Sony to unveil a 50 MP new A7 body at Photokina?

[Gantz]

Innovation costs and camera gear sales are dropping. Dramatically.

And why should the people upgrade from a 600D to a 700D?
That´s the bread and butter line for Canon.

Not to mention that the sensor performance is reported to drop from the 550D to the 600D.

If i were Rebel owner i rather stick to my old Rebel and invest my money in a smaller m43 model.
Quality for people who only print 10x15 or 13x18 centimeter is the same.

It seems there are not enough new customers and old customers think twice if they pay for minor updates.

Enthusiasts will always buy the latest just to have it.
But even i start to think hard if i need a new Canon camera.

 

[Maiaibing]

If that were to happen and the Samsung NX1 rumors are true Canon may find it hard to create the buzz it is certainly is hoping for with the 7DII at Photokina. Time will tell.

Since an A7 is very likely to be my next camera if the 5DIV does not deliver (or is vaporware this time next year) it'll be interesting to follow and - if true - see how a 50MP FF camera performs in real life.

Just imagine the processing power needed to be able to shoot a decent frame rate...

 

[tomscott]

I don't know why people get so emotional about it.

Competition is a good thing, just because there is a new product out doesn't mean you need it. My 5D impresses me everyday I love shooting with it has great IQ and the files are manageable! The important thing is the clients love the work.

Is a 50mp camera really going to improve your work or make PP/storage a nightmare? Shooting 1500 images at a wedding on the 5DMKIII is 40gb of unprocessed data. Process 350 images at a final size of 250mbs each, add you have a few layers and masks that figure is conservative. So nearly 90gbs plus the back up of the originals is 130gbs. I average 45 weddings a year, that data on the 5DMKIII is just about manageable at 6.5TB especially when you want to have an on and offsite backup to ensure redundancy if the worst should happen. 10TB arrays cost upward of £5000 do any of you guys work for a living? With a 50mp camera add 2/3s more too that so for 15-18TB per year is just too much, just insane especially when most clients want one or two prints at A2 and the rest go into an album where the images barely hit A4.

Like I said competition is a good thing and its getting to the point where Canon have to respond with something, even if its just an announcement of response. That makes me excited because Canon has the best lenses you can buy and the system is very mature and useable, everything is there with a bullet proof back up system through CPS.

I wanted to buy an A7 to give it a try but I couldn't do all my work with the lenses available, you can't even cover all bases atm the lenses are expensive and slow. They should be concentrating on lenses not bodies but bodies sell the system people seem to forget about lenses and that kit lenses will probably resolve about the same MP as a 10 year old 20D.

TBH I just think people are bored and crave new tech, new tech is investment and for pros like myself switching system is a pain not only in cost but also in learning a new system. Canons FF tech is still amazing and if you know how to work it and use light to compliment available light to your advantage you will have no issues, your camera can't do everything. A skilled photographer will make stunning images with any camera they pic up.

Still exciting to see the development of camera tech and I applaud Sony for trying something new! I bought a Nex5N a few years back for a daily and really enjoy shooting with it.

 

[quod]

50 MP, 16 stops of DR. Canon must respond to that!!
:

No, they don't. This is land of the Canon fanboy. Don't you understand that in the world sensors don't matter. They never mattered since Camon had the best sensors. Now the lens line up is the only think that matters. DxoMark says other company's have better lenses? Then DXOMark doesn't matter. This is Canonland and the only thing that matters is our stuff is the best

Awesome post! Captures these boards perfectly.

 

[Gantz]

.

Is a 50mp camera really going to improve your work

As you kind of wrote yourself that´s not the question.

You wrote you are happy with the 5D output.
Do you think the amateur gear freak in this forum need a 1DX for their Flickr images?
They could stop photographing tomorrow and start knitting.
They don´t NEED better gear.

Even most PRO, who want better gear would (still) do absolutely fine with a 5D MKII or 1Ds when they know their job.

Those PROS who need billboard size prints will buy MF.
They don´t talk for days on internet forums about DR and MP.

But when Canon wants my money, wants me to spend money for a new camera i don´t really need ..... i expect more then what it offers today.

 

[infared]

Japanese rumors: As i heard from my Japanese girlfriends, the 50MP Sony is not the highlight. The highlight is, that sony is working on an curved sensor. This sensor could possibly be an little revolution on the sensor market. The image quality of the edges and non-center areas would be dramatically better, CAs and other optical problem would be reduced. And optically this curved sensor would rise the resolution in the edge areas.
Sony - (rumored!) - is working on new lenses that could be optimized on this new sensor. The lenses would be a lot cheaper to be produced (abberation correction would be not so difficult).
Nikon is interested in this technology too.

