The Unthinkable: Swapped out 5D3 for 6D

[RLPhoto]

I am assuming you are happy with these ?

Was that a statement or question? Yes, I'm happy with those photos

I was wondering why you posted them in this thread..... shots like these could have been taken with a 6D you decided to use an outer focus point which is fine but you could have quite easily used the centre point either with BBF or not!!

Really? Mind posting a few images?

Okay I was trying to be civil, I was wondering what point you were trying to make posting mediocre images in this thread!! Was it to illustrate how superior you think the 5D3 is because if it was i think you failed miserably!!

XD that's cute, with your little tantrum. I'd re-read what you just wrote because its ludicrously funny.

Calling someone else's images mediocre while raising yourself with no images makes you look very bad and of sub-par IQ. ;D

I have posted superior images to those in the appropriate thread and they were taken with a 6D, I did not post them and try to make a silly point on someone elses post!! But hey if you are happy with them then good luck!!

You haven't posted any photos on CR. Your attachments bin is empty. XD quite hilarious. perhaps we can see your photos because after all these photos are "mediocre" to your high standards.

Please link us to the threads because perhaps you posted from flickr.

I went into the 6D Sample images post and type in my name, here is a link.... http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php/topic,11600.msg301685/topicseen.html#msg301685

I saw nothing that couldn't be done on a Canon d30, why do you need the 6Ds superior AF system?

 

[CarlTN]

Part of producing great IQ is auto focus accuracy. The 5D3's AF accuracy is overall, superior. The 6D is also worse in flash sync speed. The 6D's IQ is not better than the 5D3's by any measureable amount. So...

I cannot think of any reason that if you already had a 5D3, you'd gain anything by selling that, and getting a 6D. Starting with the 6D is a great decision, because it's a great camera. But even for things that are great, there is always something better. Going from a 5D3 to a 6D would be a net loss.

At high ISO, the 6D does have a measurable improvement over the 5D III. It isn't huge, we aren't talking about anything along the lines of the D800's ISO 100 gap, by any means. But in the cases where clean high ISO performance is useful, such as astrophotography, I would pick the 6D over the 5D III any day (assuming, that is, that I picked a DSLR...for truly serious astrophotography, I'd probably get something like this: QHY11 11mp FF Monochrome CCD ;D)

Thank you for at least clarifying this. However, you seem to disagree with it when I say it...

I only disagree with you when you say the 6D is better overall than the 5D III...which I believe you have said a few times, in as many words. ;P

No, don't think I have. I said I think it's an overall better value than the 5D3. I certainly like it better than the 5D3, so to me it's the better camera. That's my opinion. Someone else who makes more money from their photography than me, and who specifically needs the 5D3, might think of the 5D3 as a good value also. If all I did was brightly lit sports photography with a 300 f/2.8 ii, then certainly I would have to buy a 5D3, or 1DX. If I was a wedding photog, I would only use the 6D as my second body. But I would also kill myself pretty quick, because death would be better than that!!

I may rent that lens next, I don't know...I kind of want to try the 400 f/4 DO. I like the idea of handholding such a large lens that only weighs 4.3 pounds. Of course I'd probably still use it on my monopod more than hand-holding...and its IS is only 2 stops. I had wanted to try the Sigma 120-300 f/2.8...either way probably won't rent anything until the early spring.

 

[CarlTN]

Yesterday night I was able to take some pictures at a bar with almost no light. I had my 5D3 with 35mm 1.4L.
I was using an off center point and I was amazed that it was able to focus 80% of the time when I couldn't almost see anything with my eyes! I understand that I wasn't close to EV0 but still I was impressed (ISO was either 25K or 50K , f was set to 1.4, speed 80 to 100 and compensation was at +2/3 stop) OK I wasn't going for a masterpiece but for snapshots with lots of noise. The camera/lens combination delivered. I do not know if 6D could do that (off-center focus under these conditions)...

Frankly I don't believe off center focus was vital in your scenario. Post some of the pictures, to help prove otherwise. Focusing at a distance of 5 feet or more, is not going to make a big difference if you focus then recompose. If the focal plane is less than 5 feet (with the 35mm lens), then I could see requiring the off center focus points. But focusing accurately 80% of the time, is not as good as focusing accurately in low light 100% of the time with the 6D's center point, then recomposing. And don't quote the above out of context without this part: For that particular lens, it's likely the 5D3 is a better overall match, especially if you must use AF points outside the center. But as you said, in low light, the 5D3 has some trouble...missing focus for 20% of the shots.

