The Nikon Z9 will be announced in November or December this year

[AlanF]

I have tried the R5 aye and the R6 with an adapted 100-400. I have also tired a A9 (not A1) and the stacked sensor had a much faster refresh that felt more like a DSLR when it came to keeping up with the subject. I can get BIF with my Z6 too, I just adjust mentally how many ms behind the EVF is. I'll note to clear up confusion, I am not taking about the AF tracking keeping up with the subject, I am talking about the EVF keeping up and I feel the next 2-3 pro bodies will focus on having less and less EVF latency as a differentiator between them and the R5 level bodies.

Here is an FM Sony thread of people who have used both the A1 and R5, the R5 stacks up really well against the Sony with its stacked sensor etc https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1705910/0

 

[Photo Bunny]

Here is an FM Sony thread of people who have used both the A1 and R5, the R5 stacks up really well against the Sony with its stacked sensor etc https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1705910/0

A thread full of people comparing AF performance and the like. I am not talking about the end result or AF performance.

 

[Kuau]

If I wasn't so heavily invested in Canon I would be very interested. Though I do like there Z mount Lens Roadmap, it probably won't be until later next year until we see a 400/2.8 Z 600/4Z and there 200-600 zoom

 

[Skyscraperfan]

I really would love to see native ISO 64 or even lower in a Canon camera. That is the best way to achieve even lower noise. Even im the fake ISO 50 Canon offers the noise levels in the dark areas are so nice, but of course the problem is the blown out highlights. If I had the chance, I would probably use ISO 64 most of the time, if I have enough light,

 

[Hector1970]

Good to see from Nikon. They still have a good base of customers who might upgrade to mirrorless because of it.
They still make good solid gear.
The MP will be interesting. If they go for 50MP and 20 FPS it would be a good compromise.
FPS is definitely a diminishing return, it even clutters up workflow.
Tracking performance will be interesting. It's an area of potential improvement.
The better it is the better the R1 will be.

 

[Photo Bunny]

Good to see from Nikon. They still have a good base of customers who might upgrade to mirrorless because of it.
They still make good solid gear.
The MP will be interesting. If they go for 50MP and 20 FPS it would be a good compromise.
FPS is definitely a diminishing return, it even clutters up workflow.
Tracking performance will be interesting. It's an area of potential improvement.
The better it is the better the R1 will be.

FPS would stop cluttering up the workflow if Apple still made Aperture or stacks came to capture one. Stacks where such a useful feature for handling bursts that it is mad that no one else has implemented it yet. In a burst I want to have them in a stack, quickly edit the base one then flick though the stack with some side by side comparison to pick the image I want and have a button at the end to can the ones that didn't make it to the top.

 

[GoldWing]

Continue reading...

Nikon is very smart here. A sports camera does not need to be 30fps, nor does it have to be 20fps. 15fps is the sweet spot for professional sports.

If they have done what I think they might have..... Canon and SONY should be very worried

 

[Hector1970]

FPS would stop cluttering up the workflow if Apple still made Aperture or stacks came to capture one. Stacks where such a useful feature for handling bursts that it is mad that no one else has implemented it yet. In a burst I want to have them in a stack, quickly edit the base one then flick though the stack with some side by side comparison to pick the image I want and have a button at the end to can the ones that didn't make it to the top.

Yes - good idea actually. I'm surprised Adobe don't include it

 

[Aaron D]

Looks like a wonderful camera, no doubt. But at the risk of sounding like a fanby, what makes the Z9 "...above Canon’s upcoming EOS R3 in the marketplace..." a '9' instead of a '3'?

 

[AlanF]

Looks like a wonderful camera, no doubt. But at the risk of sounding like a fanby, what makes the Z9 "...above Canon’s upcoming EOS R3 in the marketplace..." a '9' instead of a '3'?

The Z9 is ~50 Mpx vs 30.1 Mpx for th R3 so it's a rival to the Sony A1 whereas the R3 is competing with the Sony A9 II, which matters to those who have different Mpx requirements.

 

[Mr Majestyk]

I have tried the R5 aye and the R6 with an adapted 100-400. I have also tired a A9 (not A1) and the stacked sensor had a much faster refresh that felt more like a DSLR when it came to keeping up with the subject. I can get BIF with my Z6 too, I just adjust mentally how many ms behind the EVF is. I'll note to clear up confusion, I am not taking about the AF tracking keeping up with the subject, I am talking about the EVF keeping up and I feel the next 2-3 pro bodies will focus on having less and less EVF latency as a differentiator between them and the R5 level bodies.

EVF lag is down to refresh rate, 60Hz is rubbish, 120HZ helps a lot but when we get 240Hz it'll be non issue. Not sure when we'll get high res high refresh EVF's, but the trouble is battery life goes down as EVF res and refresh increase. Maybe we can get LPTO type OLED EVF's in cameras one day.

 

[slclick]

At first glace, cludgy. The R3 by comparison looks svelte.

 

[Photo Bunny]

EVF lag is down to refresh rate, 60Hz is rubbish, 120HZ helps a lot but when we get 240Hz it'll be non issue. Not sure when we'll get high res high refresh EVF's, but the trouble is battery life goes down as EVF res and refresh increase. Maybe we can get LPTO type OLED EVF's in cameras one day.

EVF lag isn't just refresh rate sadly. It is also highly dependent on sensor readout. Now we already have 240hz EVF's, but there are diminishing returns from there as going past 240hz. But that is only the refresh and currently it is behind, like watching a video recording of what was there. It is a smooth recording, but its is still a recording behind real life. Stacked sensors start to push us towards not only faster frame times, but also closer to a real time feed as they pump out the data quicker.

