Prosumer Level Canon Mirrorless Camera to Have 4K [CR2]

[rrcphoto]

They actually have had big losses in the DSLR/Mirrorless video market. If not for ML they'd have really, really, really fallen off as their stock body video features are way behind anyone else.

And, once again, only people who sit inside and run spreadsheets care whether they manage to get by with delivering less for more, people who actually go outside and use their equipment care about the features and what it can deliver. Maybe try getting away from the spreadsheets.

maybe they don't care.

What are the numbers of the video market versus a percentage of overall ILC sales - versus them focusing on Cini-EOS.

edit:

to expand on this - canon through their corp strategy presentations the last couple of years, has stated that the focus is more on horizontal expansion of Cini-EOS, and very little in the mention of DSLR video.

Canon is predicting less and less of Cameras (and printers) as being the core part of it's business portfolio.

http://www.canon.com/ir/housin2016/housin2016ceo-e-note.pdf

canon sells a C300 II (16k) with a 24-70 Cini lens (24K), and they probably couldn't give a rats posterior about selling off a few low margin DSLR video ILC's.

 

[Ozarker]

Since this is Canon related rumour, this camera wont come in 2016 but somtime after 2020 when 6k/8k will be standard across the competition.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Blah, blah, blah.
Nikon, Sony, Fuji, etc...

 

[Ozarker]

Don't try too hard with 4K, Canon. It's still early if you increase the video resolution in a sub 10k camera for the first time at the 10th anniversary of the 5D2, in 2018. When you are the last of the manufacturers who offers 4K on a broad basis. While you have proven with the 1DC you could have been the first.

Well, that's great advice. After all, the sales data show how badly Canon's market share has suffered. Clearly, 4K is critically important to a vast majority of buyers.

Cat videographers everywhere are suffering. *sigh* Videos of Miss Pussy will just have to wait.

 

[Ozarker]

Canon is in no way capable to make a fully competitive offering versus Sony A7/R/S II.

You just keep slapping that mirror, don't you? Do you think repetition will make it correct? :

He does it while staring at photos of Sony Cameras with adapters and Great White Canon lenses hung on them. Then he feels guilty and comes here to complain. He's worried about going blind too... or may already be. Wait, is he complaining or confessing?

 

[Etienne]

Reading is easy.
Dismissing an arrogant blowhard with no inside knowledge is even easier.

it's pretty easy to read though canon's patent applications. no insider knowledge required.

try harder.

Keep blowing, maybe your arrogance bubble will pop and you can return to earth.

 

[Etienne]

Reading is easy.
Dismissing an arrogant blowhard with no inside knowledge is even easier.

it's pretty easy to read though canon's patent applications. no insider knowledge required.

try harder.

btw, someone claims to have found evidence of a Canon patent for a mirrorless 50mm f/2 "The patent also includes a 50/2 design for a full frame mirrorless (22 mm backfocus [BF] distance).
The text suggests the likelihood of a full frame mirrorless"
http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/cameras/lenses/lenses_archive_12.html

How could you possibly have missed that after easily reading all of Canon's patent application, Mr. Blowhard?

 

[RGF]

Hope canon is able to license the Sony 42MP backlit sensor and do the camera right.

Menu structure and ergonomics on the A7R II is, dare I say, lacking.

 

[dolina]

Why wait for a beta product from Canon? Why not get an actual production model from Sony?

 

[rrcphoto]

Reading is easy.
Dismissing an arrogant blowhard with no inside knowledge is even easier.

it's pretty easy to read though canon's patent applications. no insider knowledge required.

try harder.

btw, someone claims to have found evidence of a Canon patent for a mirrorless 50mm f/2 "The patent also includes a 50/2 design for a full frame mirrorless (22 mm backfocus [BF] distance).
The text suggests the likelihood of a full frame mirrorless"
http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/cameras/lenses/lenses_archive_12.html

How could you possibly have missed that after easily reading all of Canon's patent application, Mr. Blowhard?

and what part of that has anything to do with a sensor patent? as i stated, canon has very little in the realms of full frame sensor patents dealing with short registration distances.

not to mention it's very common for canon's optical patents to include every possible embodiment of the optical formulate regardless of usage. that example for instance, had a slew of other embodiments. most patents do this.

there was even one embodiment with a BF of 14mm - which would work with no system.

keep trying.

