Prosumer Level Canon Mirrorless Camera to Have 4K [CR2]

[Loswr]

Can't you just continue to post squirrel pictures instead of continuing with this pointless discussion?

It takes a lot to make the squirrels shut up...

 

[crashpc]

I never understood the bizarre need to continue to visit a place which brings you so much unhappiness. It's truly unhealthy.

+1
He's afraid to make the switch and wants the herd to do it first. He cannot possibly believe what he says.

Several on the forums persist in confusing two, distinct questions: what camera they want to buy, and what cameras Canon wants to make. They want to buy a camera that meets their particular needs; Canon wants to make cameras that will be profitable. Since Canon has consistently been profitable making cameras that don't match their specific needs, the logical assumption is that their specific needs are not the most profitable. Unfortunately, many start with the presumption that their needs are representative, therefore profitable, and then go off into the desert predicting doom for Canon.

And I thought there is this crisis telling us overal camera sales (volumes) are going down, and those panic-based seminars on what manufacturers do wrong to save them. Hahaha.
I realize I´m not the one who is Canon making their devices for, but if I look around, Only 1% of people are into cameras, and only quarter of these have mirrorslappers of greater MILC. Now, my $$$$ is waiting for usable camera, so They depleted all possibilities for all people I know (myself) wanting to buy new camera. Where do the money come from to them then? :-D

 

[scyrene]

Can't you just continue to post squirrel pictures instead of continuing with this pointless discussion?

It takes a lot to make the squirrels shut up...

That is adorable.

 

[scyrene]

I never understood the bizarre need to continue to visit a place which brings you so much unhappiness. It's truly unhealthy.

+1
He's afraid to make the switch and wants the herd to do it first. He cannot possibly believe what he says.

Several on the forums persist in confusing two, distinct questions: what camera they want to buy, and what cameras Canon wants to make. They want to buy a camera that meets their particular needs; Canon wants to make cameras that will be profitable. Since Canon has consistently been profitable making cameras that don't match their specific needs, the logical assumption is that their specific needs are not the most profitable. Unfortunately, many start with the presumption that their needs are representative, therefore profitable, and then go off into the desert predicting doom for Canon.

And I thought there is this crisis telling us overal camera sales (volumes) are going down, and those panic-based seminars on what manufacturers do wrong to save them. Hahaha.
I realize I´m not the one who is Canon making their devices for, but if I look around, Only 1% of people are into cameras, and only quarter of these have mirrorslappers of greater MILC. Now, my $$$$ is waiting for usable camera, so They depleted all possibilities for all people I know (myself) wanting to buy new camera. Where do the money come from to them then? :-D

Would you like to rephrase that in a way that makes sense?

I *think* you're saying that things in camera land are desperate, and they need your money specifically to survive. That is absurd. When times are tough, every decision is more critical - making niche products that appeal to you, but maybe not to the wider market, could be disastrous. It comes back to the same thing ultimately - if your personal needs and desires are unusual, then it's a bad business decision on their part to cater to them.

 

[crashpc]

So oou got it.... My needs are not unusual. These are pretty ususual, and other manufacturers are meeting these (bodies only). I don't seese why Canon could not also. C'mon, pathetic burst rates and buffer depth in M3,.poorer image sensor, no serious lens selection. THEY are making it niche, not me.

 

[Don Haines]

Can't you just continue to post squirrel pictures instead of continuing with this pointless discussion?

but they must be squirrel pictures taken with a Canon mirror-less camera

 

[AvTvM]

Canon would need my business more than I need them. And I know I am not the only one. representative or not does not matter much. Enough people like myself, who are done with mirrorslappers.

 

[Loswr]

Canon needs squirrel butts more than AvTvM's business, and 'people who are done with mirrorslappers' remain a minority of ILC buyers.

 

[AWR]

I used to believe that these AvTvM Sony fan boys are just - not the brightest - adolescents dwelling in their "uniqueness". Certainly not real camera owners.

But lately I've started to think, it's the Sony's marketing department. Otherwise this makes no sense.

What an evil company

 

[scyrene]

Canon would need my business more than I need them.

The epitome of childish cluelessness. "This multibillion-dollar company needs the business of this average (at best) joe more than I need them!" I'd laugh if it wasn't so sad.

 

[Tugela]

Can't you just continue to post squirrel pictures instead of continuing with this pointless discussion?

It takes a lot to make the squirrels shut up...

That is adorable.

Squirrels roar you know. They sound a lot like a crow and can kick up quite a racket when they do it.

 

[Tugela]

Canon needs squirrel butts more than AvTvM's business, and 'people who are done with mirrorslappers' remain a minority of ILC buyers.

A ever growing minority. One day they won't be the minority any more. It is coming. What will you do then? Hide in a cave?

 

[Loswr]

Canon needs squirrel butts more than AvTvM's business, and 'people who are done with mirrorslappers' remain a minority of ILC buyers.

A ever growing minority. One day they won't be the minority any more. It is coming. What will you do then? Hide in a cave?

Well, the Sun becoming a red giant and destroying the Earth is coming too, but I'm not too worried about that.

