rrcphoto said:
Well, it's certain that some of the posts in this thread about this rumor don't pass the idiot check.
But that's par for the course around here. :
Here's another one for the nuts...
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Prosumer Level Canon Mirrorless Camera to Have 4K [CR2]
- Thread starter Canon Rumors Guy
- Start date
Well, it's certain that some of the posts in this thread about this rumor don't pass the idiot check.
But that's par for the course around here. :
Here's another one for the nuts...
Don Haines said:
Nice two way bokeh (did I just coin a word). Or is there a term for this when you have bokeh in front and in back of the subject.
Maybe we can learn something about photography from this thread rather than reading boring post with camera sales figures and marketing graphs.
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neuroanatomist said:rrcphoto said:
Well, it's certain that some of the posts in this thread about this rumor don't pass the idiot check.
But that's par for the course around here. :
Here's another one for the nuts...
Your bokeh is one sided. Maybe Don can give us a lesson.
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bdunbar79 said:
The while point of a business is to correctly recognize market demand, to keep its existing customer base happy and to win as many new customers as possible. The bettera business does that, the highher its financial success and long-term viability.
Canon has done many things right in the past. Over the last 5+ years, they were not cutting edge any more in many areas. Less happy customers, more people buying from other companies. Not offering compelling APS-C and FF mirrorless systems is costing Canon a lot of customers and a lot of business. Canon's (and Nikon's) attempts to delay the demise of mirrorslappers does work, but only to some extent and at significant cost to them.
Oberall it does have a negative impact on their imaging business, even when they are still profitable today.
No amount of "canon Defense League fanboy denial" which is so prevalent and obvious on our forum here changes that. The future of photography and imaging does not include slapping mirrors. canon better go with it really quick now, otherwise ... Exactly: doom, Nokia, Kodak.
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AvTvM said:
Guess what? If Canon doesn't make the camera you personally think they should, that doesn't they're doomed, in fact it doesn't mean a damn thing except to you.
If the above-highlighted statement were actually true, we would see actual evidence of it, i.e. a significant drop in Canon's market share. We haven't, therefore the objective data demonstrate that your statement is wrong.
No amount of posting by mirrorslap-addled whiners who are not at all prevalent on our forum changes that.
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As is evident from the above posts, some of the CR community keep insisting that their complains of Canon products are representative of the entire market, Canon's competitors are way ahead and Canon remaining comatose (allegedly) will spell doom for it. This is also cited as a big reason why people they know are moving to different brands now.
OK... point taken, but I'm unable to understand that if you've been moaning about Canon cameras for the best part of over 3 years with a "canon is doomed" labeled on your forehead and still haven't changed brands, you are either a troll or an idiot, probably both.
To say that you and your camera hobby club members back home know better than a multi-million dollar corporation that hires incredibly smart people to do their product and market research is just silly.
Can Canon make better products? sure they can but they will only if it makes business sense to them - whether you agree with them or not.
OK... point taken, but I'm unable to understand that if you've been moaning about Canon cameras for the best part of over 3 years with a "canon is doomed" labeled on your forehead and still haven't changed brands, you are either a troll or an idiot, probably both.
To say that you and your camera hobby club members back home know better than a multi-million dollar corporation that hires incredibly smart people to do their product and market research is just silly.
Can Canon make better products? sure they can but they will only if it makes business sense to them - whether you agree with them or not.
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J.R. said:
personal attack. foul. unsportmanlike. reported.
All I am saying, is Canon is unneccessarily losing a lot of sales to Sony and Fuji mirrorless. Especially if Canon indeed were technically perfectly capable to bring fully competitive mirrorless cameras to market - from sensor to AF performance ... as some members of the Canon Defense League here incessantly claim. Without being able to provide any facts or figures to substantiate that claim.
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AvTvM said:
Please read my comment again ... did I name you anywhere? Or maybe looking at your own posting history you felt that this applied to you and you only?
AvTvM said:
My point still stands ... If it bothers you so much, why haven't you switch over to a Sony or a Fuji rather than keep repeating the same argument again and again and again and again and again and again ... ∞
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J.R. said:
Simple: because I have every right to express my opinion. Just like anyone else here.
