The Megapixels are Coming [CR1]

[tt]

49MP gives a 4x oversampling (and out-MP the D800) - could Csnon just use the sensor in 2 different cameras?
Have a high MP cinema dSLR and have a high MP stills dSLR?
Or have both and charge top whack.

 

[briansquibb]

Still the option of the APS-H high mps which would also keep the wildlife shooters happy and totally wipe Nikon out of that segment

 

[grahamsz]

What are your thoughts on resale value. I'm shooting a rebel right now and have been putting off the full frame upgrade for about a yera because I figured the 5d mk3 was coming.

If I keep my preorder, but a $3200 camera, and need to sell it again a year later because they do come up with something really awesome - where do I stand.

If the mk3 ends up being like a refined improved version of the mk2, I expect flipping it used will maybe lose me $900 or so. However if the replacement camera isn't so suited to the wedding market, then i expect I'd maybe lose less.

Any thoughts?

 

[moreorless]

With Westfall already defending the lack of significant MP bump in the 5D3 by stating 22 "is enough", and then expounding by claiming limited megapixels allow for higher FPS burst rates - I have begun losing faith in Canon. So now I'm supposed to believe the stagnant MP count was all part of Canon's genius plan to transform the 5D line into an action shooter's camera?? WTF?!?! I don't need 6FPS in a studio/event/landscape camera you jagoffs!

And now with the latest rumor that Canon will be releasing a "high MP body" by the end of this year, it's clear that they dropped the ball on the 5D3, are scared sh*tless by the d800, and a scrambling to cover their ass before everyone jumps ship to the dark side. "Nono no... hold on JUuuuust a minute... we have a high MP body in the works... it's coming... you know... hopefully by Christmas and such. Meerrrrrrrr!"

Man - this is starting to turn into a huge embarrassment for big C. I wish this was all just a bad dream. Talk about being caught with your pants down. Canon thought Nikon would never dare to cram so many pixels onto a sensor. Now that they have - and got sick images as a result - they look like fools. I'll tell you this - Nikon was pretty damn good at keeping the d800 secret if Canon really never saw this coming - which is starting to look like what happened.

I'll tell you what - I won't be the guinea pig on Canon's 40+MP project crammed out in 8 months in response to Nikon. That's not R&D ... that's playing catch up.

Westfall like any manufacturers representive is simpley not going to highlight a products weakness, nore is he going to reveal the companies indepth plans if those plans could potentially hurt short term sales. Do you see Nikon giving out details of a direct sucessor to the D700? I'm sure they hope many users buy a D800 then also buy that body aswell or go with a D4.

The rest of your post just seems like pointless spectulation to me.

 

[justsomedude]

The rest of your post just seems like pointless spectulation to me.

I don't know why you think it's pointless. Evaluating the competition and understanding customers desires is what spurs innovation. And if you don't innovate, you can't succeed. Right now, the dSLR market is all about who is making the biggest advancements in digital imaging technology. And you can be damn sure Canon wants to be #1 in that arena.

At least I hope they do.

 

[GL]

Personally I see two options for a "high MP full frame" body:
1: Take the 5D3, cram in a 30 to 40-something MP sensor. Change nothing else. You get up to double the MP count for half the shooting rate. Everything else can be kept more or less the same to make it easy to manufacture. If they go this route I'd expect it to cost a bit more than the 5D3 as they'd no doubt try to talk it up as a higher position.

2: Do the above, but shovel in another Digic and keep the fps up. Pricing will be creeping ever closer to 1D X territory.

I agree on both counts. Either way a 40MP 5DX will cost much more than the 5D3 (making no dent in demand for the D800), or will be released after the 5D3/7D2 cycle in 2-3 years (and then justifiably be called 5DX). Releasing a 5DX while the 5D2/3 are still in production makes no sense, because it's not a merger of anything. If released this year I expect such a camera to be called a 3D, IQ/DR will be about the same (so as not to threaten 1DX sales), but resolution will be right up there, with maybe another feature or two thrown in.

