The Canon EOS 6D Mark II Mentioned [CR1]

For a 6D2,

I require:

1. Dual card slots (don't care which kind or mix and match).


1/8000 shutter, 1/200 Sync, 5fps, Anti-Flicker, Custom File Names and several other little things would be very welcome, but not a deal breaker. On the other hand, not getting these things or most of them would be kind of shameful to Canon as it shows they are not allowing this line to progress even slightly with what are considered to be fairly normal or standard features these days.

It would be hard to imagine Canon getting away with the same AF system again. It would be a huge let down and a point for ridicule in the industry. Therefore, I imagine it will probably get something along the lines of the 70D like others have speculated. I've speculated they won't go as far as to give the 61 point system from the 5D3 as to not get too close to a 5D4 system. Although, even if the 5D4 is a big leap in AF intelligence and speed - I still doubt 61 is happening on the 6D2 because it's still too good of a system. Either way, the 19 point system is a token upgrade - but still at least an upgrade. In an ideal world, Canon should create a new system for it - better than the 19 point, but maybe not quite the 61.


In Canon's brain, dual card slots is a "pro" feature. We know it, they know it. Data integrity is key. With two slots, the odds of a bad card ruining a segment of a critical photoshoot or wedding becomes almost nil. Canon knows this, so I think they will continue to hold out on that and still offer the same old single SD slot. While a single slot was the norm prior to dual slots, it was out of necessity. Now that dual slots exist, dual slot becomes the necessity. At this point in time, if you don't cough up the cash for a camera with two slots - you can't blame the lack of technology for failing to protect your images. It is now on you. Whether your client knows this or not, who cares. You know it. This is the wedge.

Canon doesn't want pros getting off easy and cheap with the 6D. They want to deter them via risk in losing photos. And thus, by crippling the camera - they push pros up to the 5D series. This of course is stupid, because only a few pros will do this - most will still buy the 5D series for the obvious advantages it has. And for those who "cheap out" with a 6D2, great for Canon anyway. They are keeping pros within the Canon system. In my view, that is better than having them run off to Nikon which IS happening. I don't understand the logic in pressuring the lower budget pro market for upsell? Why make the "barrier to entry" steeper for people starting out in the career of photography? These are the very people they should be catering to.

And I'll rant about it again. Only Canon does this bullcrap. Nikon has no issues putting 2 slots on the 7100 / 7200, 610, 750 ... Nikon isn't trying to force their users to the D810 by crippling the 610 with a single slot. What is a better camera for a wedding? D610 or 6D? Clearly the D610 - better AF, 2 slots. Faster sync. The current 6D is an enthusiasts camera. For portraits, landscapes etcetera. But why give up that segment of the market to Nikon?

And the body size is no excuse for lack of 2nd slot. The D7100 is small and has 2 slots.


If Canon puts 2 slots on this camera, I could care less what other features it has - I'm buying.

If Canon keeps it a 1 slot camera, they can keep it. I'm not rewarding this kind of behavior by buying it.
 
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K said:
The current 6D is an enthusiasts camera. For portraits, landscapes etcetera.
I agree. Which is why I find it so silly that they dont just embrace that and give it enthusiast features. Like the articulating screen. It's not like the 6D is weather-sealed and the screen would compromise that.

And for Canon, they may well get a lot of people moving from the 70D to 6D (and thus buying more expensive lenses) for the image quality boost.
 
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K said:
For a 6D2,

I require:

1. Dual card slots (don't care which kind or mix and match).

1/8000 shutter, 1/200 Sync, 5fps, Anti-Flicker, Custom File Names and several other little things would be very welcome, but not a deal breaker. On the other hand, not getting these things or most of them would be kind of shameful to Canon as it shows they are not allowing this line to progress even slightly with what are considered to be fairly normal or standard features these days.

.....

If Canon keeps it a 1 slot camera, they can keep it. I'm not rewarding this kind of behavior by buying it.

The 6D2 isn't what you require. What you require is a 5D3 and/or 7D2.
 
