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The Canon EOS R6 Mark II should be announced sometime this year
- Thread starter Canon Rumors Guy
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They bought all the early ones that weren't stacked BSI from Sony, but Sony didn't sell to third parties the stacked ones with PDAF they used in the R100 and RX10 IV. Did Sony relax this in 2019 - I couldn't find this by Googling, which is why I asked? DPR etc wrote up the G7X as if it were a new sensor. I have a 2017 RX10 IV. Its AF is still remarkable and Sony hasn't upgraded the RX10 IV and it's still their flagship bridge camera.
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I don’t think I implied they’re seeking that nor do I think they even could. By nail in the coffin, I mean putting themselves back on top as the unequivocal leader / no brainer, moving people back to the platform and/or regaining their reign as champion.
And yes, they do care about this. If they didn’t, they wouldn’t be so worried about 3rd party lenses, wanting to ensure they have a full RF lineup before they allow reverse engineering. They wouldn’t be responding to the community with firmware updates and fixes, they wouldn’t be listening and unlocking more video features in their hybrids and making more entry level cinema branded cameras.
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Canon definitely cares about market share.
At the same time, they do not want to saddle themselves with spec wars and price wars.
Sona and Canon are the only real threats to each other's market share.
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I don't see how unlocking the mount helps Canon sell Canon lenses or how that drives a nail in Sony's coffin. I don't understand how Canon providing a platform for 3rd party lenses helps Canon sell Canon lenses. Canon makes zero when Sigma sells a lens. Camera bodies are only a part of Canon's business. Why should Canon commit suicide to cater to folks who want another company's lenses? Why should Canon just give up a part of the business to help some other business? Maybe Sigma should, instead make cameras? Wait, Sigma does make cameras. Inferior cameras.
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This exact kind of thinking is what keeps Canon in business. In fact I've seen a lot of people reacting in a similar way to Canon's overheating issues and giving them a pass.
I owned R6, had to sell it because of overheating, because I didn't believe it was that significant, and had to go with A7S III.
I'm not going to go into Canon/Sony argument, but I will say this. In 3-5 years it will be very clear who is the number one market leader and sells more cameras. It won't be Canon though
Not because they can't produce a better camera than Sony or ecosystem or features: they can do all of it and do better.
Because of Canon's inability to change their culture. That's hard. Their philosophy is fundamentally different. They like to artificially constrain their products trying to produce highly differentiated offerings like Cinema vs EOS Rs, they closed their mount, etc. (Sony does it too but less aggressively)
Their bet is on extracting more $ out of a single customer VS going after more customers. You want an ultimate video and photo camera? Go with C70 + R5 combo for example.
Sony is moving into more "one thing for everything" products, not afraid of overlapping their cinema lineup. And aggressively pricing them like FX30.
Their bet is we'll sell lower priced, more versatile product to non-pro people VS pure pros.
Pros are a small category of buyers. A lot of them, like on this forum are not switching to Sony. But new folks, doing video, or photo or both, they want a lower priced more versatile feature-wise start. That's what Sony is going after. And Canon so far has not shown much interest in this direction.
End of the day it's all about bottom line $. I personally don't believe Canon can "pull Apple" in photo/video market. It's too small and specialized for that.
But let's see, right.
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I own the R5 and the internet melted down over the "overheating" issue. I have had overheating in 4k120 but ended up running out of card space rather than video most of the time. I haven't had any issues after the last firmware update though but I only record short clips.
The R5 has potential overheating issues in 3 video modes only and has improved the record times in 3 separate firmware updates. External recording is unlimited as well.
If buyers are giving Canon a pass then that is awesome marketing on their part.
What firmware version were you using at the time? The A7siii is a great camera of course.
People have been forecasting Canon's demise for a long time now. The only segment that Sony leads sales (as far as we can work out) is ff mirrorless ILCs. The update of the R6 after only 2 years is very un-Canon so they are becoming more aggressive. The A7RV can be said to catch up 2 years later with the R5. The main advantages are 60 vs 45mp and tilt/flippy screen with touch menus for the first time!I'm not going to go into Canon/Sony argument, but I will say this. In 3-5 years it will be very clear who is the number one market leader and sells more cameras. It won't be Canon though
All OEMs in every market segment their products and protect their intellectual property. Sony had to open their E mount at the beginning simply to enable their new bodies to work as they had almost no lenses available. It worked out well for them but you can't put the genie back in the bottle now.
The 5Dii was the market leader to add video to a stills body. Canon didn't really innovate strongly in the 5Diii/iv and Magic Lantern showed what the 5Diii was actually capable of. Canon definitely let the engineers off the chain with the R5. Their first 8k/30 raw video capable body in any format and any length of recording time with IBIS/AF and is still bleeding edge. The A1 still cannot record 8k raw if that is what you want/need.
