The Unthinkable: Swapped out 5D3 for 6D

[Marsu42]

You're right then, I don't see why the center point isn't a "full cross point" at f/2.8. I thought it was.

Bin-go! The 6d af is about the same as 5d2 with some of the "invisible" points converted to selectable points and some other points dropped. Both cameras do. not. have. a. full. center. cross. point... it's just an overlay line @f2.8, and when this fails to lock it falls back to the cross point at only f5.6 precision, meaning you will get micro-misses with a fast lens.

Unfortunately, the strange 5d2/6d af idea is *not* a double cross (cross f2.8, 45-degree cross overlay f5.6) as just about on every other camera, Rebels to 5d3. If the 6d *would* have just *one* double cross, I'd be completely sold and never complain again ... but with a f2.8 lens you realize there is an actual problem.

 

[CarlTN]

You're right then, I don't see why the center point isn't a "full cross point" at f/2.8. I thought it was.

Bin-go! The 6d af is about the same as 5d2 with some of the "invisible" points converted to selectable points and some other points dropped. Both cameras do. not. have. a. full. center. cross. point... it's just an overlay line @f2.8, and when this fails to lock it falls back to the cross point at only f5.6 precision, meaning you will get micro-misses with a fast lens.

Unfortunately, the strange 5d2/6d af idea is *not* a double cross (cross f2.8, 45-degree cross overlay f5.6) as just about on every other camera, Rebels to 5d3. If the 6d *would* have just *one* double cross, I'd be completely sold and never complain again ... but with a f2.8 lens you realize there is an actual problem.

What's the difference between an "overlay line" and a "cross"? You're saying one of the lines of the cross is larger than the other? One is an f/2.8 line, the other an f/5.6 line? And they're at 90 degrees from each other, and cross at a point?

 

[jrista]

If all you shoot is your family and it's still portraiture, the 6D will be SUPERIOR to the 5D3 for most scenarios. Not all, but most.

Oh my, I won't get into an argument with you, but this is sooooo unreasonable - with a faster lens like f2.8 which you'll often use for portraiture, the 6d's center point is non-cross, meaning you carefully have to focus on an appropriate contrast part or you'll get af (micro)-misses. The bit of 6d less noise (if any) certainly doesn't compensate for that.

Agreed. It is these kinds of comments, that the 6D is superior to the 5D III "for most scenarios", that is so wrong. The 6D is superior "technically, in a FEW areas", but in EVERY respect and in every scenario, the 5D III is the superior camera that will perform superiorly and produce better images.

 

[JohnDizzo15]

If all you shoot is your family and it's still portraiture, the 6D will be SUPERIOR to the 5D3 for most scenarios. Not all, but most.

Oh my, I won't get into an argument with you, but this is sooooo unreasonable - with a faster lens like f2.8 which you'll often use for portraiture, the 6d's center point is non-cross, meaning you carefully have to focus on an appropriate contrast part or you'll get af (micro)-misses. The bit of 6d less noise (if any) certainly doesn't compensate for that.

Agreed. It is these kinds of comments, that the 6D is superior to the 5D III "for most scenarios", that is so wrong. The 6D is superior "technically, in a FEW areas", but in EVERY respect and in every scenario, the 5D III is the superior camera that will perform superiorly and produce better images.

Definitely agreed regarding actually making images. I loved my 5d3 for the fact that it made getting the shot easier for me. I am definitely getting more misses and need to be much more mindful of the AF. Did a 4 hour shoot on Friday that would have definitely been easier with the 5D.

Results based on glass used:

24II was off a lot. Not completely. But definitely was not focusing critically most of the time. Yes, it has been run through FoCal with the new body.

24-70II was having a hard time capturing focus at all but was decent when it finally hit.

70-200II worked perfectly. But it was also solely used in the outdoor portion of the event

50L was performed on par with how it was on the 5D just based on memory (surprisingly).