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paulc said:
riker said:
There should obviously be a small and light fullframe body and the 6D is an obvious choice.

But it should be MUCH smaller and lighter. NOT slightly.

I'd be completely fine with an SL1 with a full frame sensor.

Yeh, me too. It wouldn't be my only camera, but I would love to have such a camera. The 6D is Canon's "small" full frame. I'm hoping the 6D2 will be even smaller. There will be other cameras for people who want big cameras with all of the big camera features (namely, the 5D series and the 1D series).
 
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preppyak said:
K said:
The current 6D is an enthusiasts camera. For portraits, landscapes etcetera.
I agree. Which is why I find it so silly that they dont just embrace that and give it enthusiast features. Like the articulating screen. It's not like the 6D is weather-sealed and the screen would compromise that.

And for Canon, they may well get a lot of people moving from the 70D to 6D (and thus buying more expensive lenses) for the image quality boost.


That's one angle for sure. But a very different approach. For me, Canon doesn't have a proper entry level "pro" camera. They made sure of that by giving the 6D an old AF system and one card slot.

Rather than use the 6D to entice crop shooters to move up, they should instead attract folks who can't afford the 5D series but want in on the game.

I could be very, very wrong - but I see an entry level pro camera being more successful than an entry level FF camera for crop shooters. My experience with crop shooters is the vast majority are true enthusiasts, and they LOVE the IQ their crop sensors produces and they tend to be staunch defenders that APS-C is perfectly fine. That and they don't want to start buying all new lenses.

In other words, crop shooters have a very high degree of satisfaction with their cameras and the IQ they achieve. 70D owners are prime example of this.

The entry level PRO needs low light performance. It isn't that most really care about more depth of field, with the exception of some really hard core portrait shooters using insanely fast primes. The FF camera for most event shooters, which are also the majority of pro shooters, is all about better ISO, low noise for low light scenarios. To get usable shots when the lighting is awful, which is the case at many events.

Make an APS-C camera with better ISO performance than FF, and I'll never buy a FF again. But we know that sensor tech doesn't allow this to happen in any kind of apples to apples comparison.
 
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K said:
That's one angle for sure. But a very different approach. For me, Canon doesn't have a proper entry level "pro" camera. They made sure of that by giving the 6D an old AF system and one card slot.

"Entry level pro camera" is a bit of an oxymoron. It sounds like you want pro features for a consumer price.

The 6D's center point AF is fantastic for events (weddings, etc.). You can call it "old" but it's spec'd for lower light than any of their older cameras.
 
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paulc said:
riker said:
There should obviously be a small and light fullframe body and the 6D is an obvious choice.

But it should be MUCH smaller and lighter. NOT slightly.

I'd be completely fine with an SL1 with a full frame sensor.

I'd be more than fine with a full frame SL1, it would be ideal.

I want the body on the back of my 400f5.6 to be as small as possible so that I can carry it in various packs and pouches without removing it, it's also nicely balanced with a lightweight body. The T3 still lets me carry the whole thing in a pouch on the side of my backpack, when I tried using the 5D2 that sort of thing was nearly impossible.

Actually as far as I'm concerned I'm primarily holding the lens, if they could make an endcap with a sensor and let me use it like a telescope that would be even better.
 
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zlatko said:
K said:
That's one angle for sure. But a very different approach. For me, Canon doesn't have a proper entry level "pro" camera. They made sure of that by giving the 6D an old AF system and one card slot.

"Entry level pro camera" is a bit of an oxymoron. It sounds like you want pro features for a consumer price.

The 6D's center point AF is fantastic for events (weddings, etc.). You can call it "old" but it's spec'd for lower light than any of their older cameras.


How do you figure? Entry level doesn't mean $600 Rebel.

At release, the 5D4 is likely to be around $3,800. We all know the 1D series will always be up there high.

If the 5D is Canon's "entry level" for Pro gear, then that is unfortunate, as they have surrendered a whole segment of the market place to Nikon. Because Nikon is offering PRO features and quality in the D610 and D750 for under $2,100!!!!!

