Price predictions - with current lineup and possible changes

[that1guy]

Since your 40D was broken you might try the Canon Loyalty program to buy a refurbished camera, and save the rest for a new 5Dm3, or what ever in the future. Checkout his post on Digital Grin: http://www.dgrin.com/showthread.php?t=101755

Canon Loyalty Program: 866-443-8002


I called Canon this AM (Aug 11, 2010) to ask about trade in for a very old elph or an S30, this is what I was told:

a1100 $72
a470 $48
sd1200 $86.40
SD 960 $134.40
SX120IS $119.59
DSLR's
T1i $455.99 (519.99 with kit lens)
XS (319.99 with kit lens)
XSI $335.99 (399.99 with kit lens)
When I called back later to ask about trade-ins for my 350D, just for the heck of it, a different operator added this info
40D $559.20 ($719.20 with 28-100 IS kit lens)
50D $719.20 ($839.20 ditto)
7D $1119.20
5D11 $1679.20

this second operator told me that these were the prices no matter what camera I was trading in, but I didn't clarify whether or not all camera trade-ins would qualify for the prosumer cameras. I can't believe I'd get that 5DII or the 7D discount for trading in an ancient elph, but maybe.. I should have clarified.

Wow, that is cool, I didn't know they did that. For that price, I could almost get a 5DII now, even though it isn't an AF upgrade, and then sell it for nearly that price after the 5DIII comes out.

The 5D isn't exactly what I want, but it is still better than my 20D. I just was hesitant because I didn't want to loose a lot of money getting a 5DII and then selling it to get a 5DIII a year or so later. Hmmmm...do you thing they would take a "well loved" 20D as trade?

 

[Jarveye]

yes the loyalty programme...

unfortunatley i'm in the UK, and while i may be loyal to canon they are not loyal back to us here, and dont offer anything like this for us here.

otherwise i would have done this and traded in both my bodys to get something better.

unfortunatley i might be able to sell my 350d for a pittance, and as for the 40d, im not sure what i can do with the 40d... i feel its worth something..

basically it was dropped onto concrete, the screen on the back still works but has a bad crack behind the plastic on the actual screen (obscures around 3rd of the screen), the main problem is the shutter, it is now strangely sticky - when you fire a shot it sticks up, fire another it takes a photo with it stuck up, fire again the mirror goes down, fire again and it takes a photo with the mirror stuck down, and so the cycle continues, and rapid fire fps doesnt work.

my insurance company said it could be fixed for around £120, but given my excess and losing my no claims i opted instead to pay myself, but then was quoted around £350 by canon when i investigated it myself - at this point i kinda gave up on it.

 

[that1guy]

I went ahead and emailed canon usa to ask about both my point and shoot and my 20D. I'll let you know what they tell me.

 

[papa-razzi]

On dpreview they have a picture http://a.img-dpreview.com/articles/photokina2010/Canon/DSC00744.jpg? of a guy holding the new 400mm 2.8L in his hand. Yes, in his hand. I've used the old 400mm 2.8L and that's a "gripped firmly in both hands" or "on tri-/monopod" lens.
I actually find it hilarious

If you look closely, you can see the sleeve of his left hand, so actually he is holding it in two hands, but the photo is trying to hide that as best it can.

 

[Jarveye]

I went ahead and emailed canon usa to ask about both my point and shoot and my 20D. I'll let you know what they tell me.

Keep me posted on that please, im guessing by that you mean your also in the UK but are trying to contact the USA branch about their loyalty programme?

as well as my working 350d and broken 40d i also have a broken G9, so it would be great to be able to trade all these in towards a 5d II, which i have pretty much settled on i think.... are refurbished 5dII's available from their loyalty programme?

 

[StepBack]

I don't know when any FF will be upgraded, but it seems that the response to the 60D indicates that not leap frogging the 7D the way Nikon used their D7000 to make a big splash, Canon will up the ante with respect to the FF's rather than make a few adjustments. From some forums one thing users want is to reduce noise and I don't know that ISO in the tens of thousands is the way to go. Perhaps Canon could improve the software in the body and reduce the cost of the lenses to create sales rather than camera envy. I'm not big on post op processing. It says less about the art of photography and more about photography as art.

