The Megapixels are Coming [CR1]

[gene_can_sing]

They need to hurry with the 4K C-DSLR. Sony is kicking Canon's A$$ now in video and a LOT of people have switched to the Sony FS-100, especially now that the Metabones adaptor allows full electronic interface with the FS-100 and Canon lenses. Canon could have owned that market, but they slept on it, so Sony took advantage and came out on top.

The 5D3 is shaping up to be a real disappointment in video since it's still has the soft, up-res'd false HD (at least in the early test models). So yeah, the 4K C-DSLR really needs to come out. And have a FLIP SCREEN for God sake. We need it for video.

If it's not soon, I'm going to have to buy the Sony FS-100. I'm not thrilled about it since I now hate shooting with the video camera form, but I need a better picture.

If the 4K DSLR came out at NAB in April, I would buy it the next day even it it is $6000. I need a better video solution and I cannot wait much longer.

And NO, that is not going to be the high mega-pixel camera from Canon. Video requires low mega-pixels because then the processor has less work to do to down-scale the image into a 2K output (or in this case a 2K to 4K) output.

 

[unfocused]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I just did some quick calculations and it looks like:
7D sensor at 18 mp = 46 mp full frame
50D sensor at 15 mp = 38 mp full frame
1D IV sensor at 16 mp = 27 mp full frame.

So, it seems to me that if Canon decided they really need to bring a higher megapixel camera to market quickly, they don't have to reinvent the wheel. Could they just upsize one of their current sensors?

 

[Wahoowa]

I agree with some of the above comments. I don't think this will be a camera in the same tier as 5D Mark III. It will have to be a pro body. This might be considered as the 1Ds Mark III replacement, while 1DX is kinda the 1D Mark IV replacement. Maybe it'll be a camera with cropped feature built-in.

Also, I agree that switching to Nikon shouldn't be based on just the body. I mean Canon bodies are really that bad? If I have to start over, I'd still pick Canon over Nikon because of their lens selections. Even for the body, I still prefer 5D Mark III over D800. The only issues I have with 5D Mark III are the slow x-sync and the price.

 

[Marsu42]

I have little doubt Canon will release a high MP camera. The question is when. This year? Next year?

... the main piece of information for me in this rumor is: Canon might not believe that 22mp is the perfect number for everyone either.

I agree with some of the above comments. I don't think this will be a camera in the same tier as 5D Mark III. It will have to be a pro body.

Why would that be? Like Microsoft, Canon seems to have reacted to users' requirements in the past. For example they released the 600D with the video-friendly screen right after the 550D. While I guess they will try to get away with an as high price as possible, if the competitor is the ~3000 bucks D800, they won't concern themselves with disappointed 5d3 buyers. 5dx anyone?

 

[ruuneos]

Well nobody doesn't really need that much megapixels, but if you do fashion photography then it's OK.
But it's nice to see that Canon is moving forward and fast now

 

[Marsu42]

Well nobody doesn't really need that much megapixels, but if you do fashion photography then it's OK.

... doing macro work, it would be very welcome too! Not only as a replacement for a microscope, but if you don't need to fill the sensor frame with an object to get a descent print size, you gain more flexibility concerning natural light and flash. For static objects noise won't matter because of a tripod, and dr neither because you can do hdr.

 

[maxxevv]

If Canon were to release such a camera, I would think they would go down the route of an improved 5DII/7D amalgam.

- 40~48MP
- 7D borrowed/improved AF module
- 5DII build quality
- 3~3.5fps
- Improved dynamic range (16bit ADC ??)
- Moderately lower ISO range
- Single CF/SD card

Essentially a landscape/studio oriented camera with pixel binning for video like the C300.

That's how/where I see the gap is for such a camera.

 

[Axilrod]

From what i've read there is way more issues with the 16-35L and 24L than the 35L. My bet would be those would be replaced before the 35L

The 35L was released in 1998, and the 24L II was released in 2008 along the 5D Mark II, why on earth would they update a lens that is 10 years newer first?

 

[awinphoto]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I just did some quick calculations and it looks like:
7D sensor at 18 mp = 46 mp full frame
50D sensor at 15 mp = 38 mp full frame
1D IV sensor at 16 mp = 27 mp full frame.

So, it seems to me that if Canon decided they really need to bring a higher megapixel camera to market quickly, they don't have to reinvent the wheel. Could they just upsize one of their current sensors?