8-15 fine as expected just due to the type of lens

 

[tron]

Yesterday night I was able to take some pictures at a bar with almost no light. I had my 5D3 with 35mm 1.4L.
I was using an off center point and I was amazed that it was able to focus 80% of the time when I couldn't almost see anything with my eyes! I understand that I wasn't close to EV0 but still I was impressed (ISO was either 25K or 50K , f was set to 1.4, speed 80 to 100 and compensation was at +2/3 stop) OK I wasn't going for a masterpiece but for snapshots with lots of noise. The camera/lens combination delivered. I do not know if 6D could do that (off-center focus under these conditions)...

 

[bdunbar79]

Part of producing great IQ is auto focus accuracy. The 5D3's AF accuracy is overall, superior. The 6D is also worse in flash sync speed. The 6D's IQ is not better than the 5D3's by any measureable amount. So...

I cannot think of any reason that if you already had a 5D3, you'd gain anything by selling that, and getting a 6D. Starting with the 6D is a great decision, because it's a great camera. But even for things that are great, there is always something better. Going from a 5D3 to a 6D would be a net loss.

 

[JohnDizzo15]

Part of producing great IQ is auto focus accuracy. The 5D3's AF accuracy is overall, superior. The 6D is also worse in flash sync speed. The 6D's IQ is not better than the 5D3's by any measureable amount. So...

I cannot think of any reason that if you already had a 5D3, you'd gain anything by selling that, and getting a 6D. Starting with the 6D is a great decision, because it's a great camera. But even for things that are great, there is always something better. Going from a 5D3 to a 6D would be a net loss.

My ability to get it done was definitely made easier with the 5D. I also agree that the 5D taken as a whole is a better camera. The AF system is head and shoulders above the 6D. However, as discussed before, it was move which allowed me to maintain similar IQ and put money back in my pocket. I didn't feel like I needed everything the 5D had to offer at the moment. And doing plenty of work with the 6D since has proven that to be generally true (albeit with less ease).

Some say the IQ of the 6D is better. I cannot agree with that. What I can say though is that I do prefer the raw files in post.

Flash sync speed difference is a non point as the difference is beyond negligible in real world use. I'd say the max shutter speed difference would be more of an issue to mention that the sync speed.

Yes, the 6D has been a downgrade. But it has been one that has worked for me regardless. Definitely looking forward to the day the new pro ff bodies are out though.

Again, the reasons I made the move has been documented extensively in this thread along with all my other discoveries. And at this point, I still believe I made the right call.

Again, I do not believe the 6D is > 5D3. In case anyone is unsure of my view on that comparison alone.

 

[jrista]

Part of producing great IQ is auto focus accuracy. The 5D3's AF accuracy is overall, superior. The 6D is also worse in flash sync speed. The 6D's IQ is not better than the 5D3's by any measureable amount. So...

I cannot think of any reason that if you already had a 5D3, you'd gain anything by selling that, and getting a 6D. Starting with the 6D is a great decision, because it's a great camera. But even for things that are great, there is always something better. Going from a 5D3 to a 6D would be a net loss.

At high ISO, the 6D does have a measurable improvement over the 5D III. It isn't huge, we aren't talking about anything along the lines of the D800's ISO 100 gap, by any means. But in the cases where clean high ISO performance is useful, such as astrophotography, I would pick the 6D over the 5D III any day (assuming, that is, that I picked a DSLR...for truly serious astrophotography, I'd probably get something like this: QHY11 11mp FF Monochrome CCD ;D)

 

[Dylan777]

Oh my, I won't get into an argument with you, but this is sooooo unreasonable - with a faster lens like f2.8 which you'll often use for portraiture, the 6d's center point is non-cross, meaning you carefully have to focus on an appropriate contrast part or you'll get af (micro)-misses. The bit of 6d less noise (if any) certainly doesn't compensate for that.

