rumor: D600 gets 16 Bit processing

F

Freelancer

Guest
The release probability of the Nikon D600 for Photokina is now at 99%. Here is an updated list of the specifications (new additions in bold):
•Very small and lightweight body
•16 bit image processing
•Expeed 3 processor
•Maximum video recording: 30 minutes
•Built-in mic
•19 scene modes
•Magnesium alloy only on top and back only
•Maximum shutter speed of 1/4000
•Shutter life: 150,000 cycles (the D800 is rated for 200,000 cycles)

http://nikonrumors.com/2012/08/30/updated-specifications-for-the-nikon-d600.aspx/#ixzz251haVGAP


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not entirely sure what the buzz about 16 bit PROCESSING is, i thought the processing is 16 bit already but the data is only 14 bit? (two bits are always zero).

does this mean it´s 16 bit from the sensor, through AD, to the prozessor?
 

Pitbullo

EOS 90D
May 25, 2012
157
0
So, this is the 5dMKIII competitor, not the D800. If the rumor about the price, $1500 is correct, then it is a 5DMKIII at half the price. Canon should be afraid.
 

preppyak

EOS R
Oct 18, 2011
1,024
78
Freelancer said:
it´s an entry level fullframe. not really a competition to the 5D MK3 other then sensor size and MP.
Well, 39pt AF, 5fps, etc. Granted, the ISO levels and SD cards are a big difference that would keep pro's away.

But, since there are plenty of hobbyists who would rather pay <$2000 for the 5dII over the 5dIII, I'd be a little worried if I was Canon. Because if they release that camera at $1500, and Canon doesn't have a response right away, the price of switching becomes very, very easy to justify when there is a $1500 price difference, and when Canon's entry full frame (5dII currently) is significantly under-spec'd.
 

dstppy

EOS R
Apr 26, 2011
981
0
Connecticut . . . ish.
Woohoo, I've always wanted to play Super Metroid on my camera.

Oh, wait, that's 16 bit graphics :eek:

Seriously, it's a rumor, and it's one thing, so isn't it too early to start with the "canon should be afraid" and "I'm selling all my gear" bit?
 
Mar 14, 2012
251
6
99%? I just don't buy it. A lot of those features they've listed are expensive to produce, and the whole point of this camera is that it's supposed to be cheap. 100% viewfinders are complicated to produce. Weather sealing costs money. Full frame sensors are expensive. They're placing this in the price range of the D300? No, I just don't see it.

And the timing makes no sense, either. The D800 is still hard to get, and Nikon hasn't even yet bothered to fix some major issues with it.
 

neuroanatomist

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Jul 21, 2010
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Pitbullo said:
So, this is the 5dMKIII competitor, not the D800. If the rumor about the price, $1500 is correct, then it is a 5DMKIII at half the price. Canon should be afraid.

Lol. Really? Max shutter a stop slower, limited use of magnesium alloy, 'very small and light', definitely an entry level FF camera, not a workhorse like the 5DIII. But who knows, since the D800 is a somewhat specialized camera vs. the 5DIII which is more of an all-purpose camera, the D600 may fill the same conceptual place in the Nikon lineup.

I see no reason for Canon to be afraid.

Stephen Melvin said:
A lot of those features they've listed are expensive to produce, and the whole point of this camera is that it's supposed to be cheap. 100% viewfinders are complicated to produce. Weather sealing costs money. Full frame sensors are expensive. They're placing this in the price range of the D300? No, I just don't see it.

Nikon has been behind Canon in dSLR market share for years, and maybe they are feeling internal (or shareholder) pressure to change that - could be they feel the need for a loss leader. Amazon sells the Kindle Fire for less than the cost to produce it.
 

simonxu11

EOS RP
Jan 11, 2012
237
0
dstppy said:
Woohoo, I've always wanted to play Super Metroid on my camera.

Oh, wait, that's 16 bit graphics :eek:

Seriously, it's a rumor, and it's one thing, so isn't it too early to start with the "canon should be afraid" and "I'm selling all my gear" bit?
Seriously, this D600 rumor has been posted online for a while and with its detailed specs and pics, it looks very promising.
Do we have a solid "6D" rumor at least CR2?
 

