So ready for a move up from 450D - But how big? 5DMIII / 6D or ..? Edit: DONE !!

[PKinDenmark]

My first new topic here.
I hope for some experienced advice based on my situation.

I am an all-round enthusiastic hobby photographer - doing people, landscape, still-life, animals (many small birds, very little BIF), music, architecture, travel, enter competitions now and then, etc.....
(Currently only stills. May want to take a look at video someday, but not key to me.)

Started out with Canon G5 (which I loved) in 2004.
Moved up to DSLR, EOS 450D = Rebel XSi (even more so) during 2008.
Have been ready for a body-upgrade several times - but seem to always buy some optics instead.

Current line-up (trying to do it in sequence of most used first): (All are Canon EOS)
- 15-85 / 70-200 4.0 IS / 24-105 4.0 / 10-22 / 50 1.4 / 100 macro 2.8 IS

I like DSLR.
I still like the 450D for size, low weight, reach (1.6 factor)

I most of all look for better:
- IQ and Lowlight capability
- Focusing (precision - maybe also more speed), consider AFMA a must have

Would also love:
- Flexible display (still miss that from G5 in many special shooting-situations)
- Wifi (for remote control and shooting)
- Even more reach (so still need for longer glass, I know)
- More effective operation (but would that be touch-screen, joy-stick, or ......?)

... all without having to haul too much weight and size.

I do have budget for quite a move - the most important is to make the right one.

I have followed this site - and other sources - for information about the key candidates regarding specs / features / price-levels etc. But have had no hands-on with any of these. So what I ask for is your advice based on real world experience.

My thoughts and questions:
- Must I go Full Frame (I see a lot of strong arguments for that - and also a few against)
- If FF then I like most of the characteristics of 6D - but focusing is clearly a concern
- I am concerned that the day after my purchase, I will se Canon announce the 'for me perfect compromise'

So some questions:
- What would you recommend in general in above situation?
- Will the 6D represent a large upgrade from 450D regarding focusing? How large?
- Could a new sensor (long awaited) in a new crop (e.g. 70D) be the 'for me perfect compromise'?
- Wait for announcements - or move now?

Look forward to your thoughts.

 

[neuroanatomist]

Re: So ready for a move up from 450D - But how big? To 5DMIII / 6D or ...?

So some questions:
- What would you recommend in general in above situation?
- Will the 6D represent a large upgrade from 450D regarding focusing? How large?
- Could a new sensor (long awaited) in a new crop (e.g. 70D) be the 'for me perfect compromise'?
- Wait for announcements - or move now?

Partly, it comes down to what you mean by 'have the budget for quite a move'.

The 6D will represent a modest update in terms of focusing compared to the 450D. For static subjects in low light, it will be better. For moving subjects, not really.

The low light performance of a current FF sensor, in terms of low noise at high ISO, will be a very substantial improvement. A new APS-C camera will be better than your 450D, but still not come close to FF.

You'd need to factor in a replacement for the 10-22mm lens, if you go FF. But that and the 15-85mm lens can be sold for a reasonable amount. The 24-105L on FF will easily beat out the 15-85mm on APS-C. The 17-40L is an economical ultrawide option if you mainly shoot stopped down to f/8 or so.

The 6D is a very nice camera, but honestly, I think if you can swing the 5DIII, it's a better choice.

 

[Skirball]

Re: So ready for a move up from 450D - But how big? To 5DMIII / 6D or ...?

Well, basically you want it all. Sorry, you're going to have to make some compromises.

I'd start with why you're ready to move, what is your 450D not doing for you? Do you struggle with the AF? Because you mention your concerns with the 6D. If the 450D was ok for you you'll have no issue with 6D, other than perhaps getting used to how small the spread is. I can't quantify 'how much better' for you, but in my opinion most the AF bashing on here is unfounded. Unless you routinely shoot quickly moving objects, and I'm not talking about brides walking down isles or even your 4 year old nephew, the 6D works just fine.

Must you go full frame? Of course not, silly question. But if your primary concerns are IQ and low light shooting, then it'd be the smart move. If you're going FF, don't worry about Canon coming out with something new soon, they won't. I have zero faith that the 70D, or even the 7D to be honest, is going to come with any sort of monumental leap in technology for crop sensors IQ or low light sensitivity.

