Some EOS M System Information [CR2]

[AvTvM]

really funny the constant bashing of Canon EF-M lens lineup. And the constant whimpering for fast primes for a *CROP SENSOR* system. It is not going to happen. Not even Canon is so stupid to make big, fat, expensive lenses for EF-M mount. EF-M lens lineup is pretty much *perfect*, especially now with 18-150 coming and a slightly higher grade EF-M 15-85 in the works (hopefully). All that's missing is a compact EF-M 85/2.4 STM IS.

Fast primes will come, but only if & when Canon launches FF-sensored MILC with new, native, short-flange distance EF-X mount.

 

[Eagle Eye]

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That basically summarizes my use of the M system as well (also, to travel light if space is limited) - and for that, it does the job really well... I can shoot RAW and thus keep my workflow identical to if I'd used any of my 5D cameras...

Next on the list will be that 18-150...I just hope the performance is up to snuff and justifies its high(!) price.
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I suspect that when the full frame mirrorless comes, it's going to be rocking EF lenses. Mirrorless is the future. It's not 100% here yet, but I suspect Canon knows that the future of all ILCs is a mirrorless system. In a few years, new photographers are going to have the option of the iPhone or the ILC, the mirrorless term gone absent the need for distinction. It wouldn't surprise me if the 6D Mark II was mirrorless, but I suspect we're still a few years away from Canon merging the lines.
By the way, I've been using the M5 for the last few days with a Rokinon 50mm and my old EF-M zooms. It's a totally killer camera. Smarter capabilities than my 6D, great low light capability, and very snappy autofocus (not saying all that much in comparison to the 6D, but it is really good). Like Neuro, I pretty much only shoot M these days, unless I'm driving on a photo trip by myself and can lug my L kit. The upgrade from the M2 to the M5 is probably the death knell for my 6D/L zoom kit.

 

[ahsanford]

Not even Canon is so stupid to make big, fat, expensive lenses for EF-M mount. EF-M lens lineup is pretty much *perfect*, especially now with 18-150 coming and a slightly higher grade EF-M 15-85 in the works (hopefully).

1) If you design it expressly for crop, it doesn't need to be so big and fat. See attached. That Sigma 30mm f/1.4 for crop is just about as big as a 35mm f/2 IS USM or 50mm f/1.4 USM. That's not huge at all. Drop it to f/1.8 or f/2 and it will be even smaller.

2) A lineup consisting of 5x and 8x f/6.3 zooms is perfect like a 24-600mm bridge camera is perfect: you can puff up your chest and say 'I've got focal lengths X all the way to Y covered', but you can't generate small DOF, IQ is questionable and you have to love lots of plastic.

Again, I'm not arguing we blow up the EF-M portfolio, I'm arguing we should jazz it up. Canon could drop a couple well-targeted lenses in the $750 neighborhood to go with that shiny new $1,100 camera they just released. Inject some enthusiast energy into the brand, you know?

- A

 

[Loswr]

Like Neuro, I pretty much only shoot M these days, unless I'm driving on a photo trip by myself and can lug my L kit.

Perhaps an overstatement for me. Most of my shots are still with the 1D X, family around the house and locally, typical business trips, etc. The M is mainly for family travel and saving space on short trips.

 

[ahsanford]

Like Neuro, I pretty much only shoot M these days, unless I'm driving on a photo trip by myself and can lug my L kit.

Perhaps an overstatement for me. Most of my shots are still with the 1D X, family around the house and locally, typical business trips, etc. The M is mainly for family travel and saving space on short trips.

+1. Short trips are my unmet need, especially my frequent 48 hour business trips where I don't want to lug a large 5D3 + 28mm f/2.8 IS around. Think: no shooting planned, but hey, I'm in [insert city] and we've got an hour before a meeting for a city walkabout, a random snap out the side of a plane, etc. I've honestly considered opting in to an older EOS M model + the 22mm f/2 pancake just for that very need.

- A

 

[AvTvM]

2) A lineup consisting of 5x and 8x f/6.3 zooms is perfect like a 24-600mm bridge camera is perfect: you can puff up your chest and say 'I've got focal lengths X all the way to Y covered', but you can't generate small DOF, IQ is questionable and you have to love lots of plastic.

using 55-200 @ f/6.3 DOF is more than shallow, even on APS-C sensor. No Problem at all. And yes, we can cover 11mm to 200mm with only 3 small, decent and inexpensive lenses. Thanks to adapter, EF 40/2.8 STM and EF 50/1.8/STM the only CROP lens missing in my bag is a native, compact and decent EF-M 85/2.4 IS STM.

Only 1% market share Fuji retro nerds are willing to buy f/1.2 *crop sensor-only lenses* for a system without future. Canon often acts stupidly, but not even they are that stupid. Their multi-million market research has clearly told them, that me and millions of (potential) EOS M buyers will definitely NOT shell out 800 /€ for a crop-only prime lens. heck, we are not even willing to spend that much money on FF *prime* lenses. We spend a bit more and get ourselves FF-capable f/2.8 zooms for a grand or 2 and are done with it.

 

[privatebydesign]

1) If you design it expressly for crop, it doesn't need to be so big and fat. See attached. That Sigma 30mm f/1.4 for crop is just about as big as a 35mm f/2 IS USM or 50mm f/1.4 USM. That's not huge at all. Drop it to f/1.8 or f/2 and it will be even smaller.

The 35 f2 IS is not a small lens, the 28 f2.8 IS is much much smaller.

 

[Deleted member 7828]

The DSLR will always be my first option, my first choice, especially now that mine are all FF. When I see the quality I'm getting out of these cameras, I don't mind carrying the weight. However, as most of us know, a DSLR isn't always practical on every outing. Therefore I've invested in the M system as the "travel light" option, the "inconspicuous" option and the "no professional cameras allowed" option. I also initially got it as a camera to give to people when I want to get in the shot, but as I mentioned in an earlier post I find I just take the DSLR for my personal pics and hand people my phone instead...