And both can sell a new line of lenses which is incompatible with the old ones ... I don't like that idea too much. Have no money printing machine and are not interested to use too many incompatible equipment or lug it around.

KEEP PRINTING!!! You will need a new supercharged double-quad tower computer to crunch those files in post!!! LOL!
:'( :'( :'(

 

[tomscott]

.

Is a 50mp camera really going to improve your work

As you kind of wrote yourself that´s not the question.

You wrote you are happy with the 5D output.
Do you think the amateur gear freak in this forum need a 1DX for their Flickr images?
They could stop photographing tomorrow and start knitting.
They don´t NEED better gear.

Even most PRO, who want better gear would (still) do absolutely fine with a 5D MKII or 1Ds when they know their job.

Those PROS who need billboard size prints will buy MF.
They don´t talk for days on internet forums about DR and MP.

But when Canon wants my money, wants me to spend money for a new camera i don´t really need ..... i expect more then what it offers today.

It does matter, because the sensor of the camera is only one part of the mix. You have to think about the costs to store data safely and efficiently, not only that have a machine that can deal with loading the images quickly for efficient workflow for PP. The outlay cost of the lenses and camera being probably 3-8k depending on what you buy for the sony system but and lack of lenses currently means a lower outlay, then 10-15k on a rig and storage solution that guarantees that safety + another storage solution off site, then continuous cost to upgrade memory burning through 15TB a year gets costly. As a pro these costs concern me and people forgot about the bigger picture. Those hidden costs are double the outlay for the new gear. But its maybe because your shooting habits differ from mine and you don't have to have that safety net.

 

[mb66energy]

I don't know why people get so emotional about it.

[...]

TBH I just think people are bored and crave new tech, new tech is investment and for pros like myself switching system is a pain not only in cost but also in learning a new system. Canons FF tech is still amazing and if you know how to work it and use light to compliment available light to your advantage you will have no issues, your camera can't do everything. A skilled photographer will make stunning images with any camera they pic up.

[...]

I am no pro photographer and just for me switching a TOOL is real pain. Because not shooting 8 hrs per day I need LONGER than a pro like you to know my equipments capabilities. It just makes sense to me to NOT to change gear year after year.

About "bored and crave new tech": Hits the nail on its head. Going out to take photographs isn't boring with so called inferior equipment (EOS M, 600D) depending on the subject/photographic style. Very often I crave for (1) more time and (2) better weather/light - at the same time!

 

[moreorless]

The problems I think Sony would have is that firstly I'm not sure theres massive demand for resolution above the existing 36 MP and secondly its questionable how there current(and future) FE lens lineup would perform on such a camera as there are already serious issues with the wider lenses with 24/36 MP.

Honestly I'm starting to think that Sony might be in panic mode with the threat of the camera(not sensor) division being shutdown hanging over their heads such is the rate of new releases.

 

[Gantz]

But its maybe because your shooting habits differ from mine and you don't have to have that safety net.

2 TB drives cost 70 euro, that is less what i have spend in a month for film.
harddrive space should not be a problem, especially not for a working pro.

i backup to 4 harddrives for each of the 3 storage drives in my PC (automatically to a NAS and a second PC).
then i have a sharkoon docking station to do extra backups to harddisks i store offline.

harddrive cost is nothing i worry about... as i have not worried about film cost.

processing power... well when i do the surface blur filter i will sure hate a 50 MP file.
but then, i keep my systems up to date.

but of course when someone spends 1000$ on a tripod, or 2000$ on a lens but still works with a 3 year old celeron, he should think about upgrading his PC too.
at least when he wants to edit 30+ MP files.

and let´s not forget, MF owners have to deal with such kind of data for a while.

 

[mb66energy]

The problems I think Sony would have is that firstly I'm not sure theres massive demand for resolution above the existing 36 MP and secondly its questionable how there current(and future) FE lens lineup would perform on such a camera as there are already serious issues with the wider lenses with 24/36 MP.

Honestly I'm starting to think that Sony might be in panic mode with the threat of the camera(not sensor) division being shutdown hanging over their heads such is the rate of new releases.

In terms of real demand for photographic work/photographic expression : I totally agree.

