process HD video, certainly they are fast enough to make an image size smaller while retaining full image quality.

This idea is already being done by several cameras but not to this extent. The Panasonic Lumix FZ200 is a good example. It is a 12MP camera and in one particular shooting mode it shoots approx. 60 frames / sec @ 2.5MP. This CAN be done.

WILL Canon make such a camera? Don't know, but I sure hope so. But I bet that SOMEONE will and WHEN they do, it might be enough competition to get Canon and/or Nikon to take notice because you better believe that I would buy such a camera if it was in the $1800-$2400 price range. The Sony A7 is a good start and shows what can be done with mirrorless technology. This is one reason why I am excited to see where they they will go with it.

Will mirrorless cameras replace DSLR's? Not sure, DSLR's work pretty good right now the way they are.

Like has been said, maybe they would consider such a camera, maybe they won't. But maybe the MARKET will force the hand. Competition is a wonderful thing!

D

 

[Traktor]

I can't see the 5D3 being replaced in 2014. The current 5D3 is in a sweet spot for wedding and event photographers, a market place it dominates. 22 megapixel is sufficient for this without having huge files that are a pain to work with and combined with the AF and frame rates it is superior to the D800 in this application IMHO.
It would be nice to see a high megapixel version which sacrifices the 61 point AF, frame rates and video capabilities. A 6D2 or 5Ds (whatever you want to call it) could fill this void and sell alongside the current cameras at a 5D3 price without canibalising sales too much. At the 5D3 price point I don't think you could have high res AND high frame rates - that would be more of a 1DXs thing.

Unfortunately I don't think this will eventuate. Unless you are well marketed and established, Landscape photography is not that lucrative, whereas even average wedding photographers can make decent money. There are plenty of amazing landscapers out there that don't make a cent out of their photos. The 5D3 fills the wedding/event niche very nicely and no doubt Canon's marketing department knows it. If there is demand in the studio world for a high res low fps model, then Canon may exploit that. I can only hope!