Show me a SHARP 5D Mark IV photo

[Mikehit]

Mikehit - that's very off putting, I hated the 7D2 I had because it never did produce a sharp photo. Sold mine within months and never looked back. Would be a major letdown to have the same disappointment again with the 5D4.

The 7D2 AF can be awkward at times but when it hits it is as good as the 5D4 from my (albeit limited) experience, but the AF on the 5DIV was far more assured and hunted much less and as a result my hit rate with the 5DIV was higher than the 7D2.
But don't let that distract you from my main point - that unless you are really pushing the camera to its limit, image quality from a well focussed shot is the last reason I would upgrade.

You really need to separate two issues: what the camera is capable of when fully focussed (the real indicator of sensor 'sharpness') and how good the AF is. From your latest posts I am not really sure what you are looking for.

I would suggest you look at the review by Arash Hazheghi, one of the most demanding users I have ever read. He passed on the 7D2, the 5D3 and the 5DSR. But he is more than happy with the 5D4 as a back up to his 1Dx2. Also check out his images on birdphotographers.net.

 

[dak723]

With the higher mp the output size or enlargement is greater, so at 100% a 30 mp 5DIV should appear softer than the 5DIII. When reduced to the same output size it should be the same. The more the file is reduced the sharper it will appear, so bringing a 50 mp 5Ds down to say 23 would result in a very sharp file.

This.

 

[Mikehit]

Here you go. The sharpness on her face is what I'm looking for. This is the photo before my post processing, notice that I was shooting almost wide open with her face on the edge of the frame, and the sharpness is still great even before doing anything on LR or PS.

5D3 - 70-200 2.8 IS II @F3.2 - ISO100 - 1/200s with one octabox

The bit I have boldened is a description of lens limitation, not sensor resolution nor even focussing accuracy. The fact you have made the comment brings me back to my previous post that I wonder if you are conflating different issues and not really breaking it down to the different elements.

 

[AlanF]

Mike
I recall from memory that Arash's review wrote that the 5DIV is superior in every way to the 5DIII. I also recall from elsewhere that he passed on the 5DSR because he found a longer shutter delay after pressing the button, which is no good for him as his speciality is BIF. I have done 100s of comparisons of my 5DSR with my 5DIV and find first hand that the DSR is sharper. The superior sharpness and resolution is such that that the 5DSR + 100-400mm II at 400mm produces as good images as the 5DIV + 400mm DO II + 1.4xTC, and both are better than the 7DII plus 400mm.

Actually, Arash's photos emphasise composition and action rather than clinical pixel-peeking sharpness.

 

[Mancubus]

Here you go. The sharpness on her face is what I'm looking for. This is the photo before my post processing, notice that I was shooting almost wide open with her face on the edge of the frame, and the sharpness is still great even before doing anything on LR or PS.

5D3 - 70-200 2.8 IS II @F3.2 - ISO100 - 1/200s with one octabox

The bit I have boldened is a description of lens limitation, not sensor resolution nor even focussing accuracy. The fact you have made the comment brings me back to my previous post that I wonder if you are conflating different issues and not really breaking it down to the different elements.

I actually mentioned it to emphasize that even on a crippled situation (frame edge, large aperture) the 5D3 still delivered a sharpness that I have yet to see on a 5D4.

 

[Mikehit]

I actually mentioned it to emphasize that even on a crippled situation (frame edge, large aperture) the 5D3 still delivered a sharpness that I have yet to see on a 5D4.

Frame edge and large aperture are crippling for the lens, not for the body. The body simply records the light that the lens sends to it.

So I will repeat my question - are your concerns about accuracy of focus or are about resolving capability of the sensor? I have not yet seen a review that says the 5DIV has less resolving capability than the 5D3.

I am starting to think that you have in mind a very specific set of criteria and people are finding it hard to frame their answer in a way that satisfies you. I suggest the best option is to rent one for a few days and see if it delivers what you need.

 

[Hector1970]

As an owner of both the 5DSR and 5D IV I much prefer the 5D IV.
For me it's a much better all round camera.
The frame rate is very useful and I find the image better from it.
The 5DSR I find is poor in high ISO situations. The grain on my version is a bit smudgy.
The grain on the 5D IV is much finer.
I always felt the 5DSR was over pushed to get to 50mp.

I used both side by side in Norway recently and the 5D IV performed better.
The 5DSR needs to be on a tripod with good light to match the 5DIV.

There is no doubt the 5DSR under perfect conditions is a great camera but it's not a great all-rounder.
The 5D IV is an incremental improvement on the 5DIII.
It's not remarkably better.
The 5DIII was good (but unable to swim in sea-water unfortunately).

If I had the choice between the two I would immediately pick the 5D IV.

 

[Mancubus]

I actually mentioned it to emphasize that even on a crippled situation (frame edge, large aperture) the 5D3 still delivered a sharpness that I have yet to see on a 5D4.

Frame edge and large aperture are crippling for the lens, not for the body. The body simply records the light that the lens sends to it.