 

[rpt]

Re: So ready for a move up from 450D - But how big? To 5DMIII / 6D or ...?

I went from 300D to 5D3. I love it. I kind of gained "reach" as the cropped 5D3 is 8.6 MPix vs 6 MPix of the 300D.if you go FF with 5D3 or 6D you will loose a bit. However all the rest is great. The other thing is unless you intend to keep the 450D, you will need to get rid of you EF-S lenses...

A few on this forum have switched to 5D3 and 6D and have said that they are happy. May be look up those threads and check out...

I vote 5D3

 

[D.]

Re: So ready for a move up from 450D - But how big? To 5DMIII / 6D or ...?

I upgraded from the 450D to the 5D3 and am happy I have done so. The low light and focusing capability of the 5D3 are excellent. In my opinion, every feature of the 5D3 is a significant upgrade from the 450D. I can't speak to the 6D, but if you go with the 5D3 you will not be disappointed.

 

[Quasimodo]

Re: So ready for a move up from 450D - But how big? To 5DMIII / 6D or ...?

My first new topic here.
I hope for some experienced advice based on my situation.

I am an all-round enthusiastic hobby photographer - doing people, landscape, still-life, animals (many small birds, very little BIF), music, architecture, travel, enter competitions now and then, etc.....
(Currently only stills. May want to take a look at video someday, but not key to me.)

Started out with Canon G5 (which I loved) in 2004.
Moved up to DSLR, EOS 450D = Rebel XSi (even more so) during 2008.
Have been ready for a body-upgrade several times - but seem to always buy some optics instead.

Current line-up (trying to do it in sequence of most used first): (All are Canon EOS)
- 15-85 / 70-200 4.0 IS / 24-105 4.0 / 10-22 / 50 1.4 / 100 macro 2.8 IS

I like DSLR.
I still like the 450D for size, low weight, reach (1.6 factor)

I most of all look for better:
- IQ and Lowlight capability
- Focusing (precision - maybe also more speed), consider AFMA a must have

Would also love:
- Flexible display (still miss that from G5 in many special shooting-situations)
- Wifi (for remote control and shooting)
- Even more reach (so still need for longer glass, I know)
- More effective operation (but would that be touch-screen, joy-stick, or ......?)

... all without having to haul too much weight and size.

I do have budget for quite a move - the most important is to make the right one.

I have followed this site - and other sources - for information about the key candidates regarding specs / features / price-levels etc. But have had no hands-on with any of these. So what I ask for is your advice based on real world experience.

My thoughts and questions:
- Must I go Full Frame (I see a lot of strong arguments for that - and also a few against)
- If FF then I like most of the characteristics of 6D - but focusing is clearly a concern
- I am concerned that the day after my purchase, I will se Canon announce the 'for me perfect compromise'

So some questions:
- What would you recommend in general in above situation?
- Will the 6D represent a large upgrade from 450D regarding focusing? How large?
- Could a new sensor (long awaited) in a new crop (e.g. 70D) be the 'for me perfect compromise'?
- Wait for announcements - or move now?

Look forward to your thoughts.

If you can afford it; 5D3, and if not 6D. Both cameras will open a new world from what you have now

 

[bholliman]

Re: So ready for a move up from 450D - But how big? To 5DMIII / 6D or ...?

Based on the type of photography you do, I think you would be very happy with a 6D. The 5D3 is a better camera, but its advantages over the 6D (AF system, FPS) are primarily a benefit to a sports or wildlife photographer. Of course, if money is no object then buy the 5D3. When I decided to buy a 6D over a 5D3, it was a fairly easy decision. I was able to buy a 6D AND a 135L for less than I would have spent on just the 5D3. I am still very happy with that decision.

The 6D will be a huge upgrade in IQ and low-light performance over your 450D. I owned a 550D previously and find the AF system to definitely better on the 6D. Something that seldom gets mentioned, but is important to me is the viewfinder on the 6D is big and bright compared to the cramped, dark viewfinders on the Rebels.