 

[rrcphoto]

Why wait for a beta product from Canon? Why not get an actual production model from Sony?

the odds that canon could deliver a mirrorless full frame camera are probably greater than sony delivering an actual production model.
8)

 

[rrcphoto]

Reading is easy.
Dismissing an arrogant blowhard with no inside knowledge is even easier.

it's pretty easy to read though canon's patent applications. no insider knowledge required.

try harder.

btw, someone claims to have found evidence of a Canon patent for a mirrorless 50mm f/2 "The patent also includes a 50/2 design for a full frame mirrorless (22 mm backfocus [BF] distance).
The text suggests the likelihood of a full frame mirrorless"
http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/cameras/lenses/lenses_archive_12.html

How could you possibly have missed that after easily reading all of Canon's patent application, Mr. Blowhard?

and what part of that has anything to do with a sensor patent? as i stated, canon has very little in the realms of full frame sensor patents dealing with short registration distances.

not to mention it's very common for canon's optical patents to include every possible embodiment of the optical formulate regardless of usage. that example for instance, had a slew of other embodiments. most patents do this.

there was even one embodiment with a BF of 14mm - which would work with no system.

keep trying.

of course I'll add this recent patent from canon here:

http://pdfpiw.uspto.gov/.piw?PageNum=0&docid=09274254

patent application made on March 1st of this year.

of course it's 1-2 years before it's a published patent, and as well it doesn't deal with DPAF and offset microlenses, however it's a start.

it's still a very long way off to resolving the issues.

 

[Rocky]

Just hope Canon gives us a fast and accurate AF with a LED screen that is usable under the sun. So far, we have not see these in the M, M2 or M3.

 

[LetTheRightLensIn]

Don't try too hard with 4K, Canon. It's still early if you increase the video resolution in a sub 10k camera for the first time at the 10th anniversary of the 5D2, in 2018. When you are the last of the manufacturers who offers 4K on a broad basis. While you have proven with the 1DC you could have been the first.

Well, that's great advice. After all, the sales data show how badly Canon's market share has suffered. Clearly, 4K is critically important to a vast majority of buyers.

They actually have had big losses in the DSLR/Mirrorless video market. If not for ML they'd have really, really, really fallen off as their stock body video features are way behind anyone else.

And, once again, only people who sit inside and run spreadsheets care whether they manage to get by with delivering less for more, people who actually go outside and use their equipment care about the features and what it can deliver. Maybe try getting away from the spreadsheets.

Where are the 'DSLR/Mirrorless video market' sales data published?

I guess it hasn't occurred to you that you are not the universal arbiter of what features are important to the majority of buyers. Try comprehending that there's a big world out there, and your personal priorities aren't as representative of that world as you seem to think.

LOL, just check any film maker or video forum. Go out on the street also and see things in action.

 

[Loswr]

Don't try too hard with 4K, Canon. It's still early if you increase the video resolution in a sub 10k camera for the first time at the 10th anniversary of the 5D2, in 2018. When you are the last of the manufacturers who offers 4K on a broad basis. While you have proven with the 1DC you could have been the first.

Well, that's great advice. After all, the sales data show how badly Canon's market share has suffered. Clearly, 4K is critically important to a vast majority of buyers.

They actually have had big losses in the DSLR/Mirrorless video market. If not for ML they'd have really, really, really fallen off as their stock body video features are way behind anyone else.

And, once again, only people who sit inside and run spreadsheets care whether they manage to get by with delivering less for more, people who actually go outside and use their equipment care about the features and what it can deliver. Maybe try getting away from the spreadsheets.

Where are the 'DSLR/Mirrorless video market' sales data published?

I guess it hasn't occurred to you that you are not the universal arbiter of what features are important to the majority of buyers. Try comprehending that there's a big world out there, and your personal priorities aren't as representative of that world as you seem to think.

LOL, just check any film maker or video forum. Go out on the street also and see things in action.

LOL, just read this forum to see all the predictions of doom for Canon.

I guess I missed the part of your response providing data of any sort for your previous claim of Canon's, "...big losses in the DSLR/Mirrorless video market." Can you please provide those data sources again?

 

[Mr Majestyk]

Just speculating, but: Could it be that this mirrorless FF camera is the 6D Mk II?
We have heard that the 6D gets a successor this year and that it would be smaller than the original 6D. Small size and light weight are key features of mirrorless cameras. Many landscape photographers are currently using Sony cameras with Canon lenses. Also, the time would just perfectly fit for a 6D replacement --- announcement at Photokina, starting sales around Christmas.

