The Canon EOS R5 Mark II coming in Q2, 2023? [CR2]

Antono Refa

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Mar 26, 2014
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Seriously, my old MacBook with an Intel processor was really slow with the new Topaz and other software but my MacBook Air with an M2 is blisteringly fast, and I haven't a clue how fast PCs are.
I would be surprised if Topaz & co don't have identical source code compiled for the different platforms, producing different results. As for speed, I haven't seen tests running on similar* hardware, so I don't know.

* Say same price, or hardware matching in benchmark results. I suspect much of the performance difference is due to integration, so Intel and AMD (whose chiplets are similar to Apple's integration) might try closing the gap going the same route as Apple.
 
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entoman

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May 8, 2015
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When you line skip, the still files end up having a weird aspect ratio ie 3:1 vs 3:2 so you need to drop/bin alternative horizontal pixels as well to bring it back to 3:2. Similar process for video formats.

This is what I was thinking about when I started this discussion.

So forgive my lazy maths, but what would the resulting resolutions be, with line skipping and binning of alternate horizontal pixels to keep the same aspect ratio, on a 61MP sensor (or on a 90MP sensor, which is what I personally think the R5ii/R5s will have?

And my understanding is that this has to happen at the conclusion of the readout, so do you think it's feasible for (slow) burst shooting, or only for single shot, if at all?
 
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entoman

wildlife photography
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Typical. I just bought an R5 Over the summer. ughhh
Great choice, nothing to regret! It'll be another year before the successor hits the stores, and another 6 months after that if you wait for firmware to fix the inevitable early bugs. And it'll cost 20% more than the R5, and most likely the additional features will be ones that you don't really need anyway. Enjoy your R5.
 
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cayenne

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Yes, I meant bracketing, not compositing, sorry for the confusion. The R3, R7, R10 and R6II can do in-camera compositing to give you a ready-to-print JPEG. The RP, R5, R6 and M6II can only do the bracketing. And as @neuroanatomist pointed out in a differend thread: the R3 can actually use flash in that mode, all the others can't since it's electronic shutter only and their readout speed is too slow to capture the flash.
I guess I don't get it.
We have these great cameras and sensors....combined with state of the art lenses.

Why is anyone ever doing any workflow less than RAW? Why on earth would you want the camera to focus stack and prepare a jpg of a picture you take....rather than import the files to your "developing" app of choice where you can do RAW manipulations before you stack them and have a superior image result?

I suppose I can understand some pro workflow that has to get say, sports images in quick....to quick publish, but likely those are only going to be published to low end resolution views like social media, newspapers or online equivalent...

But for real images....why?

cayenne
 
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scyrene

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I guess I don't get it.
We have these great cameras and sensors....combined with state of the art lenses.

Why is anyone ever doing any workflow less than RAW? Why on earth would you want the camera to focus stack and prepare a jpg of a picture you take....rather than import the files to your "developing" app of choice where you can do RAW manipulations before you stack them and have a superior image result?

I suppose I can understand some pro workflow that has to get say, sports images in quick....to quick publish, but likely those are only going to be published to low end resolution views like social media, newspapers or online equivalent...

But for real images....why?

cayenne
In my case, my computer died a couple of years ago and I can't afford to (or at least justify the expense of) replac(e/ing) it. From what I can tell, there are no focus stacking/depth compositing apps for mobile, so it would help me a lot if the camera could do it for me.
 
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David - Sydney

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This is what I was thinking about when I started this discussion.

So forgive my lazy maths, but what would the resulting resolutions be, with line skipping and binning of alternate horizontal pixels to keep the same aspect ratio, on a 61MP sensor (or on a 90MP sensor, which is what I personally think the R5ii/R5s will have?

And my understanding is that this has to happen at the conclusion of the readout, so do you think it's feasible for (slow) burst shooting, or only for single shot, if at all?
60mp @3:2 aspect will be ~9600x6400.
It can't do 10k as the only "standard" aspect ratio for 10k is ~21:9 ie 10240 × 4320 which would require a 70mp sensor (10240x6830).
Note that the vertical rows are the same for 8k so 10k is just more "widescreen"
Pixel binning of 4 in 1 would be 4800x3200 (15mp 3:2 aspect). ~4.8k video
Pixel binning of 9 in 1 would be 3200x2130 (7mp 3:2 aspect). ~3k video
4k/2k standard video would need cropping (field of view change) or oversampling from the full width.

Line skipping would be the same for video if the full sensor width is retained. 4k video would require a horizontal crop of ~800 pixels so the field of view will change.

For stills, there is no benefit for line skipping.... the final image is actually worse in many ways. Pixel binning can provide some benefits in low light.

Oversampling was rarely used in the past as processing power was limited. That is not the case today with thermal management being the limiting issue.
Buffer depth is dependent on the buffer memory capacity, the size of the files and card write speeds. The smaller the files, the deeper the buffer with all other things being equal.
Smaller files due to compression algorithms (processing power needed) to your favourite format - jpg/HEIF/cRAW etc.
Dual pixel readout is double the RAW file size but I haven't seen any useful features for this option.
 
