The one thing Apple understands is photography

Here is something else to consider...

For Enterprise, compare a broken/damaged Mac laptop with a Thinkpad.

The Thinkpad is built to mil-spec durability standards. You can pour coffee on the keyboard and keep typing while it drains through to the bottom. If you break something on it, it can be disassembled in a few minutes by a trained IT staffer and repaired within the hour if the parts are on hand. (I changed a broken screen on a T420 in about 20 minutes for a client.) Everything is accessible and replaceable.

Contrast that with a mac. Nothing can be upgraded or repaired on a mac, not even the battery. It can't be opened easily and opening it will void its warranty and there are no parts available anyway. Even if repair is possible it will have to be sent off for however long it takes.

How does a mac benefit Enterprise if Apple's answer for repair is to just buy another one? What happens to the configuration? Software? Data? What is the ROI when a broken mac gets replaced several times due to a sales rep that travels 200+ days a year? Thinkpads are built to handle that type of abuse. I'm sorry but macs are not. Please don't tell me that they are.
 
Upvote 0
neuroanatomist said:
RustyTheGeek said:
What part of the IT dept do you work in?

With all due respect to my IT colleagues and the necessary jobs they do...I think I'd shoot myself first. ;)

I often wonder how Tax Accountants feel. How could anyone be a tax accountant !?! (Or Wedding Photographers !!) Then I realize that they probably feel the same way about IT guys. :D
 
Upvote 0
RustyTheGeek said:
neuroanatomist said:
RustyTheGeek said:
What part of the IT dept do you work in?

With all due respect to my IT colleagues and the necessary jobs they do...I think I'd shoot myself first. ;)

I often wonder how Tax Accountants feel. How could anyone be a tax accountant !?! (Or Wedding Photographers !!) Then I realize that they probably feel the same way about IT guys. :D

I think if I were a tax accountant, a bullet would not suffice. I'd delve into nuclear physics as a hobby so I could devise a way to blow myself to component atoms. ;)
 
Upvote 0
A large number of our computers at work are lab computers. Personally, I have built up about 300 of them.... The reasons why they are not apple are:

1) Rackmount. game over!
2) Space for a couple of DSP cards..... GAME OVER!
3) heavy duty power supply to power DSP cards....
4) space inside chassis to mount extra components....
5) several 120mm fans for cooling....
6) hot swappable hard drives....
7) RAID arrays
8 ) Some machines require dual high end video cards for GPU processing.....
9) multiple gigabit (or 10G) interfaces
10) custom and/or specialized hardware
11 ) some are data loggers..... and I defy you to fit 8 4TB hard drives into your MacBook Air.....

and with the exception of replacing a few fans and a couple dozen hard drives, NONE of the machines I have built have failed. Because of the RAID arrays, no hard drive crashes have brought down a machine.....

So as well as not understanding photography, they do not understand computing. What they do understand is marketing to consumers at the low to middle user range and are woefully inadequate for high end users...
 
Upvote 0
Don Haines said:
A large number of our computers at work are lab computers. Personally, I have built up about 300 of them.... The reasons why they are not apple are:

1) Rackmount. game over!
2) Space for a couple of DSP cards..... GAME OVER!
3) heavy duty power supply to power DSP cards....
4) space inside chassis to mount extra components....
5) several 120mm fans for cooling....
6) hot swappable hard drives....
7) RAID arrays
8 ) Some machines require dual high end video cards for GPU processing.....
9) multiple gigabit (or 10G) interfaces
10) custom and/or specialized hardware
11 ) some are data loggers..... and I defy you to fit 8 4TB hard drives into your MacBook Air.....

and with the exception of replacing a few fans and a couple dozen hard drives, NONE of the machines I have built have failed. Because of the RAID arrays, no hard drive crashes have brought down a machine.....

So as well as not understanding photography, they do not understand computing. What they do understand is marketing to consumers at the low to middle user range and are woefully inadequate for high end users...

All sounds good except for who would ever want to put 8 4 TB HD into a Macbook AIR!! Does not make sense to me. :)
 
Upvote 0
martti said:
RustyTheGeek said:
That's all great martti, thanks for the great info about some good phone camera apps. But I fail to see how Apple should get credit for understanding photography based on those points. It sounds like it's the 3rd party apps that impressed you and those apps are available for android and other phones as well. Having a camera in a phone and a phone being multi-functional is pretty standard and it was standard before Apple even started making phones.