 

[richy]

mifsuds do some great used kit in the uk. Ive spent a lot with them new and used when I lived in the UK and their service and pricing rocks.
As for pricing changes, I think I got my 5d2 within a year of it being released, whilst it was still out of stock most of the time, and paid 2100 gbp for it body only. The 7d i bought stateside with bing cashback and canon rebate for approx 1200 usd not too long after it was released. Waiting for canon rebate season might be an idea, or picking up a used camera. I would get a 1ds2 if I needed a decent ff with great af on the cheap, not perfect for everyone (poor screen, lacks many modern features) but its also cheap so you pays your money and takes your pick
Given you have 3rd party lenses and will lose a ton o money selling them i would try stick with canon unless you can find good deals on used lenses. If you had L glass weirdly you wouldnt lose as much as it goes used for 80-90% of retail a lot of the time.
No idea when canon plan to release any more cameras, wish i did. I'm holding my capex budget over to next year or just buying medium format digital, sick of waiting for canon. Ill keep the current setup but I was waiting on the 1ds4 before deciding. If canon do release a 5d3 expect it to be about 2600 gbp give or take and probably to be scarecer then an honest politician for at least 12 months. Dont expect the 5d2 to drop too much more, the 5d still sells for a pretty penny used! although it will drop some.

 

[that1guy]

I went ahead and emailed canon usa to ask about both my point and shoot and my 20D. I'll let you know what they tell me.

Keep me posted on that please, im guessing by that you mean your also in the UK but are trying to contact the USA branch about their loyalty programme?

as well as my working 350d and broken 40d i also have a broken G9, so it would be great to be able to trade all these in towards a 5d II, which i have pretty much settled on i think.... are refurbished 5dII's available from their loyalty programme?

Actually, I'm in the US. I just wasn't sure if my cameras would qualify for the program. It sounds like they will. Canon responded really quick (which has been my experience every time with them) and they gave me a number to call. They told me to tell the person on the phone that I was working w/ someone over email about the loyalty program.

I guess they actually send you a mailing label so that you can send your camera in, so that sounded cool. Figured I'd have to pay for that myself.

The number they gave me to call was different I believe than the one that was posted in the forum here, so not sure why that is.

They didn't quote me any prices in the email message. That is what I was really curious about. I want to know how much of a discount I will get, and what cameras I would qualify for. I would have called the number to find out, but I was told that I needed to have the serial number for the camera I wanted to send in when I called, and unfortunately that is at home.

I'll continue to keep you all posted as I find out more. If you are curious about the program in the UK, I would just email Canon. The worst they could say is "no." Just go to their website and click on the Contact link. They have always been really good about answering any of my questions.

 

[Edwin Herdman]

Wikipedia (yeah yeah...) had some info about the loyalty program on the EF lenses article (go to the section about L lenses). I think they said something like one pro body (which at this point means no lower than the 7D, it seems clear that the 60D isn't supposed to qualify as a "pro" camera...) and three (or maybe just two?) L lenses. I think that was for the US, and could be different for other regions.

I'm hoping that there will be a refresh of the 5D line soon so there isn't quite as severe a tradeoff when moving up from the 7D in terms of autofocus performance - unless you want to / can afford to move to a 1D / 1Ds body, that is.

I am thinking about the 60D simply because it is affordable. I really ought to consider getting a 7D more strongly, but I'll balance the loss of better heat dissipation (maybe) and autofocus and burst with still-better-than-the-T1i bursts and AF of the 60D, plus all the other nice points it has going for it. Microadjust might be important as well for some of my lenses but I'm not sure yet.

 

[richy]

Interesting thread, there are some underlying rules on competition that might help. Canon wants competition, no competition means its harder to look better, they also don't want to go head to head with Nikon, very few companies do want to do that, they may bring out models with a similar intent (i.e. say pro sports photog) at similar prices but you will usually see them do it in a different manner, if they went toe to toe and both put out a ff sports model it would be much easier to compare them exactly and pick a winner.

All that said, I am surprised canon isn't pouring more into r&d, they could really do with at least speeding up their glass updating (and bringing in new glass, like a 200-400) and many would argue their body lineup has a few areas that need attention.

ApsH vs full frame d3, you would have to compare output in the final medium. Canon have stated that their FF tech will ghost at 10fps (if I remember right) and there are mirror issues, so they use the apsh setup. They probably lost some high iso performance, but in general they are both amazing cameras which achieve the same thing slightly differently. Its really amusing (sorry I mean this with the best intent ) to see a Nikon FF referenced as the right way to go over a crop when Nikon spent years telling the universe there was no need for FF and that crop was just as good and had cost advantages, then they release a FX and suddenly FX is the dogs danglies. Really you have to look at them based on how the product (final shot in its intended medium) looks and the keeper rate if appropriate to figure out which is best and thats going to vary person to person.