But for boosting around "I can 50 MPixel" (for 4x6" prints for the family album) it is well suited and this might be a personal demand to own something with the hightest number availble. Same thing with hp of cars or sizes of houses ...

 

[ChristopherMarkPerez]

What you say about Canon's FF tech being amazing remains true to me too. My 5D MkII is going on six!!! years old and it still stuns me. Large prints. Small prints. Published images. Everything. It's an image making machine.

If you don't have an idea nor a clue of what you want to say in an image, the camera is incapable of helping _create_. The task of creativity is left to the brain behind the eye behind the eyepiece.

Flipped around, I agree with you that a good artist can use just about anything. Give a good painter a brush, just about any old brush, and they'll figure out how to get the most out of it.

For all the rest, I'm left feeling that comments, critics, and complaints about how much better one company is doing over another is just a cover for the lack of creativity. Afterall, if you were cranking out fabulous images you might not have time to complain. You'd be too busy. Cameras are very rarely the limiting factor in image creation.

Which leads me to my maxims that I've used for years -

My tripod is the sharpest lens I own.

It's what's behind the eye-piece that counts.

Having a lens is many times better than not having a lens, except in the cases of a pinhole or a zone-plate.

I don't know why people get so emotional about it...

... TBH I just think people are bored and crave new tech, new tech is investment and for pros like myself switching system is a pain not only in cost but also in learning a new system. Canons FF tech is still amazing and if you know how to work it and use light to compliment available light to your advantage you will have no issues, your camera can't do everything. A skilled photographer will make stunning images with any camera they pic up.

Still exciting to see the development of camera tech and I applaud Sony for trying something new! I bought a Nex5N a few years back for a daily and really enjoy shooting with it.

 

[Gantz]

The problems I think Sony would have is that firstly I'm not sure theres massive demand for resolution above the existing 36 MP and secondly its questionable how there current(and future) FE lens lineup would perform on such a camera as there are already serious issues with the wider lenses with 24/36 MP.

Honestly I'm starting to think that Sony might be in panic mode with the threat of the camera(not sensor) division being shutdown hanging over their heads such is the rate of new releases.

In terms of real demand for photographic work/photographic expression : I totally agree.

But for boosting around "I can 50 MPixel" (for 4x6" prints for the family album) it is well suited and this might be a personal demand to own something with the hightest number availble. Same thing with hp of cars or sizes of houses ...

For me it hasn´t to be 50MP.
28-32 MP and cleaner shadow noise and better DR is fine for me.

4K video, to extract still frames from video.

Better implementation of WIFI and *** (easier to setup, less battery drain).
WIFI in the 6D is catastrophic.

I am a tech savy PC user since 1990.
I build my own PC and i have a LAN (WLAN) with 6 systems at home.
So im not a dummy when it comes to WIFI.

And i have to say the 6D WIFI setup is not intuitively accessible for most people.
I know 6D user who tried it once and never touched it again.

 

[Lawliet]

You have to think about the costs to store data safely and efficiently, not only that have a machine that can deal with loading the images quickly for efficient workflow for PP.

At the same time factor in the time it costs to do the cleanup necessary to match the results of competing data sources. Considering reasonable rates thats the biggest factor in the equation for me.

 

[RLPhoto]

That would make me buy an a7. Really? 50mp? This is madness...

Not too mad I think: Just the evergreen 18 MPix APS-sensors of canon will result in a roughly 50 MPix sensor if expanded to 24x36mm.

I dream about a 48 MPix sensor which can used to produce 12 MPix images where each final image pixel is calculated from a RGGB sensor pixel quadruplet in camera or during post processing.

Just my more conservative lenses like 2.8 24, 2.8 40, 2.0 100 or 2.8 100 Macro would profit from both, the full resolution or the quarter resolution mode!

Might be an option to replace the EOS M and still use Canon EF and FD lenses or a Rodagon 5.6 120mm with FD bellows.

The lenses will have issues resolving that many MP across the frame. They already do on the d800s, let alone a 50mp sensor.

 

[ChristopherMarkPerez]

Really?

The following is the physics (taken from an article I wrote years ago) -

This presents the theoretic resolving power of an ideal lens where the light's
wavelength is 589.3mu (green).


