Hey everyone. Have been using a 5D3 for the last 5 years. Typically would use the EOS M + 11-22 as a back up especially when hiking. Would like to consider a more advanced second body so that one is mounted with a wide angle and the other with a telephoto zoom. Mostly do natural light portrait, travel landscape and kids events (stage dancing, etc). Any suggestions? 5DsR, 5d4 or wait for the upcoming 6D2? Appreciate your thoughts.
Second camera option
- Thread starter Phenix205
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Phenix205
regardless, if you're looking at FF for wide angle travel landscape, I would think about the lens first and compare it to the 11-22 you have now. unless you're already lugging a FF wide with you.
your 16-35 IS is 3x the weight of the 11-22
regardless, if you're looking at FF for wide angle travel landscape, I would think about the lens first and compare it to the 11-22 you have now. unless you're already lugging a FF wide with you.
your 16-35 IS is 3x the weight of the 11-22
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Phenix205 said:
Looks like you are wanting a 2nd FF DSLR. The 5D4 is a terrific all-arounder, but if you are not in a hurry, wait for the 6D2 to be announced to see what it offers compared with the other FF bodies currently available. Its a terrific time to be a photographer, so many excellent equipment options.
What capabilities are you looking for that would enhance your photography (more FPS, greater resolution, better shadow recovery, etc.)
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bholliman said:
+1
For an allrounder, I may go for 5D4. If MP count is important, then 5DsR (that's what I got for that reason). For FPS, 1DxII [not on your list, but anyway]. If you want to retain familiarity with controls, I would stay away from 6Dx, and stay in 5D family. If price is an important factor, than consider 6Dx.
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maybe the wrong forum here, but in my defense I have been shooting Canon (for small format) since the mid 1980s, (new F1) but I shoot performance (music and occasionally dance) in smaller venues and find performers are much more comfortable with small quiet cameras pointed at them. So i just upgraded my NEX to a Sony a6500 because of its completely silent shutter mode. (My 6D is pretty quiet, one of the main reasons I got it instead of the 5D3, when I went (amateur) and away from one series.
side note: above comments don't apply to theatre, actors light up when you point big noisy cameras at them.
side note: above comments don't apply to theatre, actors light up when you point big noisy cameras at them.
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Phenix205 said:
Of the cameras you suggest, I'[d get a 5D Mark IV. However, having a small camera and lens for occasions where size matters is definitely useful. Ask yourself again if you would want two larger cameras. If so, any of your three choices are fine. I like to share lenses batteries and memory cards, so that may be a consideration. I don't believe a 6D uses CF cards nor has dual cards. I'm interested in DPAF, for photos with static subjects, having extremely accurate AF without AFMA is appealing, and video shorts with autofocus are as well. The 6D and 5D IV excell in low light.
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I have an M5 for my toss-n-pocket carry around and it does great. I also have a 7DM2 and use it for wildlife/action and some macro/landscape. I'm probably going to get a 5DM4 (after I see what Canon does with the 6D2) for more serious landscape/night skies.
I keep a telly (Canon 100-400) on the 7D and have an 18-150 on the M5. If I get a 5DM4, I'll keep a wide-angle on it most of the time. I do have a wide angle for the 7DM2, but I rarely use it.
In any case, have you considered the 7DM2? It will get you closer and has incredible focusing and weather sealing, plus many other great features and would work great for dance/action, plus you get in closer because it's the 1.6 crop. It's also around $1300 for the body refurbished from Canon. I bought mine refurbished and it's like new. You can also get an 80D refurb for $800.
I keep a telly (Canon 100-400) on the 7D and have an 18-150 on the M5. If I get a 5DM4, I'll keep a wide-angle on it most of the time. I do have a wide angle for the 7DM2, but I rarely use it.
In any case, have you considered the 7DM2? It will get you closer and has incredible focusing and weather sealing, plus many other great features and would work great for dance/action, plus you get in closer because it's the 1.6 crop. It's also around $1300 for the body refurbished from Canon. I bought mine refurbished and it's like new. You can also get an 80D refurb for $800.