Without Apple there would be no Android. These apps would not exist if not for the market created by Apple's devices. Yeah "pretty standard"...sure. Whatever. Apple might lose their market share but the camera makers already did lose the point and shoot market to the smartphones. Do you actually remember how the Palm devices failed when they tried to accomodate cellular phone in their personal data manager? Do you remember how the Blackberry lost their game...how Ericsson went out of business and got sold to Sony like Nokia got sold to Microsoft?

Samsung stole industrial secrets and bought people from Apple and that's how they got Android going with their brain power and Google's money. But well, what's the point. It is more fruitful to discuss the size of Allah with Sunni extremists than devices with the fanboys and the nonfanboys.
Keep your opinions. Dogs bark, caravan advances.
I'm pretty sure that Symbian was around before any Apple iOS devices.
 
Upvote 0
martti said:
point and shoot market to the smartphones. Do you actually remember how the Palm devices failed when they tried to accomodate cellular phone in their personal data manager?

Actually the Treo line was quite popular in business in the early 2000s. I got a Handspring (later re-merged into Palm) Treo 270 in 2002 running PalmOS and it was one of the firsts true, real smartphones. Most of my friends/colleagues then didn't like it because 1) It was too large (smaller than any actual 5" phones) 2) Too expensive (comparable to an actual iPhone) 3) It wasn't a Nokia (then the you-must-buy-to-feel-good brand) 4) smartphones weren't fashionable yet because there weren't Facebook, Whatsapp and Youtube.
PalmOS did work well, and it had a very large availability of "apps" - just, it was too early, people didn't want expensive smartphones yet. Mostly business users, which later moved to Blackberry, until Apple became the new fashion.
Palm also make the mistake of making a lot of confusion, first making devices with both PalmOS and Windows Mobile, then introducing a new OS ill named WebOS - killing the app market and making users wonder if it worked only with an Internet connection.
 
Upvote 0
From what I read, Treo was not very reliable. I never had one. For work, in my opinion the PalmV was the best concept ever. I have tried to match its functionality ever since with things like the Nokia 9300 and N81, not succeeding. The French had sabotaged the 9300 with an AZERTY-keyboard which requires that you push 'shift' at the same time as you tap the numbers. Pretty useless for spread sheets and stuff. It needed some German-made plugins to sync with Mac. The Sony-Ericsson touch screen phone was not reliable. I think it was a Symbian with touch-screen extras. The three examples I tried were totally uselesss for somebody who needs to be reachable 24/24.

Whatever, when I got my first iPhone, I realized that the times have changed. Instead of having my music on iPod I had everything on the iPhone. At that time I did not think much of the camera which took a big step forward only in version 4S. The most important point with the iPhone had running for it against the rest was that it was pretty, it was entertaining (games, gizmos) and it had a very high snob factor. People needed PalmV but they wanted the iPhone. The market exploded. Apple had problems delivering enough phones to the consumers and did not know what to do with all the money so they just kept it.

After a negative incident with the local Apple repair shop, I switched to Galaxy. Again, the French had sabotaged the OS with their particular sauces so it had to be flashed (Odin) to a more recent Android. This worked fine, only that the phone thought it was in China...it took a bit of tweaking which I found interesting. There is a community of fanatics who love to share.

The Galaxy did not shine as a camera. Then it started to heat and emptied its battery in a few minutes...well...after warranty expired, of course. I got a Sony and it bricked one week before the warranty expired. Sony is bad with interfaces, also. The camera was clearly inferior to iPhone 4S. After it bricked for the third time after 'repair' I got an HTC which is a solid thing but the camera has a bad problem with highlights.

Which took me back to iPhone again for the fourth time. I could have picked Galaxy 6 as well. From what I've read its camera is better and loading music is not as complicated as it is in the Apple world. My iPhone 6+ probably needs a Jailbreak. Maybe.