In terms of my gear: Canon 5D II + a few L's. Use it less and less. Too big, clunky, heavy, obtrusive, for me ... most of the time. EOS M (1) plus set of EF-M lenses. Love the size, hate the missing viewfinder. M2, M3, M10 all did not offer enough to upgrade. Still hoping for a decent EOS M Pro, since I cannot get such nice lenses at such low prices from any other maker. And I do npot buy anything retro-styles .. there goes Fuji out the door.
Would buy both, APS-C EOS "M-Pro" and FF-sensored "EOS M5" - if as capable as my 5D III - plus some native compact short flange distance "EF-X" pancake lenses and a decent compact kit-zoom (24-85/4 or something along those lines)
But again, after being told over and over again by forum members here: I am the one and only person in the world who would ever buy this. Canon is a big corporation, spending lots of money and market research - they know better: all other 8 billion inhabitants of this planet prefer mirrorslappers, because one half of them think they got "Trump-sized hands". ;D
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AvTvM said:
So, where are your evidence, facts, or figures to support that Canon is losing 'a lot' of sales, or that it's 'unnecessary'? Just more BS spewing from a mirrorslap-confused forum whiner.
Objectively, we can see that Canon can produce competitive MILCs and are currently doing so. Additionally, they can produce FF sensors and new lens lines so could clearly launch FF MILCs if they choose to do so.
Objectively, we can also see that Canon has chosen not to invest heavily in the MILC market to date. Sure, it's an assumption that they have valid, data-driven business reasons for that decision – but it's an eminently reasonable and logical assumption. To assume they aren't investing heavily in mirrorless because they can't or are somehow too stupid to do something that would be a sound business decision is ludicrous. But I guess that's what happens when you get slapped around by a mirror until any brains you used to have leaked out of your ears.
AvTvM said:Simple: because I have every right to express my opinion. Just like anyone else here.
Yes, you certainly have every right to continue to express your opinion. By all means, don't let the fact that it's illogical, unsupported by facts or data, and makes you look ever more foolish stop you from expressing your opinion!
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Since I've played in this thread, and I think the other rumor about the 5DX is relevant. My post http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=29372.msg584831#msg584831
I am now thinking the FF sensor and processing market place is going to get one hell of a disruption. If my slightly educated guess is correct. Canon is going to create one hell of a stir.
That ~28MP FF sensor will become an amazing base for MILC, DSLR and dedicated video cameras.
I am now thinking the FF sensor and processing market place is going to get one hell of a disruption. If my slightly educated guess is correct. Canon is going to create one hell of a stir.
That ~28MP FF sensor will become an amazing base for MILC, DSLR and dedicated video cameras.
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And one last circle the wagons post.
Since we are comparing Canon to companies who have found the garbage can, and I think one or 2 good ones.
*IF* I am correct with my guess. This ~28MP FF sensor is going to be about as close to a black swan as we are going to get in the Camera market. It could explain why they did not do much behind the M. I would expect a 28M APS-C sensor out at some point when they can get the microlenses small enough.
But, my point, Canon is somewhat behaving like Apple under Steve Jobs. Don't release a product until the technology makes sense. Apple could have released an iPad much sooner than they did. But choose not to until they could manufacture a really good product for a really good price point.
Our guess at a ~28MP FF DPAF equipped sensor was that technology Canon was waiting on. And my guess it is here. Canon has his the Apple criteria for technology introduction.
And to repeat myself, let the product engineering and roll outs commence.
Since we are comparing Canon to companies who have found the garbage can, and I think one or 2 good ones.
*IF* I am correct with my guess. This ~28MP FF sensor is going to be about as close to a black swan as we are going to get in the Camera market. It could explain why they did not do much behind the M. I would expect a 28M APS-C sensor out at some point when they can get the microlenses small enough.
But, my point, Canon is somewhat behaving like Apple under Steve Jobs. Don't release a product until the technology makes sense. Apple could have released an iPad much sooner than they did. But choose not to until they could manufacture a really good product for a really good price point.
Our guess at a ~28MP FF DPAF equipped sensor was that technology Canon was waiting on. And my guess it is here. Canon has his the Apple criteria for technology introduction.
And to repeat myself, let the product engineering and roll outs commence.
