The Canon EOS R5c is coming in Q1 2022 [CR3]

[entoman]

Personally, I would not appreciate if the camera I am using were delayed or cancelled because of less than ideal performance in the modes I can easily live without.

You'd feel differently if it was a stills-related issue. Minor bugs are forgiveable - no one expects a complex electronic device to be entirely bug-free at launch, but serious bugs and design flaws should never make it to the marketplace, it's not only a pain for those of us who buy the gear, it also gives ammunition to the trolls.

 

[Kit.]

You'd feel differently if it was a stills-related issue.

If a 5D-series stills camera replacement I wanted to buy had a stills-related issue, I might feel differently, indeed.

But if any actively cooled video camera had a stills-related issue, I wouldn't care, and I definitely would not ask Canon to cancel or postpone its production.

 

[kten]

Dear Canon:

Please stop releasing all this amazing, drool-inducing stuff like R3s and f2 zooms and focus on the replacement for the 5DSr. Please give us a BSI 100mp+ camera, preferably with a detachable, up-flipping viewfinder like the fuji GFx. The VF doesn't HAVE to be removable, but please have expanded viewing options for in-studio and tethered. Let us studio pros give some feedback. We have tons of ideas. The r3 body form was a step in the right direction for sure. Variable low-pass too please?

I LOVE my Canon gear, quite a fanboy, but honestly, the RP should be enough for video people for now. Get out the landscape and product cameras; get out the flagship R1; Don't worry about these camera peasants that want a camera that does stills and video and makes a great quiche and burps the baby. I mean, my car cracks walnuts but that doesn't make it the tool for the job. When I want walnuts, I use a nutcracker, and IF I did video, I would use an entry-level cine camera.

This is such a minor complaint overall that I tried to make this complaint as self-aware as possible, in that Canon is doing great, IMO. It is almost as if Canon has channeled that 1987 energy they had when they introduced the EOS/EF system and changed the camera world forever.

Keep it up Canon, just don't forget the MP monster that keeps getting delayed.

Part of it is expanding coverage across multiple niches with one line. I think we forget as consumers companies, especially conservative ones like Canon, understand the market better than us. One size fits all do a bit of everything jack of all trades master of none tend to be sound business rather than catering directly to folks who demand a hybrid budget do it all cam, thus it isn't just a small niche with the likes of wedding folks who need solid stills and some light video duty hybrid performance rocking R5's since it suits a lot of the market niches well.

I agree with the sentiment of wanting them to make the best master of one thing dedicated niche tool, but the camera peasant thing applies to all niches. You can counter the hybrid folks should just buy cine gear with studio/product people should stop being peasants too and just buy phaseone or hassy medium format gear.

 

[BakaBokeh]

Thoughts:

• I thought the first R5C rumor said there would be internal ND's, but the subsequent one's made no further mention so it sounds like it's out. Would be awesome and I would take the extra girth for that and a fan.
• More codecs. In my use I found that I like using IPB-Lite because of the data economy. I don't personally see much of a fall off in quality. So if anything I would actually be more interested in lower bitrate codecs. Also, if some way some how they can give me RAW lite in 4K, I would be overjoyed. Hopefully the original rumor that CLOG2 will be included is true as well. I wonder if people still have issues editing the 10-bit 4.2.2 footage, and if they do... would a more friendly 4.2.0 be welcome. Personally have no issues editing, but I do have a pretty powerful workstation laptop.
• Full Size HDMI port. That should make a lot of the Atomos users happy.
• Overheating. I did a lot of early testing and found that the overheating indicator warning is conservative. You still have several minutes of shooting before it actually overheats. The firmware that addressed the overheating, gave you the user power to cool down the camera externally. You can put a fan on it or if you trust the weather sealing - a slightly damp towel on it and you will recover a lot of recording time. People seeing overheating while shooting photos should not have a problem if they don't shoot video. It's only an indicator for the default C3 video setting that causes that indicator to come on. So if your C3 is on a mode that tends to overheat, it will base the timer on that mode. Includes 4KHQ, 4K120 and 8K. Just put it on a lower setting like 4K regular and below and you probably shouldn't get that OH indicator unless you have other factors causing excessive heat.
• Can the R5 be used for all day run & gun 4KHQ? I would ask for more specifics on the shooting style. If you take shorter clips it's possible, but the length of the takes and breaks will make a difference. If you are doing long consecutive takes, then definitely not. In that scenario, I would stick to 4K Regular. That with a little post sharpening is a viable alternative that will give you the peace of mind of it not overheating. Also, think of the Overheating indicator as a guide to help you manage the heat on the camera. You can actively try to cool it, or if you have the control over how the shoot goes, you can schedule in the breaks. The more you use it, the more you get the feel of how to handle the Overheating. You understand what type of environments will bring the timer on sooner. That said, the R5c sounds like the answer to anyone who wants near unlimited shooting... just get rid of the 30 minute time limit.