What about iPad? No self-respecting expert thought it would sell when it was introduced. I tried to replace my laptop with it but failed. At the time things like printing and loading data were complicated issues. Now I have a friend who navigates his boat with an iPad connected to his autopilot. In health care systems iPads can be connected to patient monitoring. With a little extra gadget I can take my ECG and send it to a specialist for analysis...a nice thing to have if you live somewhere in the country with your coronary disease.

And finally, we have Lightroom for iOS, we have applications for time-lapse photography, for astrophotography, for finding the perfect time and spot for your sunsets and full moons...you have wireless tethering and picture transfer through Wi-Fi and remote control through Bluetooth. There is Eye-Fi...just take your pictures in small .jpg also because the transfer is kind of slow.
 
Upvote 0
Wow martti, looks like you've been around the block a few times! Thanks for the detailed account. I salute, appreciate, relate to, sympathize and respect your long path of experience. This is pretty familiar to me as well. I went through a similar experience multiple times with various clients and friends. (I'm usually either the 'paid consultant' or the 'tech-geek buddy expert'.) There are few of these productivity tools I haven't seen at some point. They all had their strong points and problems. Complicated and difficult to get the promised benefits from in one way or another. And add some of the other pieces that you may have missed like making sure the Palm phone device works correctly with various Real Estate apps and services. For quite a while, eSync required the Palm device to sync with another device in order for the realtor to get codes or unlock house key boxes. When that didn't work right, that was fun! (Sort of a mission critical thing for realtors, being able to unlock a house for a potential buyer.)

Add in a little Windows Phone and a lot of Blackberry and we have similar paths. My thing is that I experienced a lot of the same things you did except I thought the iPhone was a very expensive toy in the beginning with the 3G. It lacked almost all of the features of other phones, it cost a lot and when people tried to jailbreak it to get many of the features it lacked, Apple + ATT (with their years long exclusive contract) literally bricked the phones with updates. I was astounded that thousands of buyers tolerated this, actually felt ashamed and went back to the store and bought yet another expensive replacement iPhone instead of rebelling and kissing Apple goodbye by tossing the limited (now bricked) and expensive iPhone in the trash. After all, they just wanted to reclaim functionality that Apple omitted. This is a big reason why I don't buy Apple products. They are not very nice to their customers or the closed ecosystem and app developers that embrace their products. A LOT of iOS app developers lost their shirt when Apple would arbitrarily deny them Apple App Store access (or kick them out with no warning) for literally no reason or explanation. After months of app development on a given app, Apple would put them out of business before they even had a chance. This while other ridiculous FART apps, etc would be on the app store with no problem at all. So honestly, I just didn't want to support that behavior with my dollars.

Besides, I was very happy with my Blackberry. When my wife got the iPhone 4, I watched her for about a year and things seemed to improve with the iPhone and she liked it. Before that, we had both always had the same phone so it was easy to support. So I got an iPhone 4S after my Blackberry finally started giving me trouble (after 3+ years). Wow, what an adjustment. Productivity went down. Email/Messaging went out the window. It became just a read it if I need to but otherwise never use thing. Texting was good as long as I didn't want to attach a picture because iOS still didn't support that. Content consumption was good when I wanted to watch videos, etc which I rarely did/do. Lots of useless game apps was good. Photography was good along with all the app support which was the main reason I decided to try an iPhone. Voice calls were OK but call quality wasn't as good as the Blackberry. I got dropped more.

I was frustrated with a lot of things that Apple simply would not allow to the app developer with iOS. For instance, there was no way to have call alerts anymore if I missed a call. And the iPhone didn't support obscure (sarcasm) media formats like MP3. So all my custom ringtones and music that were in MP3 format were now useless because I didn't want to spend a lot of time converting them to AAC one by one. I also got tired of using the absolutely worst application every made - iTunes - to put files, music or whatever on the phone. Before with the Blackberry (and now Android) all I had to do was connect the Blackberry or just about any other phone to the computer with USB and drag stuff to it like any other external drive. In fact, way after I had moved to Android a couple years later, my wife finally gave up on her iPhone after syncing with iTunes totally wiped her phone of everything and she lost a LOT of important notes, files and other stuff. She was livid. It wasn't the first time I had seen this having supported clients having gone through the same thing with their iPhones. She was amazed at how easy it was to put stuff on her Android phone when she realized iTunes wasn't required anymore.