 

[Loswr]

Wikipedia (yeah yeah...) had some info about the loyalty program on the EF lenses article (go to the section about L lenses). I think they said something like one pro body (which at this point means no lower than the 7D, it seems clear that the 60D isn't supposed to qualify as a "pro" camera...) and three (or maybe just two?) L lenses. I think that was for the US, and could be different for other regions.

You're talking about something different - the 'loyalty program' is where you trade in an older model of a Canon camera for a discount on a refurbished unit of a current model. The program you are talking about (where you must own a certain number of bodies and lenses) is Canon Professional Services. The requirements are fairly modest - in the US, you need two 20Ds or better or a single 1-series (i.e. no Rebels) - for the highest membership level you need a current 1-series body. You need 3 'pro lenses' - and note that 'pro' ≠ L-series. There are EF-S lenses on the 'pro' list (17-55, 10-22, 60mm macro), older EF lenses (e.g. 20/2.8, 50/2.5 compact macro), and heck, even the 28-135 kit lens is on the pro list.

 

[Edwin Herdman]

You're talking about something different - the 'loyalty program' is where you trade in an older model of a Canon camera for a discount on a refurbished unit of a current model. The program you are talking about (where you must own a certain number of bodies and lenses) is Canon Professional Services. The requirements are fairly modest - in the US, you need two 20Ds or better or a single 1-series (i.e. no Rebels) - for the highest membership level you need a current 1-series body. You need 3 'pro lenses' - and note that 'pro' ≠ L-series. There are EF-S lenses on the 'pro' list (17-55, 10-22, 60mm macro), older EF lenses (e.g. 20/2.8, 50/2.5 compact macro), and heck, even the 28-135 kit lens is on the pro list.

Right you are, I was thinking of CPS and actually totally missed the part where trades were being mentioned (???). I'll look into that list, see if I'm just 1/3 the way to CPS on the lens list or 2/3.

So that leaves me wondering if I can trade in my T1i with Canon, to better effect than selling it or trading it into a camera store.

 

[richy]

Is the loyalty program not solely for people with broken cameras that are out of warranty or for damage not covered by warranty?

 

[that1guy]

So I promised I would get back to you all. Here is what I found out and did.

First, I started by emailing Canon and telling them about my two cameras I would be interested in trading. The person who responded via email told me to call a number and tell them that I had been offered the Loyalty program. (I think I had already told you all this...any BTW, I am in the US).

I ended up calling in twice. The first time I was told that I could trade in my 20D for a 5DmkII and it would cost me $1679.20. I was also told that I could trade for a 7D for $1,100. Please remember that these are REFURBISHED units and not brand new. Also, the body only cameras are what are in the program, no bodies w/ lenses. They come w/ a 90 day warranty and I believe about a week to send it back for any reason. I needed to think about it and so I didn't purchase at that time.

So after the first call, I called and talked to another lady as I was ready to order. Long story short, they were out of stock. The lady gave me the website where I could look to check for when they got more back in stock. Needless to say I was bummed. I also, in the interest of full disclosure (and not wanting to cheat them) mentioned that the guy in the email never asked what was wrong w/ my camera. I told her that they were not broken beyond use, but that the 20D had given me problems in the past and that the A series point and shoot only had one of the lens protectors broken off. She said that it didn't matter (as the cameras get shipped directly to a recycler that destroys them).

Wait, there is more good news... you can now trade in an old point and shoot and upgrade to an SLR!! Not joking. The lady told me that if my 20D was still working sometimes, I could just keep it and trade in my point and shoot. I made her clarify for me that I would in fact get the exact same discount trading in my old Powershot A series that I would get for trading in my 20D, and she said yes, and again confirmed the price. She said you used to have to trade in an slr for an slr or a PS for a PS, but that they had just recently lifted the restriction. So, I set myself to stalking Canon's site waiting for it to come in stock again.

Fast forward to today...5DmkII refurbished was in stock. I called and ordered, but get this, the price had changed...it was now $1,599.20!! ;D So anyway, I have a new camera coming and it should be here next week (fast shipping too). The way I look at it, I should be able to sell this used a year from now and upgrade if I like the new 5D when it comes out, and in the mean time I got to use an upgraded camera for a year or so. Or maybe I will like this one enough and just hang onto it.