I own a 7D and 6D and find I use the 7D less and less. I've even been using my 6D for indoor sports recently since I can use 3200/6400 ISO with limited noise and a faster shutter speed. I find the AF to be good enough. I miss a few shots, but the good ones have much better IQ than from the 7D.

 

[DKS]

I went from 350D to 6D. Very happy.

I recently moved from a 350D to a 6D. I felt the 5DMkIII was just too bulky. I only have the 24-105/4 and 50/1.4 but am supremely happy with the 6D. The IQ is stunning and while the 5DMkIII AF is obviously better, I don't consider it to be worth the extra grand, which I am putting towards a 70-200/2.8.

Would you be happy with a 5DMkII if the MkIII were not out? In essence the 6D is the new 5DMkII in a smaller body with GPS & WiFi.

If you had a 5DMkII would you upgrade to a MkIII? Personally I wouldn't, which to my logic means the difference between the 6D and 5DMkIII is not sufficient enough.

DKS.

"Why do I fly? I fly to release my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
Antoine De Saint-Exupery.

 

[RLPhoto]

Re: So ready for a move up from 450D - But how big? To 5DMIII / 6D or ...?

If you jump to FF, You'll have to sell the EFS glass. That is an extra expense that I don't think you need yet.

I think a 7D might give you what you want, it's limit is ISO 3200 with a push to 6400 ISO in my usage. If you downscale the files to 12mp, it will make decent prints. I used my rebel XSI from ISO 100-400 because 800 and 1600 were horrible but the 7D was like night and day.

8FPS and Great AF will allow you to photo stuff only a 5D3 or 1D series cam would be able to do better. keep that in mind.

 

[stipotle]

Re: So ready for a move up from 450D - But how big? To 5DMIII / 6D or ...?

I most of all look for better:
- IQ and Lowlight capability
- Focusing (precision - maybe also more speed), consider AFMA a must have

If these are truly your priorities - AND you have no problem with the cost of the MkIII, I think that solves it.

I think it's easy to under-appreciate the AF on the MkIII until you use it. From a photography standpoint, it makes up for any downsides that you might have with the body.

Of course you have all the other compromises, but it's true that the cropping "reach" will definitely help make up for the 1.6x issue (Neuro can give you the specifics on factual IQ comparisons ESPECIALLY at higher ISOs.

It will be heavier, and no tilt screen obviously, but the ergonomics and operation/customization are fantastic.

Above all - I think that if money is no object, get the best camera. I can't imagine much else I need in a camera other than what's in my 5D mkIII, then you can go back to buying glass with no buyer's remorse.

Great questions and answers all around.

 

[myone]

Re: So ready for a move up from 450D - But how big? To 5DMIII / 6D or ...?

Another important thing to consider, at least to me, is the ergonomic.

For some reasons, I have been having a hard time getting used to the dial on the EOS 6D. It has a "set" and multi-directions dial button within its main dial at the back. It is very frustrating to me as I will be hitting random keys and navigate off menus most of the time. Also, it doesn't have a joystick.

The 5D3 has a more simple rotary dial, best for bigger thumb and a joystick for easy navigation. This is very important to many people who are used to XXD dials before they upgrade.

Good luck with your purchase

 

[hamada]

Re: So ready for a move up from 450D - But how big? To 5DMIII / 6D or ...?

i just stepped up from a 7D (i still have) to a 6D (got it on monday).

like the OT i had a EF-S 10-22mm i sold for a good price.

im very happy with the 6D image quality (table top, portraits, landscape).
definately noticable better then the 7D.
the 5D MK3 focus system is overkill for me and for sports i still have the 7D.
maybe if i had a 400mm f2.8 or 600mm f4 i would buy the 5D MK3 for it´s AF system and BIF.


wifi and gps are a big plus for me.
im a metadata freak and i tagged all my 7D images.
the 6D makes it so much easier.

took some bird photos with a remote setup already.
6D plus a nexus 7 is really fun.
now i can see the liveview and focus when i take photos with a remote setup.
before that it was more like playing roulette.


but im struggling to get a replacement for my EF-S 10-22mm.
a good wideangle landscape lens.

i rented a EF 17-40mm and a EF 16-35mm this week.

the EF 17-40mm border quality is not what i expect (not even closed down to f8-f11).