Agreed. It is these kinds of comments, that the 6D is superior to the 5D III "for most scenarios", that is so wrong. The 6D is superior "technically, in a FEW areas", but in EVERY respect and in every scenario, the 5D III is the superior camera that will perform superiorly and produce better images.

Definitely agreed regarding actually making images. I loved my 5d3 for the fact that it made getting the shot easier for me. I am definitely getting more misses and need to be much more mindful of the AF. Did a 4 hour shoot on Friday that would have definitely been easier with the 5D.

Results based on glass used:

24II was off a lot. Not completely. But definitely was not focusing critically most of the time. Yes, it has been run through FoCal with the new body.

24-70II was having a hard time capturing focus at all but was decent when it finally hit.

70-200II worked perfectly. But it was also solely used in the outdoor portion of the event

50L was performed on par with how it was on the 5D just based on memory (surprisingly).

8-15 fine as expected just due to the type of lens

My focus point was the last girl on the right. With 5D III + 70-200 f2.8 IS II, I took almost 200 photos with outer AF point, because I wanted to frame the group & stage. Didn't even miss a single shot. 1st photo at f3.2 and 2nd at f2.8

Not to mention, I was about 150' or more away from stage.

 

[Janbo Makimbo]

I am assuming you are happy with these ?

 

[bdunbar79]

John,

I was not disagreeing with you in regards to the fact that the 6D may have better features for you over the 5D3. Having read what you wrote, I do truly believe that the 6D is a better camera for you. I was more or less arguing against those other posters who were taking it further. Of course, all opinions anyways.

 

[Dylan777]

I am assuming you are happy with these ?

Was that a statement or question? Yes, I'm happy with those photos

 

[JohnDizzo15]

John,

I was not disagreeing with you in regards to the fact that the 6D may have better features for you over the 5D3. Having read what you wrote, I do truly believe that the 6D is a better camera for you. I was more or less arguing against those other posters who were taking it further. Of course, all opinions anyways.

Ahh. Understood. As it stands, the only two features/differences from the 5D I've truly appreciated are the shadows and darks of the raw files and the wifi file viewing option. The wifi controller sucks compared to camranger and the GPS is moot for me as I have no use for it. Otherwise, the AF is my biggie and it is no bueno comparatively (but enough for my needs at the moment). So for now, it will continue to merely good enough.

In re to the "opinions," they are like rectums, we all have one ;D (many of which translate into overreaching blanket statements). But that is the nature of the interwebs I suppose.

 

[JohnDizzo15]

I am assuming you are happy with these ?

Was that a statement or question? Yes, I'm happy with those photos

I am leaning toward a little bit of both? lol

I would be happy with them as well. And I will have to say that framing for me in situations like that will require a little more work or cropping on my part with my new body. I will also probably have to fire off a bunch if I'm using the edge points to make sure I get at least one good hit

 

[Marsu42]

24-70II was having a hard time capturing focus at all but was decent when it finally hit.

That's certainly as disappointment and suggests that this lens is wasted on the 6d as only the 1dx/5d3 can use the new lens af system (lensrentals tested it with this result)... a Tamron with a mediocre af should be a better and less expensive match for the equally mediocre 6d af.

I am definitely getting more misses and need to be much more mindful of the AF.

This would sum up the difference in one sentence, but I do understand everyone "downgrading" or going for the 6d as I did because I'd also feel that the 5d3 is wasted if it either lies on a shelf for most of the week or the superior af capability isn't used in a good portion of the shots.

 

[JohnDizzo15]

24-70II was having a hard time capturing focus at all but was decent when it finally hit.

That's certainly as disappointment and suggests that this lens is wasted on the 6d as only the 1dx/5d3 can use the new lens af system (lensrentals tested it with this result)... a Tamron with a mediocre af should be a better and less expensive match for the equally mediocre 6d af.

I am definitely getting more misses and need to be much more mindful of the AF.