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David - Sydney

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So if this is a 61MP camera, by my reckoning that'd be about 9600 pixels across. So I guess that means that 8K would be cropped or subject to either binning or oversampling?
Standard 8k video (DCI/UHD) would need to be cropped (~800 horizontal pixels) with field of view change or oversampled from the full sensor width

Or would they maybe go with 10K, which would match the 9600-pixels-across spec?
10k video is 10240 × 4320 (~21:9 aspect) which would need ~70mp sensor @3:2 aspect
And I'd guess that if it does offer 8K raw output, that would necessarily involve a modest crop to get to a 1:1 pixel readout?
Yes, cropping (field of view change) could output a 8k raw video which is 1:1 ie no oversampling
Also, I think the A1 is 50MP, and it's advertised as oversampling 8K footage from an 8.6K readout. The A7RV is the 61MP Sony body, and glancing at their marketing materials they don't say what they do on that camera for 8K (I gave up on trying to stay abreast of Sony specs long ago).
Yep, I got the A7Rv and A1 mixed up. Canon choose the sweet spot for R5 for DCI 8k video with no crop or oversampling needed for 8k with its 45mp sensor. Oversampling from 8k to 4k should also be less processor intensive than an "odd" number as far as I know

Note that the A1 does not output 8k raw. Only the R5 can do this and only internally due to not including a port with high enough bandwidth.
It outputs 10-bit 4:2:0 H.265 footage at either 200 or 400mbps. Note that raw recording would need higher bandwidth ie Type B CFe cards.

From DPR:
"Full-width 4K is pixel-binned (merged neighboring pixels), which means it won't be as detailed as downsampling the 8K video to 4K, but the noise performance will still be comparable. If you can handle a 1.13x crop, you can shoot up to 4K/120p, and a further crop to an APS-C / Super35 mode gives you 4K that's oversampled from a 5.8K region of the sensor (so it's more detailed than full-width 4K but is likely to be a bit noisier)."

The R5's 4kHQ is downsampled from full width 8k or there is a line skip option... I don't think that it is pixel binned.
 
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koenkooi

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[...]Note that the A1 does not output 8k raw. Only the R5 can do this and only internally due to not including a port with high enough bandwidth.
[...]
Small side note on that: With a recent firmware and an Atomos V+ you can record PRoRES RAW at 8k30 over HDMI. Not real RAW or RAW-lite, but better-than-HEVC :)
 
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I'm more excited by this upcoming camera than any others that have dropped in the RF lineup. I've held back on buying high-end mirrorless bodies because I'm waiting for more of the kinks to be worked out. Recently, I picked up an R7 and while it has its own problems, the upsides of that camera bode well for Canon's future.

Hopefully this will be mature enough to make it worth buying because I'm really looking forward to that high-megapixel BSI level up. And hopefully it will be available on a regular basis so I can actually get my hands on one when I'm ready.
 
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David - Sydney

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Small side note on that: With a recent firmware and an Atomos V+ you can record PRoRES RAW at 8k30 over HDMI. Not real RAW or RAW-lite, but better-than-HEVC :)
Yes, Canon added a compressed version that can be sent externally via the HDMI 2.0 port.
If the 2nd USB-C port is Thunderbolt and/or a HDMI 2.1 port would be sufficient for raw output at 8k60
 
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David - Sydney

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Some pretty impressive specs. Would make it a pretty unaffordable camera in Australia unfortunately.it would be up there with a 1dx3
The R5 had a pre-order price of ~AUD6.4k 2.5 years ago (with spare battery/strap and tiny SD card) and sold pretty well for a long time.
Pricing was down to about AUD5.1k over last weekend.
The AUD:USD has bounced around a lot since then but is currently the same as June 2020 so perhaps the pricing is based on the AUD:JPY rate where we have appreciated ~25% since launch date.

1DXiii is closer to AUD10k including bundled 512GB card+reader.
R3 is ~AUD7.5k

I would assume that a R5ii would be similar to the launch price of the R5. Affordability is a whole different question!
 
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AlanF

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The R5 had a pre-order price of ~AUD6.4k 2.5 years ago (with spare battery/strap and tiny SD card) and sold pretty well for a long time.
Pricing was down to about AUD5.1k over last weekend.
The AUD:USD has bounced around a lot since then but is currently the same as June 2020 so perhaps the pricing is based on the AUD:JPY rate where we have appreciated ~25% since launch date.

1DXiii is closer to AUD10k including bundled 512GB card+reader.
R3 is ~AUD7.5k

I would assume that a R5ii would be similar to the launch price of the R5. Affordability is a whole different question!
The current discounted UK price for the R5 converts into AUD 7161, that's a 40% mark up on the Aussie price. We can get it for 5100 AUD from a good HK grey market importer. If Canon does the same to us with an R5 II, I'll join @entoman and wait til available on the grey market.
 
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David - Sydney

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The current discounted UK price for the R5 converts into AUD 7161, that's a 40% mark up on the Aussie price. We can get it for 5100 AUD from a good HK grey market importer. If Canon does the same to us with an R5 II, I'll join @entoman and wait til available on the grey market.
We have 10% GST vs UK 20% VAT.. but we have 5 year warranty for piece of mind if nothing else.
 
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Aussie shooter

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The R5 had a pre-order price of ~AUD6.4k 2.5 years ago (with spare battery/strap and tiny SD card) and sold pretty well for a long time.
Pricing was down to about AUD5.1k over last weekend.
The AUD:USD has bounced around a lot since then but is currently the same as June 2020 so perhaps the pricing is based on the AUD:JPY rate where we have appreciated ~25% since launch date.

1DXiii is closer to AUD10k including bundled 512GB card+reader.
R3 is ~AUD7.5k

I would assume that a R5ii would be similar to the launch price of the R5. Affordability is a whole different question!
Possibly. But those specs(if they are legit) certainly put it at quite a higher level than the original. Based on the specs alone I would say it is 500 us dollars more of a camera which in Australia would be 1k more at least given how much we tend to get screwed at the cash register. Maybe closer to r3 territory that 1dx2 territory. Then. Although having said that the r62 did not see a massive increase despite a fair increase in specs so we can only hope the r52 goes in the same direction. Tbh though for me it is more of a pure speculation issue as I am not currently in need of updating anyway
 
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