Now, if Canon came out with a fixed lens FF compact camera, much like the RX1R (a camera I've considered in the past) THAT might get me to leave the DSLR at home more frequently...

 

[Deleted member 7828]

1) If you design it expressly for crop, it doesn't need to be so big and fat. See attached. That Sigma 30mm f/1.4 for crop is just about as big as a 35mm f/2 IS USM or 50mm f/1.4 USM. That's not huge at all. Drop it to f/1.8 or f/2 and it will be even smaller.

The 35 f2 IS is not a small lens, the 28 f2.8 IS is much much smaller.

Speaking of the 28mm, I used to pair one with a Rebel SL1 and loved it. Nice little combo and very good IQ.

Now I'm hoping for the EF-M equivalent. Not crazy about the decision to make the 28 Macro an f3.5 instead of 2.8...

 

[AvTvM]

Now I'm hoping for the EF-M equivalent. Not crazy about the decision to make the 28 Macro an f3.5 instead of 2.8...

well, it is a Macro lens. Difference in both light-gathering and DOF 2.8 to 3.5 is negligable for all applications of a 28mm lens. For use as a macro lens even more so. Think about it ...

 

[ahsanford]

1) If you design it expressly for crop, it doesn't need to be so big and fat. See attached. That Sigma 30mm f/1.4 for crop is just about as big as a 35mm f/2 IS USM or 50mm f/1.4 USM. That's not huge at all. Drop it to f/1.8 or f/2 and it will be even smaller.

The 35 f2 IS is not a small lens, the 28 f2.8 IS is much much smaller.

AvTvM made it sound like all f/1.4 lenses are big like the 35L II. The 35mm f/2 IS isn't tiny, but it also isn't large in my book -- I consider a fair 'size price to pay' for what it offers. Canon would do well to find that size/performance inflection point if it wants to keep things small.

- A

 

[AvTvM]

I know, that mirrorless short flange distance lenses can be built very compact.

Fujifilm XR 35/1.4 is not much larger than Canon EF-M 28/3.5 macro. http://j.mp/2hIMmC3
BUT, a hell of a lot more expensive - lowest street price in Germany is currently around € 570 ... ! How will buy such a lens for crop only? 1% market share - Fuji! Economy is simple. Even stupid Canon has understood this with their EF-S lenses. 17-55/2.8 was the absolute max. to get a few buyers, because it is a good and immensely useful constant aperture zoom. They had to replace 10-22 with 11-18 just to get a significantly lower price UWA. Definitely NO GO for fast CROP primes.


What I'd love to see is a compact Canon EOS X1 MILC with FF sensor and (amongst other lenses) a native EF-X 50/1.8 STM for it - same size, same price as the EF lens. If IS is added, charge 50 bucks more. Done, sold!

Until then I will ABSOLUTELY ONLY buy small, decent, inexpensive EF-M lenses for a CROP sensor - preferably zooms and for maximum portability situations a few moderately slow primes. EF-M 22/2 and EF-M 85/2.4 IS STM.

 

[Deleted member 7828]

Now I'm hoping for the EF-M equivalent. Not crazy about the decision to make the 28 Macro an f3.5 instead of 2.8...

well, it is a Macro lens. Difference in both light-gathering and DOF 2.8 to 3.5 is negligable for all applications of a 28mm lens. For use as a macro lens even more so. Think about it ...

For macro use, perhaps...but I was using that SL1/28mm in low-light conditions - flash/dragging shutter, etc. I REALLY appreciated the 2.8 in those circumstances. So, in those situations, YES - losing 2/3 stop would make quite the difference for me. YMMV!

In my opinion, when it comes to crop-sensor cameras, anything slower than 2.8 is a liability when it comes to indoor shooting.

 

[jolyonralph]

There are already plenty of f/2.8 and faster solutions for EF-M if you use standard EF lenses with the EF/EF-M adaptor.

Having said that, a f/2.8 35mm lens would be compact and very very handy. Give me a slightly slower but lighter and shorter lens option for EF-M rather than just replicate what already exists on EF please.

 

[pokerz]

really funny the constant bashing of Canon EF-M lens lineup. And the constant whimpering for fast primes for a *CROP SENSOR* system. It is not going to happen. Not even Canon is so stupid to make big, fat, expensive lenses for EF-M mount. EF-M lens lineup is pretty much *perfect*, especially now with 18-150 coming and a slightly higher grade EF-M 15-85 in the works (hopefully). All that's missing is a compact EF-M 85/2.4 STM IS.

Fast primes will come, but only if & when Canon launches FF-sensored MILC with new, native, short-flange distance EF-X mount.

EFX? what's that, how u confirm it does exist?

 

[AvTvM]

really funny the constant bashing of Canon EF-M lens lineup. And the constant whimpering for fast primes for a *CROP SENSOR* system. It is not going to happen. Not even Canon is so stupid to make big, fat, expensive lenses for EF-M mount. EF-M lens lineup is pretty much *perfect*, especially now with 18-150 coming and a slightly higher grade EF-M 15-85 in the works (hopefully). All that's missing is a compact EF-M 85/2.4 STM IS.

Fast primes will come, but only if & when Canon launches FF-sensored MILC with new, native, short-flange distance EF-X mount.

EFX? what's that, how u confirm it does exist?

"EF-X" is my moniker for an (eventually coming) future Canon lens mount and native lenses for an (eventually coming) future Canon FF-sensored mirrorless camera series. Canon may well decide on some other naming convention. But the products themselves will come. Eventually.