Most folks that I know or support, after all this time, that either own/use or have moved away from Apple products understand the true nature of Apple's plan. It's about locking you into a closed system that Apple controls for the primary reason of pushing you into buying content and apps from the various Apple stores. The devices are very expensive and Apple makes a LOT of money. Once they see that, regardless if they still use Apple devices, they understand the bigger picture.

I'm not saying Apple devices aren't really pretty, really elegant and don't give a good experience to the user, I'm just saying that I personally think the experience is too expensive and limiting for what Apple charges.

With Apple, it's not just the device, it's the whole experience. That's what most people don't understand.
 
Upvote 0
Blackberries are great...for jam and fruit tarts. Although my current company of 135K employees offers a choice of Mac or PC for a laptop, the only mobile phone they issue is the current iPhone model.
 
Upvote 0
neuroanatomist said:
Blackberries are great...for jam and fruit tarts. Although my current company of 135K employees offers a choice of Mac or PC for a laptop, the only mobile phone they issue is the current iPhone model.

I'm not up on current Enterprise phone preferences and policies. In general, Enterprise IT gravitates toward what is easiest to support for a larger user base and protects the company's assets. For years iPhones were not only incompatible but they were insecure and Apple even got busted for lying about the security they did support. That is now in the past and I can only assume that Apple is a better player and so has gained more acceptance. In addition, the BYOD movement has taken its toll on Enterprise IT and they have caved to a certain degree to reduce the battles they have to fight.

Blackberry was a solid, reliable and secure platform built from the ground up to support Enterprise and enhance productivity and provide real data security that was ahead of its time. It was hard to see it lose market share.
 
Upvote 0
Re: The one thing Apple understands is territory

Rusty the Geek: With Apple, it's not just the device, it's the whole experience. That's what most people don't understand.

There is the Jailbreak cat-and-mouse game...I find it totally idiotic from Apple's part. I mean, the customer has already given his money so why be a pain? I jailbroke two iPhones, one because the 'home'-button had ceased to work and with the hack you just moved its function to the shake sensor. This was before I got the scredrivers from iFixit to change the dead battery. The other one I jailbroke because a friend of mine had received an iPhone as a gift but locked. There was no other way he could use it. What a trouble with the Apple accounts...At that time I was already with Android, the one who thought it was in China.

The most infuriating thing is that you have all the software and hardware there and firmware between the two to make everything work smoothly and seamlessly but you have the territorialim there to sabotage the simplest and most logical solutions. All the phone manufacturers want to put their sauces and dressings on the totally functional Android OS, they make you sign in to accounts and make you remember passwords. Apple is the worst, no question about it. The people behind the monster they call iTunes should have something bad happening to them.

I had my son put all my CD:s in my iTunes library once. I could not get them on my new iPhone until I reinitialized the phone. There was no way. I even tried with a hack app but no. After having an Android with an extra memory card this was a totally unexpected 'user experience'.

I sort of expected that once Steve Jobs (may he rest in peace) was out of Apple, they'd start cutting open the Gordion's knots he was so fond of. This was the expectation I had when I got the iPhone 6+. Unjustified, as it is starting to look. What surprises me is that they do allow Deezer and Spotify on the phone even though they have their own Apple Music that they are pushing down our throats with monkey's rage.

Knowing that the latest Samsung's camera is better than the one on iPhone, I still enjoy the ease of both the native camera and the augmented CameraPlus. Probably an Adnroid would have been a more informed choice but –as you rightly pointed out– there is something with Apple that makes their clients forgive stuff that nobody else in the marketplace would ever even try. Well, Samsung...I already have a Samsung microwave, fridge, vacuum cleaner and slate...they are taking over the world. They are pretty darn good with everything they do and totally ruthless with their methods of acquiring information. I find them scary.
 
Upvote 0
Re: The one thing Apple understands is seduction

Rusty the Geek: Blackberry was a solid, reliable and secure platform built from the ground up to support Enterprise and enhance productivity and provide real data security that was ahead of its time. It was hard to see it lose market share.

The big mistake BB and Nokia both made was not understanding that people want colorful amusing toys to play with. Play games, watch videos, listen to music, chat with your friends. If it just so happens that this gizmo can also adapted to emails, has a .pdf reader and converter, an app to read and modify worksheets and texts and add scanned documents and photos to messages, well there you have it. BB and Nokia were ants whereas iPhone was the cricket with a fiddle and a load of tricks in his hat.
 