 

[MrToes]

Continue reading...

How about a R5 HM (HM for HIGH MP)?

 

[sanj]

If there's active cooling then it means there is a fan and fans generate noise so...

If there is noise (I doubt it), it will be so low that external microphones will not pick it up. Besides, cameras like RED turn the fan off when the record button is pressed.

 

[Busted Knuckles]

While I take your point, it assumes a zero sum game.
If the programming is more efficient, if high cpu work is done on a dedicated asic, if the chips are lower voltage parts or if the chips are made with a smaller more advanced process less heat will be created for the same work done.
If the heat has no direct path to the outside camera body, then the entire body will heat soak with local uncontrolled heating, which is what we see. If the heat is led to an outside surface (preferably with a heat pipe), heat will flow to that surface. The total heat output of the camera remains the same. That outside surface needs to be broad enough that the total heat energy is spread out, and also needs to be able to shed heat to the air (i.e. exposed black anodized aluminum not insulating grip material).
If there were a heat pipe to a base plate with an exposed aluminum/mag base, video shooters could mount a heat sink in place of a battery grip and increase the thermal capacity of the camera a great deal. At design time, a camera metal body that's partly exposed at the baseplate and a less than $10 heat pipe would be the only changes. I suspect the new camera will be something similar, but with the grip heat sink as an integral part as that's the obvious way to go.

Thaat is my question m, where do you want the heat sink?

 

[Busted Knuckles]

Yes, being limited to 20fps in electronic shutter is just plain ridiculous, I can't see any logic behind it.

Why can't we have a choice between single shot, low (5ps), medium (10fps) and high (20fps)...

And while they're fixing issues, it would be nice if the eyepiece sensor had a user adjustable timer, to prevent the EVF shutting down 4 seconds after removing the camera from the eye.

Huh? Mechanical shutter fps? The incremental cost of the extra frams at 20 fos is effectively -0-. Why slow it down?What would be the purpose if having the evf on all the time or longer?

 

[Busted Knuckles]

The number 1 feature this would need for it to be an instant buy as a video centric body is internal NDs, 10 stops. Also high on the list is EVF removal/nerf, doing away with it entirely would be nice like the FX3.

Speaking of the FX3, XLR and SDI ports not in an awkward spot would cement the R5C as an amazing small form factor FF one man band workhorse, especially with the consistency and reliability a professional needs thanks to the fan preventing overheating.

Nice to have/pie in the sky items:

-Timecode (is that really a hard ask?)
-Detachable monitor
-Android OS (its 2021 and the OS's we pay for are stuck in the early 2000s?)
-External 8k 60fps with 1.1 crop
-Using this release as a redoubling of efforts to make canon light raw optimized and viable. Investing in a high spec apple machine for pro res raw and relying on partially processed (denoised, debayered)""raw"" from black magic is a terrible state of affairs.

Love it. I ponder what production values are attainable for such a machine/price point compared to 5 years ago.

 

[Sean C]

Thaat is my question m, where do you want the heat sink?

Within the camera? The entire base plate - as being bigger it'll shed more heat energy with a lower surface temp. An optional grip finned heat sink would have more surface area to transfer heat as well. The current setup is so (very) poor I'd expect more than a 200% improvement from a simple flat plate. It doesn't need to look like a gaming video card.

I'm in Texas, and also shoot in Florida. It needs to work continuously at least as a stills camera when it's almost 100 in the shade, but the camera is black and in the sun in my hand or around my neck.