Anyway, thought you all would want to know!

 

[Edwin Herdman]

Crazy. Did you have to have anything else to qualify? Or was it really just as simple as sending out the A-series and getting credit towards the 5D Mark II?

What is this website, also? I'm wondering how their prices compare to B&H and Adorama Camera.

 

[that1guy]

Crazy. Did you have to have anything else to qualify? Or was it really just as simple as sending out the A-series and getting credit towards the 5D Mark II?

What is this website, also? I'm wondering how their prices compare to B&H and Adorama Camera.

No, nothing else. Heck, I just told them I had an A series I wanted to trade in w/ the Loyalty program. I didn't give my model number or anything. Not even the serial number. I thought it was kind of crazy too. I was actually keeping the serial numbers with me at all times so that if I saw the cameras were back in stock I could call.

So, the websites...the first one where I made my initial contact was just the Canon USA website: http://www.usa.canon.com/cusa/home The site where I was checking for stock is here: http://shop.usa.canon.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/subCategory_10051_10051_-1_29252 The link I posted should take you to a search for refurbished EOS slr cameras. Looks like the 5DmkII and 7D are still in stock as of today (10-31-10). Please note: they do NOT list the Loyalty Program prices there. I had to call in to get those. They are cheaper than the listed prices there.

Hope that helps! If you are curious, or have more questions, I can try to answer them, but really, I would just contact Canon. EVERY time I email I get a good, complete, informative answer, and I get one quickly (I have probably emailed them 5 times this past year for various reasons). They are also super nice and helpful on the phone. I spoke to a different person each of the 3 times I called and all were very helpful and friendly. Canon has definitely won points with me for customer service!

 

[Loswr]

For $400 off the price of a direct refurb, if you're interested in a refurb at all, just buy a used PowerShot - $50 on Amazon or less on eBay - and trade it in!

 

[skiorules]

Crazy. Did you have to have anything else to qualify? Or was it really just as simple as sending out the A-series and getting credit towards the 5D Mark II?

What is this website, also? I'm wondering how their prices compare to B&H and Adorama Camera.

No, nothing else. Heck, I just told them I had an A series I wanted to trade in w/ the Loyalty program. I didn't give my model number or anything. Not even the serial number. I thought it was kind of crazy too. I was actually keeping the serial numbers with me at all times so that if I saw the cameras were back in stock I could call.

So, the websites...the first one where I made my initial contact was just the Canon USA website: http://www.usa.canon.com/cusa/home The site where I was checking for stock is here: http://shop.usa.canon.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/subCategory_10051_10051_-1_29252 The link I posted should take you to a search for refurbished EOS slr cameras. Looks like the 5DmkII and 7D are still in stock as of today (10-31-10). Please note: they do NOT list the Loyalty Program prices there. I had to call in to get those. They are cheaper than the listed prices there.

Hope that helps! If you are curious, or have more questions, I can try to answer them, but really, I would just contact Canon. EVERY time I email I get a good, complete, informative answer, and I get one quickly (I have probably emailed them 5 times this past year for various reasons). They are also super nice and helpful on the phone. I spoke to a different person each of the 3 times I called and all were very helpful and friendly. Canon has definitely won points with me for customer service!

I just called to try to trade in an old camera of mine and I was told that the 5DmkII was taken off the Canon Loyalty program today and was told that it might not come back and after I finally decided that I could afford the camera at that price its now $400 more.

 

[Macadameane]

...and I was told that the 5DmkII was taken off the Canon Loyalty program today...

:'( Nooooooooooo! They must have read this thread

 

[that1guy]

Oh man! That totally stinks Sorry to hear that everyone. I'm kinda doubting it was because of this thread I wonder if this maybe means something else is coming? It was weird because the first price I was quotes was $1680, but it was out of stock but when it was back in stock I was quoted $1600. Of course I didn't ask too many questions, I just bought it (figured that was the smart thing).

skiorules - did they say if the 7D was still on it? They were offering that for $1,100 on the loyalty program. That was going to be my backup choice if the 5D never came back in stock. Not exactly my first choice, but still an upgrade to my 20D, and enough to tide me over for a year. I know none of the 1D series cameras are in the program (yes, I asked : ).

Man, I really wonder why they did that, or why they don't at least offer it but at a smaller discount (more like $200 'ish off; like the 7D is). It wouldn't be as good of a deal, but definitely still worth it.