the EF 16-35mm cost twice as much as the EF-S 10-22mm and the image quality is at best equal. :

i guess i will buy a used standard zoom (EF 24-105) at ebay and buy a new EF 24 2.8 IS for landscape work.
the 24 f2.8 IS seem to have the best image quality of all wide angle lenses i can afford.

some time next year i hope i can afford a 24mm TS or maybe canon will release a really great 12-24mm lens some day.

going FF was definitely a good move for me.

i knew i have to buy good lenses for FF.
but even the 17-40 or 16-35 are not that impressive if you ask me.

i think canon has to improve the EF wideangle lenses.

that said i absolutely love the 6D with my 100mm f2.0 and 70-200 f4.0 IS.

 

[steven kessel]

Re: So ready for a move up from 450D - But how big? To 5DMIII / 6D or ...?

I went from a Rebel T3i to a 7D and then, a few months later, to a 5D iii. Both the 7D and the 5d iii are superior to the Rebel for a lot of reasons. I'd rate the 7D as an extremely good camera and I'd rate the 5d iii as extraordinary. My area of interest is primarily wildlife photography. For that, the lightning fast and extremely accurate autofocus of the 5d iii is a huge asset. I'd never been able to capture birds in flight before purchasing this camera. Now, I can and it's a whole new world for me. The 5d iii has a superior dynamic range to the 7D, that is, it captures both shadows and highlights better than the 7D.

As for full frame vs. crop, well, there are dozens of threads in this forum on the subject. Suffice it to say that I'm able to extract some really good pictures from my 5D iii even when I crop substantially. That's because the 5D iii does an absolutely outstanding job handling noise, much superior to the 7D, in my opinion.

 

[traveller]

Re: So ready for a move up from 450D - But how big? To 5DMIII / 6D or ...?

I can't speak for the 6D, as I've never used it. Having gone from a 450D to a 5D MkIII, all I can say is wow, I was completely blown away! The 5D MkIII is in a totally different league, I didn't realise just how much better it would be until I used it. The improvements I've noticed:

AF - it just doesn't seem to miss, unlike my 450D, which could be pretty unreliable at times (caveat: I've not used third party glass and I don't do too much taxing work with it).

Buffer depth - with the Lexar 1000X cards, you'll feel totally liberated shooting RAW.

Viewfinder - after a while, you'll wonder how you managed to frame anything through the 450D's (no offense intended )

LCD - is a massive improvement

C1 - C3 Custom modes - really useful

Image quality - the first time I loaded a RAW file into ACR, I was astounded by how sharp and vibrant it looked. Normally my 450D files seemed a bit soft and dull, but I knew that they'd look good after a bit of processing. The 5D MkIII's files seem to need so much less work done to them, and yes, you will find yourself using ISO800+ a lot more.

[I know that you will get many of these improvements by upgrading to a 60D or 7D as well, I just wanted to list what I found best about upgrading].

I didn't believe the hype about full frame cameras until I used the 5D MkIII, now my backup 450D rarely comes out of the bag -if I want more reach, then I tend to crop. I'm only giving you my personal experiences and opinions here; it may be that 60D or 7D users wouldn't get quite such a "quantum-leap" impression and maybe you won't either, I'd hate to disappoint.

I've foamed on too long already; if you can afford a 5D MkIII, then just go ahead and buy one; you look like you (mostly) have the glass already. Sell the EF-S lenses and buy a 16-35 or 17-40 depending on your budget/usage, plus perhaps a 1.4x teleconverter to help with the 'reach' issue.

Whatever you decide, I hope you're happy with it.

 

[Haydn1971]

Re: So ready for a move up from 450D - But how big? To 5DMIII / 6D or ...?

I made the step from a 450D to a 6D - it's bigger in the hands and feels much better built, I've been happy with the AF of the 6D, especially with low light and my faster lenses. I sold my 450D and 18-55mm for £250 - Havin owned it over four years, it cost me £50 a year. I also sold my 15-85mm for £400 - that cost me about £70 a year to own, I've a 10-22mm to sell yet, hopefully soon.