80% = About 8 pictures out of 10 since I could not even see where I was focusing with my eyes! In these 2 attempts the camera had refused to focus, it didn't focus inaccurately. Simple as that. And yes I was that close. Plus there was movement in the dark.

Gotcha...but if you need to focus on things you can't even see through the viewfinder, the 6D's center point is always going to achieve focus...usually quite accurate as long as you use multiple half press. If you're just swinging the camera around and running here or there or something, in the dark...and don't take the extra time to make sure the focus is right...then you should be glad you got any usable shots at all.

I was pointing the outer focusing at the face towards the eye and even if I missed it by little it was much better than ruining the composition by trying to use the center focus point at the eye or keeping the composition and using the center point to focus somewhere else.

You have such a strong opinion for a situation you weren't in front - and true I hadn't described 100% because I never thought I had to - that apart from a Canon super expert you seem to behave like a psychic or something :

My mind can take me places, just tried to envision the situation. Not a psychic. I'll take you at your word...but unless you tried the 6D in the exact same situation, and focus-recomposed, how can you be so sure the focus would not have been as close as it otherwise was? Were the shots all at wide open, f/1.4? You realize there is a bit of focus shift with such lenses, if the aperture is not wide open...because those precious focus points are focusing while wide open. Were you able to get a fast shutter speed? Were the people moving or did they stand still and pose as you shot them?

 

[J.R.]

The 6D works fine with Focus-Recompose if you are shooting stopped down and you have sufficient DOF. When you want to use fast primes wide open, it turns into a serious enough problem.

Consider this, you are shooting a subject at a distance of 5 feet with an 85mm lens at f/1.2. The DOF is 0.54 inches. The same shot taken at f/4 will give you a DOF of 1.81 inches.

So basically you will get by with the slower lenses on a 6D using focus-recompose, shooting wide open won't be so forgiving and the shots will be rendered OOF.

BTW, phase detect AF happens with the lenses wide open so focus shift when shooting wide open is a non-issue really.

 

[Marsu42]

Consider this, you are shooting a subject at a distance of 5 feet with an 85mm lens at f/1.2.

To be fair, the f1.2 dof is a challenge for any existing Canon af system because even the 5d3/1dx af points aren't spread far enough so there is no need to recompose, and this thin dof beats any phase af precision... learning to manually focus on the lens or moving the camera is a good idea, at least with macro shots I know it beats trying to phase af.

 

[J.R.]

Consider this, you are shooting a subject at a distance of 5 feet with an 85mm lens at f/1.2.

To be fair, the f1.2 dof is a challenge for any existing Canon af system because even the 5d3/1dx af points aren't spread far enough so there is no need to recompose, and this thin dof beats any phase af precision... learning to manually focus on the lens or moving the camera is a good idea, at least with macro shots I know it beats trying to phase af.

I've owned the 85L for a grand 3 days now and so far, I've found it to work pretty accurately on the 5D3. I'd guess the focusing would be even better on the 1DX.

It's a challenge on the 6D though and I'd like to use a tripod and live view for shooting with this lens.

I'll do some test shots with both bodies and post the results.

 

[CarlTN]

Consider this, you are shooting a subject at a distance of 5 feet with an 85mm lens at f/1.2.

To be fair, the f1.2 dof is a challenge for any existing Canon af system because even the 5d3/1dx af points aren't spread far enough so there is no need to recompose, and this thin dof beats any phase af precision... learning to manually focus on the lens or moving the camera is a good idea, at least with macro shots I know it beats trying to phase af.

Agree.

 

[CarlTN]

Consider this, you are shooting a subject at a distance of 5 feet with an 85mm lens at f/1.2.

To be fair, the f1.2 dof is a challenge for any existing Canon af system because even the 5d3/1dx af points aren't spread far enough so there is no need to recompose, and this thin dof beats any phase af precision... learning to manually focus on the lens or moving the camera is a good idea, at least with macro shots I know it beats trying to phase af.

I've owned the 85L for a grand 3 days now and so far, I've found it to work pretty accurately on the 5D3. I'd guess the focusing would be even better on the 1DX.

It's a challenge on the 6D though and I'd like to use a tripod and live view for shooting with this lens.

I'll do some test shots with both bodies and post the results.

I definitely would not want to depend on the 6D, especially its outer points, to make the 85L autofocus. It's an unusual lens. I've only tried that lens on my 50D three years ago, and it never autofocused accurately on it, no matter how I adjusted the AFMA, and that was with just center point. I always had to use live view and manual focus on that lens on the 50D. I tried it on my cousin/neighbor's 5D2 at the time, but just focused manually via the viewfinder...and it focused perfectly on it. On my 50D it wouldn't even focus accurately, manually through the viewfinder. My theory on this is that there is a phenomenon I have read about, that occurs because the viewfinder, mirror, and pentaprism are smaller, and the spacing of it all is different than in a full frame camera...I forget what it's called right now.