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D
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Phenix205 said:
Based on the requirements you laid out in your post, sounds like 5D4 will be your best bet. More advanced than the 5D3 without being a bulky 1D, and the 6D would be a step back ergomonics-wise. Unless you crave significantly more resolution and detail, which the 5DSR would provide, but at the cost of high ISO performance...and as an owner of one, I'll say that would not be my camera of choice if I needed/wanted to shoot a stage performance (I don't really do that type of photography, but I have been in similar low light/spotlight situations). ETA: This is not to say it would do poorly in such a setting, but with the 5D4 also on hand, the R would not provide me with the optimum result given my choices of equipment.
5D4 is the all-arounder, like the 5D3 - jack of all trades, master of none. 5DSR is more of a specialist tool...which excels at what it's designed for.
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I would also get a 5D4, and make the 5D3 your second body.
At least, this is what I'll be doing soon.
The 6D2 could be an interesting option, but as it will likely outperform the 5D3, you'll probably start considering that as your main body, and at that point I'd rather have a 5 series than a 6 series.
At least, this is what I'll be doing soon.
The 6D2 could be an interesting option, but as it will likely outperform the 5D3, you'll probably start considering that as your main body, and at that point I'd rather have a 5 series than a 6 series.
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+1 to thisrfdesigner said:
Phenix205, your initial task (replacing an EOS M by a pro FF body) got me a little bit puzzled.
Seems like you're going for the task to reset your standard setup or you need some GAS arguments to get something newer than your 5D3.
So my advice is this:
- wait until EOS 6D2 and SL2/110D are announced
- rethink, redefine your task, your needs
- if you want to go for a second FF body, choose after you know what you'll get from a 6D2
- if you want to stay small and just increase the performance of your APS-C, maybe even use the EF-M 11-22 on, consider a EOS M5 or M6 or a SL2/110D
- but still think about the advice of rfdesigner
Good luck with your decision.
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drmikeinpdx
Celebrating 20 years of model photography!
I would need to know more about the OP's needs and style before offering advice. First, I would ask which of the listed genres needs the second body? In what circumstances would it allow you to make better images?
When you are mobile, how important is size and weight? Does the weight of your gear ever keep you from making it to the next really cool photo spot?
Do you really want to lug two full frame cameras with lenses when doing travel photography or hiking? Are you also carrying a tripod? (That will affect not only the weight you must carry, but will tell us something about what level of resolution and sharpness you are producing.)
And as someone else already mentioned: which new technical features do you feel will enhance your photography?
So many questions!
When you are mobile, how important is size and weight? Does the weight of your gear ever keep you from making it to the next really cool photo spot?
Do you really want to lug two full frame cameras with lenses when doing travel photography or hiking? Are you also carrying a tripod? (That will affect not only the weight you must carry, but will tell us something about what level of resolution and sharpness you are producing.)
And as someone else already mentioned: which new technical features do you feel will enhance your photography?
So many questions!
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I believe that the 5D Mark IV will do everything that you need and would probably be your main camera with the Mark III being the backup. There should be a minimal learning curve with what you already have. Looks like you have some good glass. But, you did mention hiking and telephoto in the same sentence. Hope you have a strong back and legs,
The disadvantages of the 6D II would be that the camera will be very different from the Mark III that you already own, thus a pretty steep learning curve. No joystick, etc. You won't save that much weight. But it will be cheaper than the 5D Mark IV, so I would say that if you can afford it, go with the Mark IV.
The disadvantages of the 6D II would be that the camera will be very different from the Mark III that you already own, thus a pretty steep learning curve. No joystick, etc. You won't save that much weight. But it will be cheaper than the 5D Mark IV, so I would say that if you can afford it, go with the Mark IV.
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Thank you all for your inputs. I have decided to go with a 5DsR as my second camera. The 5D3 will probably still be used as my main camera for casual shots for schools and regular kids activities as those photos are mostly just printed at 4x6 or 5x7 size or simply viewed on computer (or phone) when shared with family and friends. The file size of 5D3 is more manageable and the camera is more forgiving to shaking. If I get a 5DIV, I know the 5D3 will probably seldom get used again.