Tangential lines/mm
f-number Angular distance from axis (in degrees)
0 10 25
1 1391 1329 1035
2 695 665 518
4 348 332 259
5.6 246 235 183
8 174 166 130
11 123 117 92 <--- approx. limits of film/sensor resolution
16 87 83 65
22 61 59 46
32 43 41 32
45 31 29 23
64 22 21 16

Radial lines/mm
f-number Angular distance from axis (in degrees)
0 10 25
1 1391 1370 1260
2 695 685 630
4 348 343 315
5.6 246 243 223
8 174 171 158
11 123 121 111 <--- approx. limits of film/sensor resolution

16 87 86 79
22 61 61 56
32 43 43 39
45 31 30 28
64 22 21 20

I realize we are not dealing with "ideal" lenses, but... in my several decades of looking at this question, it's ALWAYS come down to the film or sensor being the limiting factor for resolution. Period.

In the face of new evidence I'd be happy to change my understanding and position on the topic. Until then, current lenses are likely more than sufficient for 50mp sensors.

The lenses will have issues resolving that many MP across the frame. They already do on the d800s, let alone a 50mp sensor.

 

[Lawliet]

In the face of new evidence I'd be happy to change my understanding and position on the topic. Until then, current lenses are likely more than sufficient for 50mp sensors.

Also factor in that your average sensor today doesn't record color at its full resolution. Calculating the max. resolution for a monochromatic image would net you the number of RGGB-groups you want on your sensor. 8)

 

[RLPhoto]

Really?

The following is the physics (taken from an article I wrote years ago) -

This presents the theoretic resolving power of an ideal lens where the light's
wavelength is 589.3mu (green).


Tangential lines/mm
f-number Angular distance from axis (in degrees)
0 10 25
1 1391 1329 1035
2 695 665 518
4 348 332 259
5.6 246 235 183
8 174 166 130
11 123 117 92 <--- approx. limits of film/sensor resolution
16 87 83 65
22 61 59 46
32 43 41 32
45 31 29 23
64 22 21 16

Radial lines/mm
f-number Angular distance from axis (in degrees)
0 10 25
1 1391 1370 1260
2 695 685 630
4 348 343 315
5.6 246 243 223
8 174 171 158
11 123 121 111 <--- approx. limits of film/sensor resolution

16 87 86 79
22 61 61 56
32 43 43 39
45 31 30 28
64 22 21 20

I realize we are not dealing with "ideal" lenses, but... in my several decades of looking at this question, it's ALWAYS come down to the film or sensor being the limiting factor for resolution. Period.

In the face of new evidence I'd be happy to change my understanding and position on the topic. Until then, current lenses are likely more than sufficient for 50mp sensors.

The lenses will have issues resolving that many MP across the frame. They already do on the d800s, let alone a 50mp sensor.

That's all fine and dandy but in the Real world, hardly of any use. Only a handful of lenses actually can resolve the details of a 36mp sensor. Forget about a 50mp sensor on that Sony glass.

 

[rs]

The problems I think Sony would have is that firstly I'm not sure theres massive demand for resolution above the existing 36 MP and secondly its questionable how there current(and future) FE lens lineup would perform on such a camera as there are already serious issues with the wider lenses with 24/36 MP.

Honestly I'm starting to think that Sony might be in panic mode with the threat of the camera(not sensor) division being shutdown hanging over their heads such is the rate of new releases.

In terms of real demand for photographic work/photographic expression : I totally agree.

But for boosting around "I can 50 MPixel" (for 4x6" prints for the family album) it is well suited and this might be a personal demand to own something with the hightest number availble. Same thing with hp of cars or sizes of houses ...

The design of DSLR's, like bicycles, washing machines and pens, has already gone through various stages of development, reaching a point where almost any reasonably priced version is capable of doing 95% of what 95% of users could want. Advances from here, while welcome, are largely gimmicks for people who want every feature or the latest product. More MP, more dynamic range, higher burst rates, more intelligent AF and metering are just nice to have's which most users will never really need. A few will, many will want, but it is largely just a way of generating sales.

 

[Lawliet]

That's all fine and dandy but in the Real world, hardly of any use. Only a handful of lenses actually can resolve the details of a 36mp sensor. Forget about a 50mp sensor on that Sony glass.

You're trying to fit an analog dimension in a boolean descriptor, that doesn't work that well. Even if we don't think about the implications of demosaicing or external influences like operator error.

Not that 36 and 50 are that much of a difference, the D810 gained almost that much due to its improved mirror&shutter action. A new sensor would be a good opportunity to incorporate an EFC...instant gain.