Viggo

EOS R5
Dec 13, 2010
4,740
1,431
I'm trying my best to keep my shutterspeed close to 1/8000s, it's Leica specs to have 1/4000s.
 

neuroanatomist

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Jul 21, 2010
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ecka said:
Daily specification updates of an imaginary camera doesn't make it any more real :)

Yeah, but we all said that in the runup to the D800 announcement, too... ::)
 

dstppy

EOS R
Apr 26, 2011
981
0
Connecticut . . . ish.
simonxu11 said:
dstppy said:
Seriously, it's a rumor, and it's one thing, so isn't it too early to start with the "canon should be afraid" and "I'm selling all my gear" bit?
Seriously, this D600 rumor has been posted online for a while and with its detailed specs and pics, it looks very promising.
Do we have a solid "6D" rumor at least CR2?

There's still rumors of a 5DmkII successor in the pipeline, and, well, the 5DmkII . . .

The only thing canon might have to admit (not fear) is going to get some (New, not people selling their gear) business for a competitor is A FF under $1800 (this one says $1.5k, but that remains to be seen).

Besides, I hear the 6D is going to be 56megapixels and priced under the current 5DmkII. ::) People should probably start selling their gear now ;)
 

wockawocka

EOS R
Sep 13, 2011
855
158
So only a few months after the D800 and D4 are released Nikon releases a FF camera with 16bit processing?

That's going to piss people off.
 

Positron

EOS 90D
Jan 7, 2012
129
0
ecka said:
Daily specification updates of an imaginary camera doesn't make it any more real :)

As a person very interested in both a budget full-frame body and the pressure of competition on the market, I've been checking for updates every day. The last one of any substance was on August 4, and the last one that actually had theretofore unheard specifications was May 23 (!). So "daily" is wrong at best and malicious/trolling at worst.
 

psolberg

EOS RP
Feb 8, 2012
619
17
Freelancer said:
Pitbullo said:
So, this is the 5dMKIII competitor, not the D800. If the rumor about the price, $1500 is correct, then it is a 5DMKIII at half the price. Canon should be afraid.


it´s an entry level fullframe.
not really a competition to the 5D MK3 other then sensor size and MP.

really? I disagree. first of all it is cheaper. big plus. second it is just 1fps slower. not enough to justify the cost of the 5DmkIII. Has slightly superior resolution and if the D800 is any indication, it will easily outclass the 5DmkIII in dynamic range and low noise in shadow areas at low ISO. Surely the 5DIII will have the better AF system and probably more pro-body feel. But if this camera costs 1500 dollars, you can buy two for the price of one 5DIII and the 5DIII isn't twice the camera. sorry.
 

psolberg

EOS RP
Feb 8, 2012
619
17
Freelancer said:
The release probability of the Nikon D600 for Photokina is now at 99%. Here is an updated list of the specifications (new additions in bold):
•Very small and lightweight body
•16 bit image processing
•Expeed 3 processor
•Maximum video recording: 30 minutes
•Built-in mic
•19 scene modes
•Magnesium alloy only on top and back only
•Maximum shutter speed of 1/4000
•Shutter life: 150,000 cycles (the D800 is rated for 200,000 cycles)

http://nikonrumors.com/2012/08/30/updated-specifications-for-the-nikon-d600.aspx/#ixzz251haVGAP


----

not entirely sure what the buzz about 16 bit PROCESSING is, i thought the processing is 16 bit already but the data is only 14 bit? (two bits are always zero).

does this mean it´s 16 bit from the sensor, through AD, to the prozessor?

I think all Nikon's have a 16bit pipeline internally. But they end up recording at 14bit since nothing really uses all the bit space and the files would be larger. The D800 maybe with its 14+stops of DR is just about the only camera that takes good advantage of 14bit raw files. The canon's are stuck in 12 stop land so I doubt canon will see in necessary to increase the bit width anytime soon.

It probably won't happen, but if they had 16 bit raws and an increase in DR to take advantage of that extra room then it would make one killer camera for 1500 dollars.
 

neuroanatomist

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Jul 21, 2010
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dilbert said:
wockawocka said:
So only a few months after the D800 and D4 are released Nikon releases a FF camera with 16bit processing?