For travel/landscape or posed family portrait or large group portrait (e.g., kids' team portrait), I think the high resolution of 5DsR will provide tremendous benefit. One, these photos are more likely printed at larger size. Two, the additional leverage in cropping will be very helpful for long day City travel or long distance hiking. I could just mount a wide angle zoom on the 5DsR to crop out unwanted stuff or get extra effective reach when needed.
Considering how my photos will be used/printed, I think the 5DsR has what 5D4 can never offer - the amazing details and more freedom of cropping provided by the 50MP sensor. For other general uses, the 5D3 is still a solid performer, especially for web publishing. Yes, the 5D4 has more dynamic range, but those are software mitigable issues. I have always tried to get the exposure right and never had a need to increase exposure more than 1.5 stops to pull the details out in shadows.
Thanks again.
For travel/landscape or posed family portrait or large group portrait (e.g., kids' team portrait), I think the high resolution of 5DsR will provide tremendous benefit. One, these photos are more likely printed at larger size. Two, the additional leverage in cropping will be very helpful for long day City travel or long distance hiking. I could just mount a wide angle zoom on the 5DsR to crop out unwanted stuff or get extra effective reach when needed.
Considering how my photos will be used/printed, I think the 5DsR has what 5D4 can never offer - the amazing details and more freedom of cropping provided by the 50MP sensor. For other general uses, the 5D3 is still a solid performer, especially for web publishing. Yes, the 5D4 has more dynamic range, but those are software mitigable issues. I have always tried to get the exposure right and never had a need to increase exposure more than 1.5 stops to pull the details out in shadows.
Thanks again.
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Phenix205 said:
I get quite curious as to what size you're planning to print.
I've got good experiences from people pressing their noses up against prints all the way down to 160 DPI, with forgiving subject matter (snow, mountains, clouds) and paper (with some structure).
The 20Mpx 5DmkII files look amazing in B+ size and 5DmkIV... well I've not come around to doing any large prints yet, but I've got some mathematical reasons to believing they'd be perfect at any combination of size and distance where I could see the whole print moving nothing but my eyes.
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My wife loves large family portrait printed out and hung on the wall. For landscape, probably 20x30 or larger. I never had an issue printing large from the 5D3 files, AS LONG AS I didn't have to crop the original much. Once you start cropping, the file size gets smaller quickly and details are lost. Of course, getting the composition right in the first place is always most preferred but it didn't always happen. The mega sensor in the 5DsR will provide more flexibility.
If I didn't have a 5D3, I would have had pre-ordered a 5D4 when it was announced. For what I shoot and how I use the photos, I couldn't justify paying another 3 grands for the additional benefits the 5D4 brings over the 5D3. Even when I upgraded the 5D3 in the future (a 5D5?), I'd probably keep the 5DsR.
If I didn't have a 5D3, I would have had pre-ordered a 5D4 when it was announced. For what I shoot and how I use the photos, I couldn't justify paying another 3 grands for the additional benefits the 5D4 brings over the 5D3. Even when I upgraded the 5D3 in the future (a 5D5?), I'd probably keep the 5DsR.
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Phenix205 said:
Good luck, but I wonder about lugging a heavy tripod with a 5DSR for travel. You do not get the benefit of all those pixels unless the camera is extremely stable, like bolted in concrete. A heavy stable tripod with underweight and bean bagged legs would be a starting point for you to to get images that can be greatly cropped.
Sure, it won't give worse results than a 5D MK III, but hand holding it and expecting to be able to crop images greatly is a bit of wishful thinking. Camera testers had to develop new and more solid fixtures while testing the camera in order to get the sharp images it is capable of. In any event, its a great camera, just make sure your expectations are aligned with reality.
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Mt Spokane Photography said:
If possible, you should try and rent the camera before you decide. I agree that there is a good chance that you won't get the benefit of those extra MPs if you are hand-holding. Frankly, if I were looking for a second camera just for the convenience of not changing lenses, I would get a used 5D III or something cheaper.
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It's all about techniques. I think this handholding issue has been discussed quite a bit and mounting this baby on tripod all the time is just an exaggeration. Some people cannot even take a sharp photo with a smart phone camera.
I'd be interested in hearing from someone who has actually used the camera.
I'd be interested in hearing from someone who has actually used the camera.
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