I bought the 6D as a split kit, I didn't want the 24-105mm lens, I was then tempted by a second hand 17-40mm, but ended up slapping the cash down for a new 16-35mm f2.8 II, to go with my 50mm and 135mm primes. I plan to buy a 24-70mm f2.8 II in the next 9-18 months, it's a planned upgrade, but I'll probably buy on a whim ;-)

Overall, since upgrading, I've been overwhelmed with the quality of photos I'm getting, a real step change in light gathering ability - I would strongly recommend one extra thing though - buy Lightroom 4 and shoot in raw to get the most from your new purchase regardless of it being a 6D or 5DIII

 

[Mt Spokane Photography]

Re: So ready for a move up from 450D - But how big? To 5DMIII / 6D or ...?

This is not a Rumor, but I'd just sit tight and see what happens with new APS-C models coming out this year. Then you can decide. You have excellent lenses to use with a higher performing APS-C model, but to get the same FOV you are used to, you will need lenses that have a 1.6X increase in focal length, and that is going to involve $$. To see the same FOV as your 70-200, you would need 112- 320mm. A 70-300mmL is close, but smaller aperture, or a 100-400mmL.
Think about what you need to get the same FOV for your birding with your APS-C and budget for a longer telephoto.

 

[cheeseheadsaint]

Re: So ready for a move up from 450D - But how big? To 5DMIII / 6D or ...?

This is a helpful thread for me too! I know every so often I keep posting about upgrading from the XSi but I never end up doing so. Very interested in seeing which one you end up picking! I used to shoot birds in flight but now I do sports/events. I'm definitely looking for a larger buffer to shoot more than 6 raw frames at a time and high iso/low noise.

For me money is an issue but I doubt you want to spend more than you have to either. I'm currently leaning towards 6D despite autofocus features on the 5dmkiii is prolly better suited for an action photographer because either way, the upgrade that you'd be making is still better than the Rebel XSi. and the extra cash saved can go toward lenses and other gadgets. at least that's the approach i'm thinking.

 

[Marine03]

Re: So ready for a move up from 450D - But how big? To 5DMIII / 6D or ...?

Other than possible new exciting sensor tech for APC to lessen the gap with FF, I just upgraded 1 month ago from the 450D to 6D and LOVE IT!!!! I mostly shoot landscape, kids and some weddings and there are enough keepers with the 6D that I couldn't see justifying the 5D3. I could now never go back to APC format.

OOO and gimic or not I use the WIFI feature all the time I love it.

 

[bholliman]

Re: So ready for a move up from 450D - But how big? To 5DMIII / 6D or ...?

For some reasons, I have been having a hard time getting used to the dial on the EOS 6D. It has a "set" and multi-directions dial button within its main dial at the back. It is very frustrating to me as I will be hitting random keys and navigate off menus most of the time. Also, it doesn't have a joystick.

Since I was used to the 7D control set-up, I struggled a little with the lack of a joystick use of the multi-controller on the 6D. But, after several weeks of shooting it became second nature and is as easy to operate as the 7D - its just a matter of becoming familiar with the controls.

Since use my 6D 95% of the time now, I find using the 7D a little more difficult since I'm so used to the 6D controls.

..I just upgraded 1 month ago from the 450D to 6D and LOVE IT!!!! I mostly shoot landscape, kids and some weddings and there are enough keepers with the 6D that I couldn't see justifying the 5D3. I could now never go back to APC format.

+1
I shoot the same things and find the 6D a nearly perfect camera for these uses.

 

[JPAZ]

Re: So ready for a move up from 450D - But how big? To 5DMIII / 6D or ...?

My jump was a bit smaller, from a 50d to a 5diii. I really felt like I was getting pretty good results from the 50d and could change settings at will while taking shots. But, I got tired of the noise!

The cons for the switch: Had to sell my 50d and some glass to afford the new camera and non-EFs lenses I'd need, and those replacement FF lenses cost more than what I had. The new camera and glass definitely is bigger and weighs more. Even though there are many similarities, I am still way at the beginning of a new learning curve moving from crop to Ff and a new camera.

BUT (the pros for the switch), when I "nail" a shot, the IQ, lack of noise and DOF control are so much better than what I had that all the "regrets" fade away. Perhaps, were the 6d around when I made the switch, I' d have considered it. But do really consider FF, then think about focusing and low light that works for you and do it.