 

[Marsu42]

I've owned the 85L for a grand 3 days now and so far, I've found it to work pretty accurately on the 5D3. I'd guess the focusing would be even better on the 1DX.

Interesting - do you use af point expansion or single point af? Just looking at the specs, a 5d3/1dx center point shouldn't be better at af'ing than the 5d2/6d if the f2.8 line picks up, but on the other hand everybody states that f1.2 on 5d2/6d is horrible to use and that's why I've given up on the idea to buy such a fast lens... but mostly because focus & recompose from the center point is so tricky.

 

[CarlTN]

Marsu42: "You'd agree to just about anything that indicates that you can just get a 6d instead of a 5d3, don't you ?"

Haha, not necessarily. I really am saying now I would not want to use the 85L on the 6D at all, other than perhaps manual focus. That lens in particular, is just slow to AF and a pain. I wish I would have had rented it when my cousin bought his 1DX, so I could see just what it could do. I sincerely doubt the 1DX can AF all that spectacularly with that lens. The 85L is kind of like trying to marry Lady Gaga, if you're a straight male...she just might be more trouble than she's worth, and I have the wrong plumbing for those times when she craves the other...um...faucet!!

Maybe by the time I can afford a 2DX or 5D5, Canon will introduce a new 85L. But by that time the price for both might be $30k...

 

[J.R.]

I've owned the 85L for a grand 3 days now and so far, I've found it to work pretty accurately on the 5D3. I'd guess the focusing would be even better on the 1DX.

Interesting - do you use af point expansion or single point af? Just looking at the specs, a 5d3/1dx center point shouldn't be better at af'ing than the 5d2/6d if the f2.8 line picks up, but on the other hand everybody states that f1.2 on 5d2/6d is horrible to use and that's why I've given up on the idea to buy such a fast lens... but mostly because focus & recompose from the center point is so tricky.

I use both AF point expansion as well as single point AF. I've taken a fair few shots of my daughters with the corner AF points with a pretty good hit rate. For the 5D3, the 85L falls in group-A where you have the additional 20 cross type AF points (f/4 vertical and f/5.6 horizontal) enabled (see blue focus points in below image).

The images which were out of focus were more because of my poor technique than the gear. I've found rocking back or forward ever so slightly when shooting with very limited DOF will render the shot OOF.

Same goes for situations where the subject is in motion. I had a hell of a time last night trying to shoot my 1 year old niece in very low light - she was seldom still and I got plenty of OOF shots shooting wide open - stopping down to f/2 and more increasing the DOF improved the images.

As far as I am concerned, the 85L focuses excellently with the outer points on the 5D3 unless it is user error and/or subject is in motion. "Sincere" doubts over its focusing ability without having tested the combo are obviously unfounded.

I've also heard (maybe someone can confirm if I am correct) that the 85L focuses faster on the 1DX. Supposedly, the 1DX supplies additional power to the lens motor which makes it faster.

 

[JohnDizzo15]

Used the 85II on a portrait session yesterday and was getting a pretty high percentage of slight misses on a relatively static subject. I did pretty well with the same lens on my 5D3. Since switching over, the 85II has been pulled out twice for any significant amount of shooting and both times have been tough with regard to getting a lot of misses.

 

[jrista]

Used the 85II on a portrait session yesterday and was getting a pretty high percentage of slight misses on a relatively static subject. I did pretty well with the same lens on my 5D3. Since switching over, the 85II has been pulled out twice for any significant amount of shooting and both times have been tough with regard to getting a lot of misses.

That was why a new AF system for the 5D III was such a highly requested thing. The 6D basically has the same thing as the 5D II, with some of the hidden assist points made visible and selectable. The slight jitter that causes those misses is also present in the 7D's 19pt AF system...it just doesn't sit still between shots...even if the subject is already locked, there is pretty much ALWAYS movement, ever so slight, between every frame. Drives me nuts, and one of the primary reasons a 5D III is at the top of my list for the next piece of gear I get.

 

[TWI by Dustin Abbott]

Used the 85II on a portrait session yesterday and was getting a pretty high percentage of slight misses on a relatively static subject. I did pretty well with the same lens on my 5D3. Since switching over, the 85II has been pulled out twice for any significant amount of shooting and both times have been tough with regard to getting a lot of misses.