It would make sense to have a Pro capable camera with Pro like features in the $2200 range. Or even $2500. That's a big savings and big step down in price bracket from the nearly $4,000 5D cameras. At even $2500, that is an $1800 savings from the 5DS. $1800 is not spare change for anyone doing photography. That is another high quality camera body. Or another fast pro lens. Or a profoto strobe...you get the idea.

This camera should be capable, but of course - not a market place threat to the 5D. This is why 61point AF would be unlikely. But 11 points and a single slot? C'mon Canon - don't tell me you're that insecure or that intent on pushing folks up a level at the expense of many others simply dropping the platform. My complete and total speculation is that for every one person they move up to a 5D, 2 or 3 either stay lower end or move on to another platform. This is a waste, because Canon could bump up a lot of people into the medium range.

Figure this...

A Canon 6D2 with at least 19AF points and 2 card slots could be a decent wedding camera. Something a pro could get by using without any issue. At around $2000 - $2200, it would leave enough money left over to buy a whole 7D Mark II compared to the 5DS/4.

6D2 + 7D2 is better than having a single 5D4. With a proper 6D2, Canon can keep (for that amount of money) more people in the system. And for those who can't spend that much and go single camera, they at least have a pro-ish camera to work with. Some may go with a 6D2 and maybe a 70D or Rebel as backup body. Either way, they either keep the photographer, or they sell 2 bodies instead of one.

The pros who can afford, will get the 5D4 regardless. The more successful will buy 2 of them.

What can alter this assessment? The 5D4 comes in at $3300 or less. Doubtful. Right now is the perfect time for pros to buy Canon gear. Pick up cheap $2K 5D3 and a 7D2 makes a great combo for any event or situation.

I suppose that I'm not only arguing in favor of a more Pro-ish 6D for entry Pro use - but also against the steep pricing of Canon bodies.

Right now, just under $2K for D750 at a major online authorized retailer. Do not tell me the D750 isn't a serious camera with great features. It is very comparable to the 5D3.
 
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Why are people so obsessed about having a lighter battery? Do you guys realize the battery in a 5D Mark iii weighs under 80 grams?? The 6D itself weighs about 700gm. The battery is close to being only 10% of the weight of the camera. And guess what, when they reduce the battery size and weight, it's not going to shrink down to 0. It won't even be as little as half. But let's say half for comparison's sake. You're talking about a realistically imperceptible difference in weight when you factor in that you will have a lens mounted on the camera.

Me personally, I'll take the extra 20gm of weight in order to get a bunch more shots.
 
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SoullessPolack said:
Why are people so obsessed about having a lighter battery? Do you guys realize the battery in a 5D Mark iii weighs under 80 grams?? The 6D itself weighs about 700gm. The battery is close to being only 10% of the weight of the camera. And guess what, when they reduce the battery size and weight, it's not going to shrink down to 0. It won't even be as little as half. But let's say half for comparison's sake. You're talking about a realistically imperceptible difference in weight when you factor in that you will have a lens mounted on the camera.

Me personally, I'll take the extra 20gm of weight in order to get a bunch more shots.


Great post! Very true. There's really no benefit for weight savings.

My interpretation is SPACE savings. Which indicates they are going for a smaller body. That is unfortunate, as the 6D is a great size. It is quite a bit smaller and lighter than the 5D3. But it isn't toyish small like the Rebels.

Smaller means they will likely change the controls towards more consumerish type controls. Less buttons on top, more on the back in a crowded fashion. One can look at existing Canon bodies that are smaller and their controls layout.

Who is it they are trying to appeal to? It must be the hard core travel enthusiast. The person who wants FF IQ in a smaller package for travel. Now to me, that is an oxymoron. Since to realize the full potential, one will need pro level glass. And none of the pro level glass is light or small. What sense does it make to save a few grams on the body if one is going to lug around huge pro optics?