 

[John Wilde]

It doesn't impact functionality, but I think the R3 looks a lot nicer than the Z9. The R3 has a rounded aerodynamic look to it, and I like the look of the dimpled texture. The Z9 is boxy, with a flat top plate, and a boxy EVF.

 

[Photo Bunny]

It doesn't impact functionality, but I think the R3 looks a lot nicer than the Z9. The R3 has a rounded aerodynamic look to it, and I like the look of the dimpled texture. The Z9 is boxy, with a flat top plate, and a boxy EVF.

I guess design is in the eye of the beholder. To me the Z9 looks vintage and in a good way. It looks great. The R3 looks like a fat mushroom and the EVF hump looks too small like a 1Dx that started melting in the sun. Though, I'll take ether or both depending on the lenses I can shove on them.

 

[PerKr]

Nikon typically has been as good or better than Canon in DSLR AF, so given the time since their first mirrorless offering, I'm very optimistic that this camera's AF will be on the same level or better than Sony's a1 effort. It may "only" do 20fps, but if it's able to do so consistently without all the caveats required to get 30fps with the Sony, that will be more than satisfactory for me.

I'm a bit concerned about the size. I like the pro-integrated-grip body, but I don't want anything as big as the D6. It strikes me that Canon has hit the Goldilocks size with the R3. It's not too small and definitely not too big. If the Nikon is close, it could be a big winner.


Hmm, consider most rumor sites think that Canon is almost ready to announce, a Nov-Dec release date provides little incentive to move up the Canon announcement. I suspect Canon will announce when the camera is ready and there is a sufficient supply regardless of what Nikon does.

Yes, Nikon had AF figured out slightly better in the DSLR days. I do think Canon have the superior AF tech though with dual-pixel and soon probably quad-pixel AF.

It depends what that 20 FPS is. 20 FPS mechanical and silent would put it above the A1 in my book and past the D6 and 1Dx3 it competes with. The A9 also is often 15 FPS or less depending on lens. It is well ahead of the R5 just by having a stacked sensor, unless they bugger up their processor big time the Z9 (And R3) will be night and day difference from the R5 when it comes to tracking stuff in the EVF and blackout free shooting. Nikon's main mountain to climb is really animal AF and car/bike AF. Apparently they have been working on a new object AF system, so perhaps they are training their AF to pick up all kinds of subjects. Maybe we'll see some of that in FW 2.0 for the mark ii cameras.

This is a good point about Sony's claimed framerates. When the A9 came out, I remember being amazed at the speed and black-out free viewfinder (which isn't a huge deal with an OVF but more so with EVF's at the time) and then pissed about the limitations in what lenses could achieve those framerates. Sony apparently wanted to show people they had the biggest cripple-hammer there as it would have been easy to force a given aperture or stopped down shooting with potential AF loss for those lenses unable to keep up with the aperture actuation speeds required. Even with the 500/8, which doesn't even have an adjustable aperture, you're still limited to 15fps on the A9mk2. Similarly poor limitations with the A1 it seems. It's absolutely ridiculous and one reason I don't really want to move from A-mount to E-mount

 

[Photo Bunny]

Yes, Nikon had AF figured out slightly better in the DSLR days. I do think Canon have the superior AF tech though with dual-pixel and soon probably quad-pixel AF.

Very much agreed that this is the strongest win for Canon compared to Sony and Nikon. Canon's dual pixel AF just seems more logical than having a AF grid in front of the sensor. But in real world applications this hasn't seemed to have given Canon's AF any appreciatable lead in accuracy or speed.

 

[Billybob]

I guess design is in the eye of the beholder. To me the Z9 looks vintage and in a good way. It looks great. The R3 looks like a fat mushroom and the EVF hump looks too small like a 1Dx that started melting in the sun. Though, I'll take ether or both depending on the lenses I can shove on them.

Yes, both Z9 and R3 (intentionally?) take design cues from their DSLR predecessors. Like you, lens offerings will likely determine which camera I adopt. However, I am a bit concerned about the Z9 size. I like the unibody design but not the bulk of the DSLR all-in-one bodies. The R3 is in the "Goldilocks" zone--not too big, not too small. The Z9, by contrast, looks like it will be somewhat bigger. Definitely smaller than the D6 but probably significantly larger than the R3. I'll have to try out both to decide which I prefer. But of course, if one company comes out with a 600mm DO/pf, then I won't worry about body size.

 

[John Wilde]

Hard to invest big dollars in a struggling company. Nikon is 5th in mirrorless market share. Even less than Olympus who gave up and sold its camera division. I hope Nikon pulls it off and does well.

Nikon forecasts that their Imaging division will make a small profit this fiscal year, which is a step in the right direction. Their next batch of financial results will be released on August 5.

 

[Photo Bunny]

Hard to invest big dollars in a struggling company. Nikon is 5th in mirrorless market share. Even less than Olympus who gave up and sold its camera division. I hope Nikon pulls it off and does well.

The Sony camera division has been on the chopping block twice with investors demanding it spun off or shut down, but it is still going. Nikon have done a lot of big write offs in the last couple years as they downsize which shows up as big negatives, yet they have enough in the bank to release three flops in a row or more and still recover. Their R&D budget is still huge for the size of company. The only stable camera company is Canon just now, but I wouldn't count out Sony or Nikon yet. If Nikon are *******, it'll be 2030 before that take affect and you can sell of anything Nikon for your replacements.