While you are correct, I hope they would reinvent the wheel because the 50D, in studio applications, at ISO 160, was too noisy for me... The 7d, to me, at low ISO's was a tad cleaner than the 50D... So while they could use similar technologies to make bigger chips, I hope the new digic and gapless lenses and new algorithms leads to reduced noise... Other wise I will be staying with my 5d3 for a verrrrrrrrrrryyyyyy loooooonnnnnnnnggggggggg tiiiimmmmmmmmeeeeeeeeeeee, which is fine by me.

 

[Tuggem]

A suggestion that a high megapixel camera is coming from Canon, and could be introduced near the end of 2012. Alongside the camera would come new ultra wide angle lens(es). It was suggested both a zoom and a prime in the area of 16mm.

I warn that this sort of conjecture will be a regular occurrence going forward I think. There is a large number of people in the community that desire a 35 megapixel camera from Canon.

Just more megapixels is NOT ENOUGH.


We want better dyanmic range (DR) and lower noise - and in raw files, not JPEG!.

Without those, more megapixels holds questionable value, just the same as the 5D3 is of questionable value for large numbers of 5D2 owners - the images that come out are roughly the same, so upgrading is based entirely on whether you need/want the other attributes of the 5D3.

This is why they should buy the sensor from Sony.
If they could get 54MP (upscaled 24MP sensor) with same DR and high ISO noise as D800. (the Sony 16MP and 24MP are about equal in these terms according to DXO and also to other sites subjective testing)
Meanwhile Canon can upgrade their own thechnology to the same level.

 

[pakosouthpark]

this news will make the big MP fans quite happy..! it would be a smart move from canon too

 

[LetTheRightLensIn]

It would be nice if they would be open to new ideas and either allowed some higher MP '5DX' to offer crop modes for more fps, as does Nikon, instead of forcing a 22MP+6fps or 36+ MP+3fps choice. Or even 'daring' to allow the 5 series to use 2 digics (maybe FF mirror/shutter take more power and there is not enough left for a second digic????) to let it also do 6fps. (They can offer high-quality video by simply using a somewhat cropped area of the sensor to grab a perfect downsize pattern for 1920x1080p out of.)

But I really see them NOT offering a moire/aliasing free cropped video mode or any way to get decent body speed out of it. I think they are too stubborn.

 

[awinphoto]

It would be nice if they would be open to new ideas and either allowed some higher MP '5DX' to offer crop modes for more fps, as does Nikon, instead of forcing a 22MP+6fps or 36+ MP+3fps choice. Or even 'daring' to allow the 5 series to use 2 digics (maybe FF mirror/shutter take more power and there is not enough left for a second digic????) to let it also do 6fps. (They can offer high-quality video by simply using a somewhat cropped area of the sensor to grab a perfect downsize pattern for 1920x1080p out of.)

But I really see them NOT offering a moire/aliasing free cropped video mode or any way to get decent body speed out of it. I think they are too stubborn.

Contact Canon in mass and let them know... regarding the crop mode, while possible, I think, as said before in other treads, it does beg to question whether if they do that, does it open the door to usage of ef-s lenses, which cant go on a full frame camera due to the extended rear... or do they say, crop mode only with EF lenses? And even if they do that, i dont get how nikon, you have to be in crop mode to get 6FPS? the mirror is going up and down anyways so it's not the mirror hindering performance unless the mirror isn't going up and down the full length as FF... But beware what you ask for... i'm sure they canon could produce a camera that trumps the D800E every way possible, but at what cost?

 

[Ricku]

Just more megapixels is NOT ENOUGH.


We want better dyanmic range (DR) and lower noise - and in raw files, not JPEG!.

Without those, more megapixels holds questionable value, just the same as the 5D3 is of questionable value for large numbers of 5D2 owners - the images that come out are roughly the same, so upgrading is based entirely on whether you need/want the other attributes of the 5D3.

Agreed.

I want a high MP camera, but the upgrade will be just as useless as the 5D3, if the dynamic range is not dramatically improved.

I really hope that Canon will some day understand this simple fact. Higher MP is good, but higher DR is the true king.

Heck I'd even settle for the 22MP 5D3 if it's DR had been upgraded!

 

[justsomedude]

Agreed.

I want a high MP camera, but the upgrade will be just as useless as the 5D3, if the dynamic range is not dramatically improved.

I really hope that Canon will some day understand this simple fact. Higher MP is good, but higher DR is the true king.

Heck I'd even settle for the 22MP 5D3 if it's DR had been upgraded!