 

[Tugela]

Truth be told, despite opinions otherwise, Canon will do what they have always done, reuse other APS-C sensors in a mirrorless platform. In this case, they can pick on the 80D, which has very good performance. 1080P/60FPS with GOP options is a given since the 80D can do that on DIGIC 6. Throw a EVF in and DIGIC 7 for faster FPS and you've got a serious weapon. It's an 80D in a M form factor that can take the excellent, and smaller EF-M lenses...

The magical question which this topic covers is 4K. I think there is a strong probability the higher end EOS M, IE replacement to the M3 will be 4K. Also considering the C500 II later next month should be 8k, there isn't need to protect the 4K segment as pro's will adopt 8k if only to downsample.

Canon has done a XC10 1" @ 4K, they have done a FF 1D C and 1DXII @ 4K; I find it hard to believe the (80D) sensor itself isn't capable, more likely it's a TDP, x264 and data throughput headache, which DIGIC7 implementation in a larger footprint (IE more power and available TDP from a larger than G7XII frame) could possibly resolve as I assume they've shrunk not only the lithography on the sensor, but also on their DIGICs with the DIGIC7, hence why the G7XII can do 8FPS RAW whereas the G7X can't, I'm sure part of that is also more ram on board, IE added buffer.

Now that said, if they do a 4K mirrorless, don't expect it to be cheap. XC10 commands $2,000, I'd expect a price point between $1,000 and $2,000 for whichever model offers 4K.

The other Mirrorless cameras will probably be a M10 upgrade, with a newer, but not 80D sensor due to cost. Think M3 without hotshoe, with DIGIC7 instead of DIGIC6. Maybe the 70D sensor instead of the T6i sensor; coin toss.

Third mirrorless? Anybodies guess, maybe a fixed lens FF mirrorless, which technically is considered a compact; people don't think of the RX1 as mirrorless, even though technically it is. If I were a guessing man, they might, do a FF mirrorless. Improbable though as mirrorless plus FF = what's the point? Once again another lots of differing opinions but that's the truth; loosing the mirror on a FF doesn't reduce that much of the proportional size/weight of either the mount, or backplane space. FF lenses themselves also are heavy, taking the mirror out; they're still big/heavy

Edit: They might do a video oriented EOS M, in addition to the prosumer (direct M3 replacement), and low end (M10 direct replacement). Once again, the XC10's reception wasn't stellar, I could see this, especially with the EF-M optical lineup being 100% STM makes in logical, plus the larger APS-C sensor makes for better low ISO than the XC10 can.

The issue with the Digic processors as it stands appears to be their thermal envelope constraints. They should be capable of doing hardware encoding of 4K, but we know that was not enabled in the G7XII (presumably it gets too hot doing 4K), and we also know that the 1DXII used older processors and MJPEG because it would have required a fan if hardware encoding was used (presumably with the Digic 7 doing the job).

The DV5 can encode 4K in hardware, but it requires a fan all the same.

So, IMO it is unlikely that Canon will have 4K in consumer or MILC models any time soon, at least not until they come out with the next generation processor. Historically that is about a 2 year cycle, so probably not before late 2017/early 2018. The processors Canon have available to them is what is holding them back and limiting what they can do.

 

[Tugela]

Canon needs squirrel butts more than AvTvM's business, and 'people who are done with mirrorslappers' remain a minority of ILC buyers.

A ever growing minority. One day they won't be the minority any more. It is coming. What will you do then? Hide in a cave?

Well, the Sun becoming a red giant and destroying the Earth is coming too, but I'm not too worried about that.

MILCs ruling the world will happen a lot sooner than the sun dieing.

 

[Loswr]

They should be capable of doing hardware encoding of 4K, but we know that was not enabled in the G7XII

But you insisted so confidently that any Canon camera with Digic 7 would shoot 4K video! I must have missed where you admitted you were wrong.

MILCs ruling the world will happen a lot sooner than the sun dieing.

The difference is, we know that the latter will happen, whereas the former is not a certainty.

 

[Tugela]

They should be capable of doing hardware encoding of 4K, but we know that was not enabled in the G7XII

But you insisted so confidently that any Canon camera with Digic 7 would shoot 4K video! I must have missed where you admitted you were wrong.

MILCs ruling the world will happen a lot sooner than the sun dieing.

The difference is, we know that the latter will happen, whereas the former is not a certainty.

My error was assuming that Canon would have a handle on the thermal envelope by now, whereas they clearly apparently do not. So it would seem that they are still behind the big boys in terms of technology. That may be OK for DSLRs which have much lower processor requirements, but it won't cut it in mirrorless.

Digic 7 is the same generation as the DV5, and will share most of the same logic, which means that it almost certainly has a 4K H.264 encoder on board. It just has not been activated on the G7XII.

 

[Loswr]

Yes, well...assumptions are dangerous.

 

[rrcphoto]

Digic 7 is the same generation as the DV5, and will share most of the same logic, which means that it almost certainly has a 4K H.264 encoder on board. It just has not been activated on the G7XII.

proof?

or are you just pulling this out of your posterior?

 

[Loswr]

proof?

or are you just pulling this out of your posterior?

Like I said – ASSumptions.