I'm going to go out on a limb and assume you have done a proper AFMA with the lens. I haven't used the 85II myself with a 6D or otherwise, but I don't have any issues with the 135L; I get consistent, repeatable results. The 85II should be usable on a 6D; plenty of people were shooting with it on a 5DII, which I can attest had a slightly inferior AF system to the 6D.

 

[Marsu42]

The slight jitter that causes those misses is also present in the 7D's 19pt AF system...it just doesn't sit still between shots...even if the subject is already locked, there is pretty much ALWAYS movement, ever so slight, between every frame.

Of what mode are you talking about - servo af or one-shot with continuous fps?

What I experience on both the 6d and 60d with a thinner dof like on the 100L is that when you re-af at the same point w/o camera movement, the lens will often choose a slightly different focus... and lensrentals says it's even better to af somewhere completely else first as this gives more exact results than slight af corrections.

 

[jrista]

The slight jitter that causes those misses is also present in the 7D's 19pt AF system...it just doesn't sit still between shots...even if the subject is already locked, there is pretty much ALWAYS movement, ever so slight, between every frame.

Of what mode are you talking about - servo af or one-shot with continuous fps?

What I experience on both the 6d and 60d with a thinner dof like on the 100L is that when you re-af at the same point w/o camera movement, the lens will often choose a slightly different focus... and lensrentals says it's even better to af somewhere completely else first as this gives more exact results than slight af corrections.

Either, in the case of the 7D, but it is more pronounced with Servo. This isn't a DOF problem. It happens with all my lenses, wide open or stopped down considerably. I had the problem with my 600/4II when stopped down to f/8 just the other day. For such a long lens like that, DOF is pretty small when you get close enough to a bird to be "frame filling", and even at f/8, the jitter can still result in slight softening of detail that isn't exactly at the plane of focus. I like the 7D, but the AF jitter is the single largest IQ drawback of the camera.

All of my lens are properly AFMAed as well. I've used manual techniques as well as FoCal to calibrate each of my lenses. Even shifting AFMA about 2-3 notches results in a visible change with the 600mm lens, so when the lens is that sharp, slight changes in the focal plane can mean visible changes elsewhere, unless you are downsampling by 2x or more. (When downsampling, it is never really a problem, but I generally print 24x36 and larger, so it really matters.)

 

[JohnDizzo15]

Used the 85II on a portrait session yesterday and was getting a pretty high percentage of slight misses on a relatively static subject. I did pretty well with the same lens on my 5D3. Since switching over, the 85II has been pulled out twice for any significant amount of shooting and both times have been tough with regard to getting a lot of misses.

I'm going to go out on a limb and assume you have done a proper AFMA with the lens. I haven't used the 85II myself with a 6D or otherwise, but I don't have any issues with the 135L; I get consistent, repeatable results. The 85II should be usable on a 6D; plenty of people were shooting with it on a 5DII, which I can attest had a slightly inferior AF system to the 6D.

AFMA'd with Reikan FoCal three consecutive times yielding the same result. Figured it was good enough. I surprisingly have had the same findings as you regarding the 135 on the 6D. Seems to be just fine. But for some reason, the 85II on both occasions has been somewhat unreliable compared to when it was paired with my 5d3. The other ones that have given me the most problems is the 24II and the 24-70II. The zoom wasn't unreliable as far as AF goes, just seemed to hunt noticeably more in and in decent light which was odd. Most the other stuff has been fine.

 

[TWI by Dustin Abbott]

Used the 85II on a portrait session yesterday and was getting a pretty high percentage of slight misses on a relatively static subject. I did pretty well with the same lens on my 5D3. Since switching over, the 85II has been pulled out twice for any significant amount of shooting and both times have been tough with regard to getting a lot of misses.

I'm going to go out on a limb and assume you have done a proper AFMA with the lens. I haven't used the 85II myself with a 6D or otherwise, but I don't have any issues with the 135L; I get consistent, repeatable results. The 85II should be usable on a 6D; plenty of people were shooting with it on a 5DII, which I can attest had a slightly inferior AF system to the 6D.

AFMA'd with Reikan FoCal three consecutive times yielding the same result. Figured it was good enough. I surprisingly have had the same findings as you regarding the 135 on the 6D. Seems to be just fine. But for some reason, the 85II on both occasions has been somewhat unreliable compared to when it was paired with my 5d3. The other ones that have given me the most problems is the 24II and the 24-70II. The zoom wasn't unreliable as far as AF goes, just seemed to hunt noticeably more in and in decent light which was odd. Most the other stuff has been fine.

That is interesting. I wonder if it due to the nature of the newer lenses being optimized for 1DX and 5III AF? I'm actually very surprised at more hunting with the center point, which has (on paper) greater sensitivity to anything else Canon has. I always use single point AF, myself, and in good light I don't have problems with any of my lenses on my 6Ds. And that center point can lock onto just about anything in any light.