Upvote 0
Re: The one thing Apple understands is money

My GooglePlay gear crankers are:
"This application is not available in your area" and
"This application is not compatible with any of your devices",
Usually you get around by logging in directly on the developer's site or some other site where you can get the .apk file which is not blocked. Or you can use a VPN.
Certainly iTunes Shop can also do this: "Your iTunes login is for the French iTunes store. This application is not available in France" and there you have no workaround. Or maybe you can create an Apple ID using a VPN with a server in the US. With Apple I haven't tried it yet as I am struggling with my IP to have any connection at all.

Right now I do not know whose connection it is I am using as I lost the DSL and the 3G.
Cloud services are not for this particular country, that's for sure.
 
Upvote 0
Re: The one thing Apple understands is seduction

RustyTheGeek said:
And the iPhone didn't support obscure (sarcasm) media formats like MP3. So all my custom ringtones and music that were in MP3 format were now useless because I didn't want to spend a lot of time converting them to AAC one by one. I also got tired of using the absolutely worst application every made - iTunes - to put files, music or whatever on the phone.

So true! I remember when my niece got an iPod and she asked me to put some songs on it. I spent ages trying to drag / copy and paste files onto it before learning that you just can't do that sort of stuff. My initial itunes experience wasn't very favourable. And while I know how it works now, I still can't warm to the cumbersomeness of it all.

Besides, all of my CDs are saved as FLAC files. Apple doesn't support that format, so I don't support Apple.
 
Upvote 0
Re: The one thing Apple understands is seduction

Hillsilly said:
Besides, all of my CDs are saved as FLAC files. Apple doesn't support that format, so I don't support Apple.

Ah... another audiophile! Good ole lossless FLAC. Yeah, baby, it's all about the quality! Sort of the RAW file for music, eh? Over my lifetime (and years with eBay) I've collected thousands of CDs. Some of them were lost over time after being sold so I embarked on a project to rip them all to FLAC in 2004 so I wouldn't lose them when they were sold. Since I'm an IT guy, I had a lot of computers laying around at the time so I set them all up to rip to a server. I could rip about 10+ CDs at a time all to FLAC + CD info + album art from the Internet. With Media Monkey I could easily convert FLAC to MP3 at any bitrate I liked plus catalog and database them all too. The project grew as I even borrowed CDs from friends and planned on having a huge database that everyone could (secretly) access over the web together via FTP. I thought I had it all figured out.

Until I later discovered over about a 6 month period that I couldn't connect to an iPod consistently with Media Monkey for more than a few days/weeks before it stopped working. Ugh, more time invested in working the problem only to find out that Apple actively broke/sabotaged/poisoned/blocked/etc any attempts for other music software to connect to the iPod. Every time Apple broke it, Media Monkey had to reverse engineer the problem and issue an update. That could take weeks. So I suspended the project due to other time demands (growing kids, work) and disgust. I honestly didn't want to use other music players and most of my friends didn't either so I just decided to wait and see if things improved over the years. The project was technically a success but could never be easily utilized with an iPod in a simple way because of Apple. Someday I'll consider resurrecting the project I guess when time permits. Online streaming is now making it a bit moot except for the high quality aspect which is why I started it in the first place.

In the end, that project illustrated quite well how, yet again, Apple was all about making money in a closed system they controlled with an iron fist, not serving their customer base.

Oddly, another thing Apple doesn't understand is people's love of their music collection. Instead, Apple understands how to make seductive proprietary player devices that only consume music content easily that they sell. Don't you know that they HATE online competition like Spotify, Pandora, Songza, NetFlix, et al? And I wonder what part of the motivation was for them? Hmm?
 
Upvote 0
I'll have to check out MediaMonkey.

I've got some catching up to do - I've only got about 800 CDs. Currently the files are on a NAS which I access via Volumio on a Raspberry Pi (with a nice little DAC attached). Or Foobar if I'm in a PC mood. I wouldn't call myself an audiophile as I'm too much into DIY speakers, amp, preamp etc. Although it sounds good to me.
 
Upvote 0