So I will repeat my question - are your concerns about accuracy of focus or are about resolving capability of the sensor? I have not yet seen a review that says the 5DIV has less resolving capability than the 5D3.

I am starting to think that you have in mind a very specific set of criteria and people are finding it hard to frame their answer in a way that satisfies you. I suggest the best option is to rent one for a few days and see if it delivers what you need.

Maybe I didn't make myself clear enough.

I want to buy a 5D4, I really do. The improved focus accuracy (I hope so!) will allow me to get more keepers, the DR improvement will allow me to push shadows more, the Live view focus will actually make Live view usable and even allow me to make videos if I want.

However, I am very careful when buying a new camera because I was "very" disappointed with my 7D2 when it came out, the image quality was nowhere near as good as my 70D (at the time) and I felt cheated. I tried to find what was wrong with it, blamed myself, the lens, the situation...at one point I sent the 7D2 to Canon and they returned it to me weeks later saying there was nothing wrong.

So I sold it to the shop and added some $ to get myself a 5D3 - the difference was night and day, that quality and sharpness made me happy immediately.

My concern is due to the fact that every image I've seen from the 5D4 looks more like my damned 7D2 than my 5D3, I couldn't find any sharp examples although there are many people here claiming that are possible. It might be the strong AA filter, I'm not sure. All I know is that I'm not happy with what I've seen so far.

If that portrait (or the feline) posted by Viggo was taken with a 5D4, I would rest my case and apologise for the inconvenience. All I see here from people defending the 5D4 are words or photos in the wrong specs (too small or wrong conditions). Thread is in page 4 and not a single photo that allows me to see real sharpness has been shown.

 

[Maximilian]

Maybe I didn't make myself clear enough.

I want to buy a 5D4, I really do. The improved ...

All I know is that I'm not happy with what I've seen so far.
...
Thread is in page 4 and not a single photo that allows me to see real sharpness has been shown.

Hi Mancubus!

I've read some posts of this already 48 posts long thread and flipped through the rest of it.
To cut a long story short I'd sum it up that way:

• your GAS makes you want the new 5D4
  (i.e. GAS here also means believe in better IQ from newer products)
• you know how well your 5D3 works and so you hesitate
• you want us to deliver facts to justify your GAS
• you don't see real differences to the better so you hesitate even more

Conclusion:
Either you rent and test a 5D4 and push it to the IQ limits, seeing if you can achieve something better within a few hours/days.
Or you stay happy with your 5D3 as long as it is serviced by Canon knowing what you can get out of it.
AND... if you're still willing (and having) to spend money for your GAS, go get a lens you've been surely already looking for

 

[Mikehit]

Maybe I didn't make myself clear enough.

I want to buy a 5D4, I really do. The improved focus accuracy (I hope so!) will allow me to get more keepers, the DR improvement will allow me to push shadows more, the Live view focus will actually make Live view usable and even allow me to make videos if I want.

However, I am very careful when buying a new camera because I was "very" disappointed with my 7D2 when it came out, the image quality was nowhere near as good as my 70D (at the time) and I felt cheated. I tried to find what was wrong with it, blamed myself, the lens, the situation...at one point I sent the 7D2 to Canon and they returned it to me weeks later saying there was nothing wrong.

So I sold it to the shop and added some $ to get myself a 5D3 - the difference was night and day, that quality and sharpness made me happy immediately.

My concern is due to the fact that every image I've seen from the 5D4 looks more like my damned 7D2 than my 5D3, I couldn't find any sharp examples although there are many people here claiming that are possible. It might be the strong AA filter, I'm not sure. All I know is that I'm not happy with what I've seen so far.

If that portrait (or the feline) posted by Viggo was taken with a 5D4, I would rest my case and apologise for the inconvenience. All I see here from people defending the 5D4 are words or photos in the wrong specs (too small or wrong conditions). Thread is in page 4 and not a single photo that allows me to see real sharpness has been shown.

I feel your pain!
It is a pain in the rear when a bit of gear does not live up to your hopes so I can understand your cautions. A big problem is that everyone's standards are different and I know there are people who would say my acceptability on noise (as an example) make images unusable for them.

If you google '5DIV raw samples' you will find review sites that post unedited files you can play with, such as

http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/canon-5d-iv/canon-5d-ivGALLERY.HTM

But as already mentioned you will only have real peace of mind if you rent one and try it out.

 

[leGreve]

5D IV 70-200L IS(version 1)
I'll just leave this here, don't ask

Gold Keith! sums up the request peferctly ;D

Except it isn't very sharp :

Not very sharp- just sharp enough. ( click on it for full size )

Canon EOS 5D Mark IV test © Keith Breazeal by Keith Breazeal, on Flickr

That one here... it has what I've seen some often from Canon files... dunno what it is, but it just doesn't feel completely sharp.

At our studio we have a term: "it's Canon sharp"

What it means, that it doesn't compare to our Phase One backs by a mile, by it's acceptable. I honestly don't think I've ever seen a Canon file sharper than that. And I don't necessarily mean that in a bad way.
But it's just not "perfect".