Another +1

With Westfall already defending the lack of significant MP bump in the 5D3 by stating 22 "is enough", and then expounding by claiming limited megapixels allow for higher FPS burst rates - I have begun losing faith in Canon. So now I'm supposed to believe the stagnant MP count was all part of Canon's genius plan to transform the 5D line into an action shooter's camera?? WTF?!?! I don't need 6FPS in a studio/event/landscape camera you jagoffs!

And now with the latest rumor that Canon will be releasing a "high MP body" by the end of this year, it's clear that they dropped the ball on the 5D3, are scared sh*tless by the d800, and a scrambling to cover their ass before everyone jumps ship to the dark side. "Nono no... hold on JUuuuust a minute... we have a high MP body in the works... it's coming... you know... hopefully by Christmas and such. Meerrrrrrrr!"

Man - this is starting to turn into a huge embarrassment for big C. I wish this was all just a bad dream. Talk about being caught with your pants down. Canon thought Nikon would never dare to cram so many pixels onto a sensor. Now that they have - and got sick images as a result - they look like fools. I'll tell you this - Nikon was pretty damn good at keeping the d800 secret if Canon really never saw this coming - which is starting to look like what happened.

I'll tell you what - I won't be the guinea pig on Canon's 40+MP project crammed out in 8 months in response to Nikon. That's not R&D ... that's playing catch up.

 

[facedodge]

How about this....

The XD series turns into the "All Around Camera" Series. It becomes the favorite of hobbyists, wedding and street photographers.
The XXD Series goes Sports... High FPS... Crop... AF...
The XXXD Series loses the Rebel tag and goes landscape or studio... MP... DR...
The XXXXD Series keeps the Rebel tag.

 

[SeanL]

You guys are getting way out in front of a CR1 rumor.
Don't get me wrong, I'm in the market for an affordable medium format camera like the 645D for landscape.

Post some online proof that Canon is concerned about the D800 resolution.

 

[StevenBrianSamuels]

If Canon does a High MP I really hope they don't put it in a 1d body. Taking price out of the factor (@5k+ if wont compete with the D800/e) the sheer size and weight of a 1d body would be a negative in the studio.

BTW - I looked into the 645D. Great if you dont use flash but it's low sync-speed kills it for me.

 

[justsomedude]

You guys are getting way out in front of a CR1 rumor.
Don't get me wrong, I'm in the market for an affordable medium format camera like the 645D for landscape.

Post some online proof that Canon is concerned about the D800 resolution.

Canon will never come out and say "we are scared by the d800," that's just not smart business - but we can read between the lines. In this interview, Chuck Westfall is defending the great advancements in FPS on the 5D3 by limiting the MP to 22. Since when has the 5D line been about action shooting?? According to Canon central - now that's what the 5D3 is all about...

[quote author=Chuck Westfall]Staying in the 22 megapixel range allowed us to maximize base level image quality, while at the same time enabling us to achieve a maximum continuous shooting speed of 6 frames per second. This is the fastest continuous shooting speed in the 20+ megapixel full-frame sensor DSLR category, and it expands the potential customer base for the EOS 5D Mark III by making it more attractive to photojournalists and entry-level sports photographers. --Chuck Westfall[/quote]

As far as I'm concerned, this is Canon already making excuses for the relatively low-MP of the 5D3 (compared to the d800). They are now trying to use FPS as a legitimate argument for lower MP... in the 5D line? The 5D series has NEVER been about action shooting.

"Ohhhhh - we INTENTIONALLY kept MP down to boost that fps rate to 6!! Because, yea... you know... that's what those studio and landscape toggers wanted!!! Wooohooo!! Right? Uh... merrrrr."

 

[lol]

Don't listen to marketing speak. They want to sell you what they have NOW, not what they might have later. They have to talk up the 5D3 and shift as many of them as possible.

Putting that aside, they will eventually address other needs not covered by that. What they think they are and how to fill them are the big questions.

Personally I see two options for a "high MP full frame" body:
1: Take the 5D3, cram in a 30 to 40-something MP sensor. Change nothing else. You get up to double the MP count for half the shooting rate. Everything else can be kept more or less the same to make it easy to manufacture. If they go this route I'd expect it to cost a bit more than the 5D3 as they'd no doubt try to talk it up as a higher position.

2: Do the above, but shovel in another Digic and keep the fps up. Pricing will be creeping ever closer to 1D X territory.