That's going to piss people off.

Not really.


Sure it will...especially after DxO releases a result showing the D600 can achieve 16.8 stops of DR. :-X
 

weixing

EOS RP
Jul 20, 2010
618
19
Hi,
neuroanatomist said:
dilbert said:
wockawocka said:
So only a few months after the D800 and D4 are released Nikon releases a FF camera with 16bit processing?

That's going to piss people off.

Not really.


Sure it will...especially after DxO releases a result showing the D600 can achieve 16.8 stops of DR. :-X
Hmm... how do you get 16.8 stop when there is only 16-bits??

If Nikon come out with such a full frame camera at such low price, I have no doubt that it'll sell well, but most likely will also eat into Nikon D7000 or D800 sales. It's also good news for Canon user as Canon sure will response with a low cost full frame camera... competition is good!

Have a nice day.
 
C

Canon-F1

Guest
psolberg said:
Freelancer said:
Pitbullo said:
So, this is the 5dMKIII competitor, not the D800. If the rumor about the price, $1500 is correct, then it is a 5DMKIII at half the price. Canon should be afraid.


it´s an entry level fullframe.
not really a competition to the 5D MK3 other then sensor size and MP.

really? I disagree. first of all it is cheaper. big plus. second it is just 1fps slower. not enough to justify the cost of the 5DmkIII. Has slightly superior resolution and if the D800 is any indication, it will easily outclass the 5DmkIII in dynamic range and low noise in shadow areas at low ISO. Surely the 5DIII will have the better AF system and probably more pro-body feel. But if this camera costs 1500 dollars, you can buy two for the price of one 5DIII and the 5DIII isn't twice the camera. sorry.

go buy a rebel.. it´s even cheaper.. LOL ;D

i can buy three VW golfs for one porsche.

i think most who are interested in a 5D MK3 (and need it´s features) would not be satisified with the specs from the D600.

the D600 will sure be no bad camera, but a camera is more then then sensor size and pixel count.

build quality, af, iso range not to mention all the small things that make the 5D MK3 an incredible tool are missing (or worse) in the D600 as it seems.

it will be a nice entry level FF camera for amateurs. but i doubt professionals will choose it over a 5D MK3.
 

neuroanatomist

I post too Much on Here!!
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Jul 21, 2010
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weixing said:
neuroanatomist said:
Sure it will...especially after DxO releases a result showing the D600 can achieve 16.8 stops of DR. :-X
Hmm... how do you get 16.8 stop when there is only 16-bits??

Simple - you massage manipulate fudge normalize the data. DxOMark scored the D800, with it's 14-bit ADC, at 14.4 Ev of DR (their 'landscape score').

If you want the technical explanation, DxO's Scores are normalized to an 8 MP print, and downsampling a higher resolution image to 8 MP for comparison purposes gives a boost (an unfair one, I think) to ISO and DR performance. That boost gets proportionally higher as sensor resolution increases, so it's no real surprise that a 36 MP FF sensor gets top Scores. IMO, DxO's Scores (overall and use case) are useless, although their Measurements are useful, provided you set them to Screen view vs. Print (for example, the Screen measurement for the D800 is 13.23 stops of DR at the lowerst ISO - and that actually is possible with a 14-bit ADC).
 

Positron

EOS 90D
Jan 7, 2012
129
0
The number of attainable stops of DR is theoretically independent of the resolution of the ADC, though, since using tricks like variable resistance or non-linear quantization you could compress any number of stops of real-world scene into any number of bits of data. The result wouldn't necessarily be useful, but then when did we care about that? :p

What I want to know, if anyone cares to explain it, is what exactly "16-bit processing" actually means. If it means that the camera's internal memory has a 16-bit address space, then it's completely meaningless mumbo-jumbo. If it means the ADC is 16 bits but the final image is stored as 14 bits, then they are throwing away 75% of the data captured (and a ton of wasted processing power) to save 12% of the space (4 MB, at best?), which seems like a Really Bad Idea for RAWs. So what's going on here?