If only we could digiback quality in a small size for a reasonable price

 

[pdirestajr]

Not trying to be a troll here, but what is everyone really doing with all these pixel level perfectly sharp photos?

 

[Viggo]

Not trying to be a troll here, but what is everyone really doing with all these pixel level perfectly sharp photos?

My watch is waterproof to about 250 ft. I will never go that deep, but it's nice to know I can wash my hands without having to take it off. Same with my photo's, it's not that I print it so big I can see the 100% crop from a couple of meters away, but it's nice to know that they are technically optimal for whatever use I have, because it isn't that difficult to nail focus and have fast enough shutter and sharp enough lenses.

 

[scyrene]

Not trying to be a troll here, but what is everyone really doing with all these pixel level perfectly sharp photos?

My watch is waterproof to about 250 ft. I will never go that deep, but it's nice to know I can wash my hands without having to take it off. Same with my photo's, it's not that I print it so big I can see the 100% crop from a couple of meters away, but it's nice to know that they are technically optimal for whatever use I have, because it isn't that difficult to nail focus and have fast enough shutter and sharp enough lenses.

Is there such a thing as 'technically optimal shapness' though? How sharp isn't sharp enough, or enough, or even too much, is not agreed. It may well be (for the reasons of AA filter, though that's just a supposition, and greater magnification inherent with higher resolution images) that images from the 5D4 and 1Dx2 appear slightly less sharp OOC than the same shots taken with a 5D3 and 1Dx. The OP took this to an extreme by saying they'd never seen a "sharp" 5D4 image. I don't think that kind of outlying concern can be assuaged with real data or explanation.

 

[Mikehit]

What it means, that it doesn't compare to our Phase One backs by a mile,

Why would you expect to...?

 

[Steve Balcombe]

Not trying to be a troll here, but what is everyone really doing with all these pixel level perfectly sharp photos?

In my case, cropping them heavily, sometimes to the point where that last few % of sharpness makes a real difference.

 

[YuengLinger]

One more example, different from the others. ef 70-200mm f/4, ISO 160, f/8. Again, light processing in LR only. No crop.

 

[tomscott]

There must have been something wrong with your 7DMKII for it to be worse than a 70D. I bought my 7DMKII to accompany my 5DMKIII while traveling for a year, I also bought the gf a 70D.

I have to say I don't love the 7DMKII images because when you compare them to a FF camera they just don't have that magical feel the FF sensors have, but it is leaps and bounds better than the gfs 70D but is perfectly fine for her. The focus is also awesome and I think the IQ is actually pretty impressive for a crop body.

Unfortunately my home was burgled last week and I caught them half way through the act, my studio was destroyed my Mac pro across the room my 2 27" cinema displays were thrown down the stairs and destroyed. My server was across the room like it had been thrown. They had a pillow with at least 10ks worth of my camera gear in it. Would have been absolutely devastated if it had all gone.

Fortunately with me catchin them they only got away with 2x MacBook airs an 11 and 13, ipad 2 128gb, iPhone 6s 128gb but they took my 5DMKIII which was downloading images at the time with a 100mm L Macro. Unfortunately a 4tb drive full to the brim of images thankfully backed up on my sever.

Nothing that cant be replaced but still a pretty miserable experience.

Its just stuff but ive been round the world with the camera, loads of motorsports events and weddings and it had its battle scars that were unique to me. Really attached to it, funny how you get attached to your work tools. It had just rolled over 200k so not the worth a huge amount but lots of amazing memories and of course images.

So unfortunately I am now looking for a replacement, another 5DMKIII, 5DSr, IV or a 1DX MKI.

Thanks for the images from my perspective all the images posted are very impressive and looks like another amazing workhorse from canon, but all this pixel peeping and optimal sharpness is a bit anal. The likelihood of these ideal perfect situations cropping up in the real world are minimal unless they are staged scenes with studio light.

But is the IV worth £1000 more than a 5DMKIII at this point... I'm not sure. If this hardware update rumour is true then you would be mad to buy one in the near future? Until you can find one with this update done?

 

[Mikehit]

But is the IV worth £1000 more than a 5DMKIII at this point... I'm not sure. If this hardware update rumour is true then you would be mad to buy one in the near future? Until you can find one with this update done?

Canon very rarely make great leaps forward (the 7D and the for its AF capability and the 5DR(S) for their resolution are exceptions that spring to mind), but major strongly on updating the interface items that make a big difference to the way a camera handles. So on release you often hear that the specs of the 'upgrade' is unimpressive....until the pros and enthusiasts get their hands on it a really like the overall improvement in the package. The 5DIV seems very much another step in that direction.

Whether the hardware update is real is anyone's guess...

 

[tomscott]

TBH the 7DMKII feels like much snappier than the 5DMKIII, not it actual speed (FPS) but the UI feels quicker the operation seems quicker too and the updated viewfinder were all welcome features I didn't think about as pros until after I bought it. Made the 5DMKIII feel quite old in comparison so I'm sure the IV will feel similar.

Wonder if it will have a big price fall like the 5DMKIII did after the first 12 months.