Those wanting Sony EXMOR-level DR in a 2012 Canon body will be left wanting I suspect. Personally I've been elated with the 5D2 quality, so even a modest improvement + the smorgasbord of new pro features on the 5D3 make me a very happy Canon customer indeed

 

[wickidwombat]

I'm not in a hurry to replace my 5D2 but this is the last chance for Canon to stay with Canon. I don't think though I'm willing to wait longer than Photokina.

Seriously can we get an ETD on that? I am getting really tired of reading this whinning in every thread (I am certain most others are too) can the ship jumpers please get on with it already? and let s let the board get back to how it was?

 

[wickidwombat]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I just did some quick calculations and it looks like:
7D sensor at 18 mp = 46 mp full frame
50D sensor at 15 mp = 38 mp full frame
1D IV sensor at 16 mp = 27 mp full frame.

So, it seems to me that if Canon decided they really need to bring a higher megapixel camera to market quickly, they don't have to reinvent the wheel. Could they just upsize one of their current sensors?

The only one of those sensors that i would be happy with the IQ from if it were upsized with no technological advancement is the 1D1V at 27MP

if however they got ontop of the 7D low iso noise, high iso noise and general softness (this is relative softness mind you i'm not saying its marshmallow soft for all the crop lovers out there) fact is the 7D IQ needs improving and I think perhaps a touch of the new sensor tech can give it that lift it needs but of course the crops are going to need a MP jump to beat sony.
I've said I think they will try and 1 up sony with 27MP (just a guess) now if you make that Full Frame you get 69 Dude!

 

[briansquibb]

I've said I think they will try and 1 up sony with 27MP (just a guess) now if you make that Full Frame you get 69 Dude!

+1 for the late evening laugh ;D ;D ;D

 

[traveller]

Smite me if you like, I'm getting a bit tired of all the bloody whining that is becoming increasingly hard to avoid on this forum.

Why is everyone getting so upset about two cameras that they haven't even used yet? Yes, I think that a high megapixel camera would of benefit to some users, but it seems that there are a large group of people here that have convinced themselves that the 5D MKIII is a poor camera based upon internet gossip and pseudo-scientific analysis. If 22MP makes the 5D MkIII a crap camera, then all the pros must be fools because both Canon and Nikon are trying to sell them cameras with "only" 16-18MP.

For years post after post on this and on other forums have blasted Canon about "mindlessly cramming more megapixels onto their latest sensor", but as soon as Nikon and Sony start doing it then it's fine! It seems that Canon were right all along: screw all other considerations, the average user can't see past the megapixel count.

Don't get me wrong, I'll criticise Canon on the price of the 5D MkIII, but I'm certainly not going to prejudge it based upon pixel count or files that I've found on the internet.

 

[psolberg]

if canon wanted to chase MP, they would have done it with the 5DmkIII.

not happening. not for a long time (over a year). if there is a high MP body, it will be called 1DsMK4 and it will run ya 8 thousand bucks.

 

[briansquibb]

if canon wanted to chase MP, they would have done it with the 5DmkIII.

not happening. not for a long time (over a year). if there is a high MP body, it will be called 1DsMK4 and it will run ya 8 thousand bucks.

At which point we buy a Pentax or a Mamiya ;D ;D

 

[jaduffy007]

Well, I'm coming directly from dpreview forums and I gotta say...the new images from imaging resource show the D800 with jaw dropping resolution and DR (!!) at low iso compared to 5d3. At high iso, they're about tied. On the jpegs, one can argue the 5d3 is slightly cleaner or it gets there via cooking the jpegs with smearing NR etc. Bottom line they're close...very close at iso6400 using the raws. At low iso, they ain't close...not remotely. Any doubt I had about whether Canon was falling behind Sony is now erased, they are...significantly. D800 for me.

If you want to see what I'm ranting about...go to the *raw* comparison threads at dpreview or better yet, download the raw files yourself. The jpeg comparisons are very misleading.

So yah...Canon needs to figure out some things and introduce some new cameras if they want to compete.

 

[MazV-L]

I'm not in a hurry to replace my 5D2 but this is the last chance for Canon to stay with Canon. I don't think though I'm willing to wait longer than Photokina.