 

[JohnDizzo15]

Used the 85II on a portrait session yesterday and was getting a pretty high percentage of slight misses on a relatively static subject. I did pretty well with the same lens on my 5D3. Since switching over, the 85II has been pulled out twice for any significant amount of shooting and both times have been tough with regard to getting a lot of misses.

I'm going to go out on a limb and assume you have done a proper AFMA with the lens. I haven't used the 85II myself with a 6D or otherwise, but I don't have any issues with the 135L; I get consistent, repeatable results. The 85II should be usable on a 6D; plenty of people were shooting with it on a 5DII, which I can attest had a slightly inferior AF system to the 6D.

AFMA'd with Reikan FoCal three consecutive times yielding the same result. Figured it was good enough. I surprisingly have had the same findings as you regarding the 135 on the 6D. Seems to be just fine. But for some reason, the 85II on both occasions has been somewhat unreliable compared to when it was paired with my 5d3. The other ones that have given me the most problems is the 24II and the 24-70II. The zoom wasn't unreliable as far as AF goes, just seemed to hunt noticeably more in and in decent light which was odd. Most the other stuff has been fine.

That is interesting. I wonder if it due to the nature of the newer lenses being optimized for 1DX and 5III AF? I'm actually very surprised at more hunting with the center point, which has (on paper) greater sensitivity to anything else Canon has. I always use single point AF, myself, and in good light I don't have problems with any of my lenses on my 6Ds. And that center point can lock onto just about anything in any light.

This was actually during shoots so I was using all the points without paying too much attention to how often it was the center. Just based on feel/memory though, I don't believe I use the center point much more often than the outer points when composing if at all. I have definitely noticed that the center point has caught focus with a few of my lenses in very low light situations where I think I might have had a little more trouble previously. However, I am finding that doesn't help me all that much as I compose very frequently outside of the center which is probably more of an exhibition of how weak those outer non center points really are.

 

[TWI by Dustin Abbott]

Used the 85II on a portrait session yesterday and was getting a pretty high percentage of slight misses on a relatively static subject. I did pretty well with the same lens on my 5D3. Since switching over, the 85II has been pulled out twice for any significant amount of shooting and both times have been tough with regard to getting a lot of misses.

I'm going to go out on a limb and assume you have done a proper AFMA with the lens. I haven't used the 85II myself with a 6D or otherwise, but I don't have any issues with the 135L; I get consistent, repeatable results. The 85II should be usable on a 6D; plenty of people were shooting with it on a 5DII, which I can attest had a slightly inferior AF system to the 6D.

AFMA'd with Reikan FoCal three consecutive times yielding the same result. Figured it was good enough. I surprisingly have had the same findings as you regarding the 135 on the 6D. Seems to be just fine. But for some reason, the 85II on both occasions has been somewhat unreliable compared to when it was paired with my 5d3. The other ones that have given me the most problems is the 24II and the 24-70II. The zoom wasn't unreliable as far as AF goes, just seemed to hunt noticeably more in and in decent light which was odd. Most the other stuff has been fine.

That is interesting. I wonder if it due to the nature of the newer lenses being optimized for 1DX and 5III AF? I'm actually very surprised at more hunting with the center point, which has (on paper) greater sensitivity to anything else Canon has. I always use single point AF, myself, and in good light I don't have problems with any of my lenses on my 6Ds. And that center point can lock onto just about anything in any light.

This was actually during shoots so I was using all the points without paying too much attention to how often it was the center. Just based on feel/memory though, I don't believe I use the center point much more often than the outer points when composing if at all. I have definitely noticed that the center point has caught focus with a few of my lenses in very low light situations where I think I might have had a little more trouble previously. However, I am finding that doesn't help me all that much as I compose very frequently outside of the center which is probably more of an exhibition of how weak those outer non center points really are.

This little discussion may be key to at least some of the varying opinions on the AF of the 6D. I think it depends on one's shooting style. I tend to be a little more deliberate in my approach, and, frankly, the 6D works for me. I can't remember the last time I let a camera automatically select the AF point. I have had my most successful year commercially shooting 6D bodies exclusively. I don't have any problems at weddings and events, myself, but I do know my gear pretty well. IQ trumps all for me, and the 6D delivers as well or better than any other current Canon option.

But I have never recommended the 6D to those who shoot sports or a lot of action. They need a more robust AF. If they are a less deliberate shooter or prefer to use zones/auto AF the 6D may not serve them as well either because its AF points are not spread out super wide and there aren't that many of them.