What do you think: Could this make sense?

gargamel

Interesting theory but whether Canon would abandon an entry level FF DSLR is doubtful. It will have the Nikon D620 and D760 to contend with down the track. I do think that Nikon however will make the DF2 a mirrorless camera, it's got the classic retro format already that works well in the mirrorless world and would be the natural way for Nikon to get on the mirrorless bandwagon.

 

[Don Haines]

There are two inescapable conclusions to be reached from this (and others) thread......

First is that Canon is doomed because they are not into mirrorless and 4K....

Second is that Canon is doomed because they are moving into mirrorless and 4K.....

 

[slclick]

There are two inescapable conclusions to be reached from this (and others) thread......

First is that Canon is doomed because they are not into mirrorless and 4K....

Second is that Canon is doomed because they are moving into mirrorless and 4K.....

Should I have waited for the 'Sale of Doom' before buying the 70-300L?

 

[Nininini]

Are people here (or in general) reeeally that into 4K? I see/hear lots of regret/dismissal of the 5DS bodies due to the large files, is the 4K situation not going to be similar?
I'm personally disappointed that Canon generally only offer 720p at double the desirable frame rate and file size, with no 16:9 576p or even 480p at 16:9...

most of the people crying about 4k would never shoot it, but just want to see it on a spec - look my camera shoots 4k..

that makes no sense, I shoot 4k on my panasonic all....the..... time

being able to grab 8k stills is amazing

It's like having an 8k camera doing NON-STOP 30fps burst

People dimissing 4k, have never used it.

 

[gargamel]

I don't think it makes sense at all.

If a FF mirrorless is introduced, it will have the "M" product line name. Not the typical DSLR naming convention. So, IMO, if a product is labeled 6D Mark II, it will be a DSLR.

Well, I wasn't speculating about how they will label the product in the end, at all. The question is: Will the successor of the 6D be a DSLR or a mirrorless camera?

Now, might they introduce a FF mirrorless which would appeal to current 6D users, or be of similar specification/ability to a 6D Mark II? Sure. That's possible. Heck, they might even name it the Canon EOS 6M - just so people know where it's intended to fit. But I don't think it'll REPLACE the 6D. I think there will be a 6D Mark II with a mirror. That camera is practically a necessity. The 6D was/is immensely popular. Nikon has the D610 and also the D750. Canon can't afford not to have a camera in the lineup below the 5D series to compete with shoppers who can't swing $3k for a camera body but still want a FF sensor, when Nikon has 2 product line offerings.

Now let's think like a business man, as opposed to a camera enthusiast.
Canon's sales are shrinking, their market share is shrinking, too, just like the whole camera market is shrinking. The only segment that is growing is the segment of mirrorless cameras. Add that about 1-2 years ago we heard (I think it was here, at CR) that Canon wasn*t too happy with 6D sales. Now, as business man; what would you conclude?

If you think like a business person, things like this are obvious. If you think like a camera enthusiast, you end up with posts wondering if the 6D will be replaced by a mirrorless camera. There's room for both in this world (and much more), but one is fantasy while the other makes sense.

My humble thinking is that cameras that meet user demands will usually sell better than cameras that don't. So product management should follow user feedback, to some degree. The photographers the 6D is aimed at want an even smaller, lighter camera. This could be more easily achieved without a mirror, I guess, as the mirror box takes space and adds weight.

Now, as a hobby photographer, I *wish* that the successor of the 6D will be a DSLR, and not a mirrorless one. Like many others I would like a light and small body, plus good battery life, but I couldn't care less about 4k video. So I agree with you that a DSLR is the most likely scenario for a 6D replacement, but only because Canon will take some more time to develop a competitive and attractive mirrorless FF camera. But I doubt that they will present the 6M, too. Instead, we might see a compact mirrorless camera with an FF sensor and a fixed lenght.

Speculating again: I guess the 6D Mk II will mark the end of the line and be replaced by a mirrorless camera in a few years.

gargamel

 

[TAF]

if you take a look at the SL1 form factor.

that could be the same form factor as a Mirrorless full frame - it's actually smaller than the A7RII - sans flash housing at the top.

so what does it have to be another mount other than the EF mount?

rip out the mirror and penta mirror viewfinder, put in an EVF - the 2.36M dot EVF from the DC-EVF1 is fine thanks, add in a tilting screen. use the 20MP DPAF sensor from the 1DX generation ..

done?

Yes, please.

Keep the price reasonable, and I'll order one. Create a new mount, or continue to waste more time with the -M mount, and I'll just stick with my 5D3...