A heat pipe to heat sink setup would greatly reduce heat soak to other components within the camera, given the processor heat output that's been identified. On a 100 degree day I had a heat soak related failure of the DC power supply in one of my past Canon bodies. I'd hope for a improved long term reliability improvement, and probably 100% duty cycle for still camera features (viewfinder refresh etc). Well worth another $10-15 in materials for a camera in this class. (of course this'd matter more for video use)

It'll be interesting to see if future generations get the heat under control with more efficient processors, or add computational imaging tools that demand ever more processor power that always strains battery and heat limits.

 

[Canfan]

I don't do video with my R5, but am happy they are diverging because that may mean the regular models are still photo focused.

Yep, like that’s now old technology or something like that…there’s always going to be some critic

 

[entoman]

Huh? Mechanical shutter fps? The incremental cost of the extra frams at 20 fos is effectively -0-. Why slow it down?What would be the purpose if having the evf on all the time or longer?

Using mechanical shutter (or EFCS) decreases life of the camera - part of the value of an electronic shutter is that it is completely silent and has no moving parts to wear out. Ultimately mechanical shutters will cease to be made, and all shutters will be entirely electronic. Limiting them to a single burst speed of 20fps is senseless.

 

[entoman]

Huh? Mechanical shutter fps? The incremental cost of the extra frams at 20 fos is effectively -0-. Why slow it down?What would be the purpose if having the evf on all the time or longer?

I see you edited your reply regarding where you initially questioned the need for a longer EVF-active duration, and presumably now accept that it would be valuable to be able to extend the time which the EVF stays active after removing the eye from the camera...

Here is a typical scenerio: when shooting wildlife with a heavy handheld tele or zoom, people normally shoot a burst and then lower the camera for a while to reduce the strain on their arms. 10 seconds later (when the EVF has turned itself off) an animal or bird suddenly appears, so you rapidly raise the camera to your eye - and hey presto - you have to wait for the EVF to turn on again, and for the AF to activate. In many/most cases, the photo is missed because the animal/bird has moved. With DSLRs this is never a problem, because the viewfinder is permanently "on" and has no lag time.

Obviously the reason why Canon limits the EVF to 4 seconds (after removal from the eye) is to save battery power, but if they had produced a more powerful battery, the issue would not exist. Sony managed to produce a more powerful battery 2 years ago, so why can't Canon manage it?

... and if you are tempted to think I'm a Sony troll, think again and look at my gear list. I've been using Canon gear for years, and have no wish to switch brands, but I get the impression that they's rather force people to buy and carry 3 sets of batteries, than to supply a single one that had better performance...

 

[EOS 4 Life]

if some way some how they can give me RAW lite in 4K,

4K RAW would be a tremendous crop from 45MP.

 

[EOS 4 Life]

At 4k I believe that you should be fine, but maybe rent a second R5 body for the day?

Wouldn't an R6 be better for 4K 60 FPS?

 

[EOS 4 Life]

Within the camera? The entire base plate - as being bigger it'll shed more heat energy with a lower surface temp.

There has to be a place for a heatsink to transfer energy or it is just buying time.
The better the weather sealing, the worse the heat transfer.
That is why the heatsinks in the S1H, C70, and FX3 are all exposed to the air.
Better yet, they are actively cooled just like we expect the C70 to be.

 

[EOS 4 Life]

If you prefer Sony go with Sony. If you prefer Canon go with Canon.

I fundamentally disagree with that statement.
I think gear can be compared against brands and I do not only own Canon gear.
I would think this place would be Canon biased but whenever anyone criticizes any Canon gear there are comments like "Go buy Sony" or "Go buy a Fuji."

 

[EOS 4 Life]

So it looks like Canon is borrowing a page from Sony’s playbook.

I think Canon is more borrowing from the Panasonic playbook with the S1 and the S1H.
I do not expect R5c to just be an R5 with a larger heatsink and a fan.

 

[EOS 4 Life]

You'd feel differently if it was a stills-related issue.

I definitely would not as long as I knew the limitations like I did before I bought my R5.
It did everything I expected it to do.
I am happier after the firmware updates but I am glad Canon released the camera when they did.

 

[EOS 4 Life]

Huh? Mechanical shutter fps? The incremental cost of the extra frams at 20 fos is effectively -0-. Why slow it down?What would be the purpose if having the evf on all the time or longer?

Speaking from experience, fewer pictures to wade through.