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AvTvM said:
All of the DATA and FACTUAL information available today, completely disagrees with just about everything you said. It has nothing to do with defending Canon, but rather, having enough brain cells to read data and interpret the data to draw the correct conclusions. What you typed is completely the opposite of that.
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It is the end of the road for Canon, this is how the imaging branch did last year. It is in decline:
"Within the Imaging System Business Unit, although total sales volume of interchangeable-lens digital cameras
declined due to currency depreciations in emerging countries and the slowdown of China’s economy, there
were positive signs of a recovery in sales in the U.S. and Japan. Additionally, sales have been strong for such
models as the EOS 5DS and EOS 5DS R digital SLR cameras, which deliver the highest resolution of any
model in the history of EOS cameras. As for digital compact cameras, while sales volume declined amid the
ongoing contraction of the market, the ratio of more profitable high-added-value models increased owing to
efforts to strengthen the lineup of PowerShot G-series models. As for inkjet printers, although Canon has been
working to expand sales through the Company’s broad product lineup, ranging from home-use printers to
MAXIFY-series business models, total sales volume declined due to the significant impact of shrinking
markets, mainly in Asia. In contrast, sales of consumable supplies enjoyed solid demand. As a result, sales for
the business unit totaled ¥1,263.8 billion, a year-on-year decrease of 5.9%, while operating profit totaled
¥183.4 billion, declining 5.7% year on year."
Canon's Debt Ration
15. DEBT RATIO
Total debt / Total assets 0.0%
Canon's R&D, 328,000 million yen, 8.6% of sales.
Imaging System Operating Profit 183,439 million yen, 14.59% of sales
What can we conclude from this?
Canon sales are dropping like a movie set boulder filled with helium. 5.7% last year.
Selling cameras is a small portion (36%) of their business, yet that branch in declining years has a 14.59% profit margin.
Anyone with any sense can see that if you work less and make more money that is the surest way to go bankrupt. I mean 14.59% profit margin is ridiculous. Since they are not charging up the credit card debt and buying expensive toys how can they consider themselves successful in today's world. Anyone with any sense knows that the debt ratio should be 50 to 100% not 0.
"Within the Imaging System Business Unit, although total sales volume of interchangeable-lens digital cameras
declined due to currency depreciations in emerging countries and the slowdown of China’s economy, there
were positive signs of a recovery in sales in the U.S. and Japan. Additionally, sales have been strong for such
models as the EOS 5DS and EOS 5DS R digital SLR cameras, which deliver the highest resolution of any
model in the history of EOS cameras. As for digital compact cameras, while sales volume declined amid the
ongoing contraction of the market, the ratio of more profitable high-added-value models increased owing to
efforts to strengthen the lineup of PowerShot G-series models. As for inkjet printers, although Canon has been
working to expand sales through the Company’s broad product lineup, ranging from home-use printers to
MAXIFY-series business models, total sales volume declined due to the significant impact of shrinking
markets, mainly in Asia. In contrast, sales of consumable supplies enjoyed solid demand. As a result, sales for
the business unit totaled ¥1,263.8 billion, a year-on-year decrease of 5.9%, while operating profit totaled
¥183.4 billion, declining 5.7% year on year."
Canon's Debt Ration
15. DEBT RATIO
Total debt / Total assets 0.0%
Canon's R&D, 328,000 million yen, 8.6% of sales.
Imaging System Operating Profit 183,439 million yen, 14.59% of sales
What can we conclude from this?
Canon sales are dropping like a movie set boulder filled with helium. 5.7% last year.
Selling cameras is a small portion (36%) of their business, yet that branch in declining years has a 14.59% profit margin.
Anyone with any sense can see that if you work less and make more money that is the surest way to go bankrupt. I mean 14.59% profit margin is ridiculous. Since they are not charging up the credit card debt and buying expensive toys how can they consider themselves successful in today's world. Anyone with any sense knows that the debt ratio should be 50 to 100% not 0.
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J.R. said:
A quick definition search might help.
Opinion :a view or judgment formed about something, not necessarily based on fact or knowledge.
Fact :a thing that is indisputably the case.
So it would appear by these quick definitions that google pulled up, an opinion does not require a fact. It requires no knowledge either.
To argue fact vs opinion with someone with absolutely no knowledge is at best asinine.
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