Put some crappy travel lens on it, you just wasted the IQ of the camera. Better off with an APS-C.


Right now, the 5D3 is in a similar price bracket as the D750, and they are both very similarly featured cameras, each having some advantages over the other. But the 5D3 is going to be replaced and not exist anymore at some point. What is it that Canon will have to then compete in the $2,000 - $2,500 realm?

My hope is they beef up the 6D for that role. If not, there will be a very consumer 6D2 - and then a huge leap in price to the 5D4. Not just huge leap in price, but in functions and features too.

The worst of all worlds will be if Canon puts out a neutered, crippled, consumerish 6D2 AND prices it in the $2,000 - $2,500 range. That will be a joke. But I wouldn't put it past them.
 
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Recapping for the TL/DR crowd, a summary of this thread:

I want it lighter.

I want more AF points

I want it 'more pro'.

I want it smaller.

I want dual-card slots.

I find this thread, this market segment, and this user-base to be spectacularly fragmented, and that's not necessarily a bad thing. But Canon needs to intelligently chart a path forward in this (relatively chaotic) market. Consider: the 6D's price has absolutely plummeted since it's unveiling, which generally means they overshot on demand and/or underdelivered on product/features. People laughed at me when I said that the 7D2 would cost more than the 6D, and yet here we are.

Canon needs to decide if it will continue to maintain such a vast gulf in price and features between the 6D and 5D models, or if it will pull a Sony / Nikon move and build a good / better / best tiered approach. Canon has no Nikon D750 (part budget / part pro) sort of FF rig, and that seems to be the screaming need here.

So forget the "I wants" for a moment, let's put our Canon Corporate hats for a second and ask "What is our market segmentation going to be?" How about:

  • 6D2: Go smaller/lighter/simpler, embrace plastic (build quality like a 70D maybe), keep MP where it is, give it a damn pop-up flash, and keep the asking in the $1500 neighborhood. Wonderful sensor, limited functionality and feature set, great price. Sell this to enthusiasts.

  • "5.5"D (let's not start a sidebar on naming, this is just a strawman for conversation): Give it the proper AF system of the 5D3, pump up the MP to 24-28 or so and a few more pro bells and whistles (better weather sealing, 1/8000 shutter, 1-2 C modes on the dial, f/8 AF center point for T/C use, etc.), and charge $2000-2500 for it. Sell it to price-conscious professionals and well-heeled enthusiasts.

  • 5D4 / 5DS / 5Dc etc. These are your ~ $3500 no compromise rigs, likely specialized for "general all-purpose use" (5D4), max detail (5DS) and video (5Dc). Every spec is top end other than the super duper stuff they save for the 1D series.

- A
 
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bluemoon said:
what about leaving the 5DIII in production at $2k and moving the 6DII to Rebel line?
This would allow for a entry level FF and great price and a pro body for starting professionals.

pierre

Love it. But it's great for us and bad for Canon, so it will never happen. Unlike in lenses (where there is a much longer lifecycle and you can have old/new versions co-exist), bodies aren't like that.

Canon puts out a new model of body and then has a firesale to burn down inventory of the old model to keep the new model's price higher for a longer period of time. They are doing this right now with the 7D1 and they will certainly do it to the 6D1 when the 6D2 comes out.

One thing you hit on will happen, though -- the 5D3 will not be replaced and given away as quickly b/c the 5DS models are not a like-for-like replacement. We'll need testing to know this for sure, but in low light, I expect the 5D3 to outperform the 5DS rigs. So I see the 5D3 not going on a firesale until the 5D4 comes out, which one would assume will more roundly and comprehensively outperforms the 5D3.

- A
 
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bluemoon said:
what about leaving the 5DIII in production at $2k and moving the 6DII to Rebel line?
This would allow for a entry level FF and great price and a pro body for starting professionals.

pierre


A few months after 5D4 and 6D2 release, (used) 5D3 will cost less than 2k and (used) 6D less than 1k. Two good opportunities for starting professionals (or people wanting a crop and a FF body).
 
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