This would sum up the difference in one sentence, but I do understand everyone "downgrading" or going for the 6d as I did because I'd also feel that the 5d3 is wasted if it either lies on a shelf for most of the week or the superior af capability isn't used in a good portion of the shots.

I didn't realize lensrentals had similar findings with the 24-70ii. Will have to look that up. I was shocked to find that it was having trouble at all considering the lighting was not dim.

RE it sitting on the shelf. The 5d was definitely doing exactly that for what seemed like long stretches here and there considering I shoot with the Fuji basically everyday. And for some reason, I've already done three shoots (two of which were rather extensive) since making the swap which caused me to feel the pain of losing the 5d AF even more already. I normally don't do that much paid work in such a short period of time and I probably would have held onto the 5d for just a little bit longer had I known. Too bad I can't see into the future.

But again, jobs were still completed and clients were still pleased which is all I really needed at this point.

 

[Marsu42]

I didn't realize lensrentals had similar findings with the 24-70ii. Will have to look that up.

They didn't say the lens isn't good on 5d2/6d, but that the recent "closed loop" speed & precision improvement of the latest lenses (24-70ii, 70-300L) are currently only used by the 1dx & 5d3 af system... with other cameras you might as well grab a 24-70 mk1 as far as precision goes.

 

[Janbo Makimbo]

I am assuming you are happy with these ?

Was that a statement or question? Yes, I'm happy with those photos

I was wondering why you posted them in this thread..... shots like these could have been taken with a 6D you decided to use an outer focus point which is fine but you could have quite easily used the centre point either with BBF or not!!

 

[CarlTN]

If all you shoot is your family and it's still portraiture, the 6D will be SUPERIOR to the 5D3 for most scenarios. Not all, but most.

Oh my, I won't get into an argument with you, but this is sooooo unreasonable - with a faster lens like f2.8 which you'll often use for portraiture, the 6d's center point is non-cross, meaning you carefully have to focus on an appropriate contrast part or you'll get af (micro)-misses. The bit of 6d less noise (if any) certainly doesn't compensate for that.

Agreed. It is these kinds of comments, that the 6D is superior to the 5D III "for most scenarios", that is so wrong. The 6D is superior "technically, in a FEW areas", but in EVERY respect and in every scenario, the 5D III is the superior camera that will perform superiorly and produce better images.

To be fair to myself (unlike what you all are doing), I did cite where the 5D3 would be superior. Then Marsu quoted it out of context subsequently, and left off the qualifier...attempting to change the meaning of what I said to suit his own ends.

 

[CarlTN]

If all you shoot is your family and it's still portraiture, the 6D will be SUPERIOR to the 5D3 for most scenarios. Not all, but most.

Oh my, I won't get into an argument with you, but this is sooooo unreasonable - with a faster lens like f2.8 which you'll often use for portraiture, the 6d's center point is non-cross, meaning you carefully have to focus on an appropriate contrast part or you'll get af (micro)-misses. The bit of 6d less noise (if any) certainly doesn't compensate for that.

Agreed. It is these kinds of comments, that the 6D is superior to the 5D III "for most scenarios", that is so wrong. The 6D is superior "technically, in a FEW areas", but in EVERY respect and in every scenario, the 5D III is the superior camera that will perform superiorly and produce better images.

Definitely agreed regarding actually making images. I loved my 5d3 for the fact that it made getting the shot easier for me. I am definitely getting more misses and need to be much more mindful of the AF. Did a 4 hour shoot on Friday that would have definitely been easier with the 5D.

Results based on glass used:

24II was off a lot. Not completely. But definitely was not focusing critically most of the time. Yes, it has been run through FoCal with the new body.

24-70II was having a hard time capturing focus at all but was decent when it finally hit.

70-200II worked perfectly. But it was also solely used in the outdoor portion of the event

50L was performed on par with how it was on the 5D just based on memory (surprisingly).

8-15 fine as expected just due to the type of lens

The 5D? You mean the 5D classic? I find that difficult to believe.