Seriously can we get an ETD on that? I am getting really tired of reading this whinning in every thread (I am certain most others are too) can the ship jumpers please get on with it already? and let s let the board get back to how it was?

+1
My guess is that when we're able to read the REAL REVIEWS of the 1DX and 5Diii many people are going to be pleasantly surprised at how good these cameras really are.

Passing judgement on them now is just plain premature.

 

[jaduffy007]

I'm not in a hurry to replace my 5D2 but this is the last chance for Canon to stay with Canon. I don't think though I'm willing to wait longer than Photokina.

Seriously can we get an ETD on that? I am getting really tired of reading this whinning in every thread (I am certain most others are too) can the ship jumpers please get on with it already? and let s let the board get back to how it was?

+1
My guess is that when we're able to read the REAL REVIEWS of the 1DX and 5Diii many people are going to be pleasantly surprised at how good these cameras really are.

Passing judgement on them now is just plain premature.

A week ago, I would have agreed with you. Not now. The writing is on the wall.

 

[Kahuna]

Competition is wonderful ... I hope that this presses both Canon and Nikon to make some serious advancements in sensor designs... I wonder what life would be like if Steve Jobs was involved with DLSR's?

 

[MazV-L]

I'm not in a hurry to replace my 5D2 but this is the last chance for Canon to stay with Canon. I don't think though I'm willing to wait longer than Photokina.

Seriously can we get an ETD on that? I am getting really tired of reading this whinning in every thread (I am certain most others are too) can the ship jumpers please get on with it already? and let s let the board get back to how it was?

+1
My guess is that when we're able to read the REAL REVIEWS of the 1DX and 5Diii many people are going to be pleasantly surprised at how good these cameras really are.

Passing judgement on them now is just plain premature.

A week ago, I would have agreed with you. Not now. The writing is on the wall.

A few months use in the real world by the average users for these cameras and the genuine pros and cons of 1DX, 5Diii & D800 will become apparent.

 

[Lee Jay]

I think the key word here is FF. I can see Canon pulling a rabbit out the hat with a 30-40MP 7D II, similar specs to the current 7D, lower high ISO IQ than any of the FF cams, but decent low-to-midrange IQ and best-in-class resolution. That way it doesn't step on any "pro" toes in terms of ultimate IQ/build, and undercuts Nikon's high-res cam by $1000 or more.

No way that'll ever happen. The 7D's core value is in its APS-C sensor...that will never change. The entire reason people buy the 7D is for the extra reach with pro-grade features. The 7D is already pretty maxed out when it comes to resolution as well with 18mp in an APS-C format. You might gain a bit more by going to 20 or 22mp, but thats going to make it really hard to get sharp shots right down to the pixel level...and you would only be able to do so at a very narrow range of apertures at the center of the lens before diffraction or optical aberrations kill you.

So, what you're saying is teleconverters are useless on a 7D (a 1.4x is like doubling pixel count in the center).

Sorry, but you are dead wrong. I've used stacked 2.8x worth of TCs on an 18MP 1.6-crop sensor with results better than just with a 2x. 2.8x^2*18=141MP.

 

[justsomedude]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I just did some quick calculations and it looks like:
7D sensor at 18 mp = 46 mp full frame
50D sensor at 15 mp = 38 mp full frame
1D IV sensor at 16 mp = 27 mp full frame.

So, it seems to me that if Canon decided they really need to bring a higher megapixel camera to market quickly, they don't have to reinvent the wheel. Could they just upsize one of their current sensors?

You know - this is an interesting post/idea. Canon has been known to use new bodies as a basis for testing new tech. The 7D was a brand new concept when it launched, and could very well have served as an R&D device inside Canon for developing an uberpixel full frame sensor. With the 3-year anniversary approaching for the original 7D announcement, it would make sense that Canon has been researching how to improve the IQ of that kind of pixel-density to make a 40+MP FF body a real imaging beast and a worthwhile product.

The 5D3 may just be scratching the surface of a whole new era of Canon bodies to come. Curious indeed.

 

[wickidwombat]

I wonder what life would be like if Steve Jobs was involved with DLSR's?

then we wouldn't be able to save photos, only view them on the icloud at $1 per view