The R5c is a pretty good hybrid video/stills machine. Not perfect of course but definitely Cinema focused as it doesn't include IBIS. Note "hybrid" as the C70 has a different form factor and it wouldn't work well as a stills body.
The FX30 is great cinema camera but it is not really a great stills camera. Would you agree?
I would disagree that Canon is not adding great video functionality into their new bodies. Most "pros" would still prefer a different format for high end cinema though. B-roll/crash cam is a different story though.
Given that the R6ii is priced at the same level as the R6 but will have new features after 2 years is a good pointer to how Canon is improving. Whether it is enough to maintain market lead is a good question but they are definitely still profitable and there are many happy users. Having Sony (and Nikon) is good for keeping Canon focused on being competitive.
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Yet Canon continues to gain market share. Last year Sony gained, but Canon gained more. So apparently this issue that you think is so massive...isn't.
You're not saying anything new. People on this forum have been predicting d00m for Canon for at least the 12 years I have been here. But this time it's different. I'm sure you're the one who'll finally hit the mark on this.I'm not going to go into Canon/Sony argument, but I will say this. In 3-5 years it will be very clear who is the number one market leader and sells more cameras. It won't be Canon though
Not because they can't produce a better camera than Sony or ecosystem or features: they can do all of it and do better.
Because of Canon's inability to change their culture. That's hard. Their philosophy is fundamentally different. They like to artificially constrain their products trying to produce highly differentiated offerings like Cinema vs EOS Rs, they closed their mount, etc. (Sony does it too but less aggressively)
Their bet is on extracting more $ out of a single customer VS going after more customers. You want an ultimate video and photo camera? Go with C70 + R5 combo for example.
...Or not.
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I do not think that is true.
Canon and Sigma will work out a licensing deal.
It is a business deal so they will have to agree on terms and it would have to be beneficial to both parties.
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As stated in the post I quoted the camera is unlikely to get firmware updates any more. It will also lose a lot of value. Not that difficult to understand.
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I understand that. Thing is that there are those that excoriate Canon for protecting what is rightfully thiers now, when there is no such contract. That's a whole other scenario.
On the other hand, Canon must have calculated it would not be good for Canon at this time. Sony has calculated differently.
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If Sony sells more cameras, it is because they are brilliant at marketing. They were able to get the young camera buyer hooked by getting internet reveiwers and their fanboy network to push the greatness of Sony specs. Their first 2 generations of FF mirrorless were - without question - the worst cameras I ever used. But they had great sensors. Every review and forum was filled with comments on how great the sensor is - and how far behind Canon is. People are still repeating these comments today - even though all testing shows very little difference once Canon went to on-sensor conversion. The anti-Canon sentiment is still prevalent on the internet, and unfortunately for Nikon, almost all recommendations when new potential camera buyers ask questions on facebook groups about what camera to buy, it's Canon or Sony. Over and over again, Sony users comment on how Sony cares about it's customers, unlike Canon. Seriously? These companies are looking at the bottom line. If Sony really cared more, don't you think they would have improved their ergonomics after 4 generations? It's possibly the no. 1 complaint about Sony cameras, and would take no technological advances to implement. Other Sony issues that were prevalent for years (and possibly still lacking) are dust removal and weather sealing. Things that are important to users but not flashy or high tech. They are spec oriented and always have been. Reviewers comparing the A1 to the Nikon Z9 complained that the Z9 did not have as high a resolution EVF as the A1...but here's the rub, they all liked the Z9 EVF better and thought it brighter and clearer. So Sony wins the spec war, but produces a product that is actually inferior. The reviewers speculated the difference in the EVF was that Sony uses cheaper glass. I would not be surprised if this is not the only part of the camera that uses cheaper materials than their competition. So, yes, Sony may become the ultimate leader in camera sales. And yes, it will be because of a difference in culture. But it's not a culture that appeals to me - basically a culture that favors style over substance, flashiness over boring reliability, industry leading specs over overall quality....
I'm not going to go into Canon/Sony argument, but I will say this. In 3-5 years it will be very clear who is the number one market leader and sells more cameras. It won't be Canon though
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YAPODFC.I'm not going to go into Canon/Sony argument, but I will say this. In 3-5 years it will be very clear who is the number one market leader and sells more cameras. It won't be Canon though
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For 2021, Sony gained nearly 5% of the camera market, and for the first time in several years Canon lost market share, dropping 2%. So, heading into 2022, Canon had 46% of the market, and Sony had 27%. It will be some time before 2022 global data come out (typically in November for the prior calendar year), but what we know already is that in Japan during 2022, Canon surpassed Sony to lead the mirrorless ILC market. That doesn't bode well for Sony's possible rise to prominence.
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