There Will be a 4K 5D Camera [CR2]

[jebrady03]

heat dissipation, very high speed recording card, very powerful processor (maybe two cores).

Certainly that increases the cost of production, but it also increases the size of the market. It's absolutely possible that the increased cost is offset by the increased number of units produced and sold. Additionally, there's a possibility that the cost of the unit is actually DECREASED due to the volume sold.

 

[bsbeamer]

Either way, we stills guys need to stop fist banging over video. There's a another, already well-established potential audience of customers out there for Canon who desire DSLR sized cameras for video. Canon would be foolish not to address them in some form or fashion when it would be so easy for them to do it.

The more push they have into the Cinema EOS line, the more pressure it puts to make a DSLR sized camera that can accompany them. I think we are at that point...or at least I hope we are. A $15k C300II, a $6000 C100III, and a 5DC at $3500 is a well rounded 4K line up.

Thank you for stating this. I am one of those "video guys" and it irritates me when I hear people screaming that video is adding unnecessary features/cost to their cameras. Maybe it's time for that audience/market to move to medium format or dedicated high-megapixel DSLR, rather than the 20-25MP range of most of the other DSLR options. If they are that dedicated to stills only, that path makes a lot of sense and the options are already available in the 5DS/5DSR line... but "unfortunately" they still offer 1080/30p video. Maybe release a firmware that removes the video to appease them? Sounds a lot like a 6D replacement to me, if the line continues.

5DMk# line = video and stills
5DS# line = high MP stills

The price points you mention would be nice for the market, but I'm not sure it's a reality at launch. Also have to remember there is a C500 replacement in the works that likely will be $30K+ to compete against RED, Arri and high-end Sony.

 

[docsmith]

Very smart to minimize the overlap, get the 1DX out for 3-6 months before announcing the 5DIV. I am expecting it Fall 2016 or Spring 2017.

As for the 4K video. I am most interested and most happy about this not because of 4K video, but because I want the 5DIV to not be crippled in any way. It should be an elite event photographer camera body. But I am, personally, more interested in all the other elite features (give me 8 fps, exposure linked to AF points, etc).

As for splitting the 5D line....my guess is that the higher up the 5DIII moves, the better this news is for the 6DII and the 6DII becomes more of a 5DIV "light" with 1080p video, more AF points (20-40?), smaller body with lower weather resistance.

That creates a very nice lineup, IMO.

 

[MikeT]

Not being knowledgeable about the internal workings of cameras, forgive me if this is a stupid question... Cost aside, is it possible that inclusion of 4k video forces compromises in the camera design that would not have to be made if 4k were excluded? Or in other words, would a better stills camera be possible if 4k were not required?

 

[crazyrunner33]

Not being knowledgeable about the internal workings of cameras, forgive me if this is a stupid question... Cost aside, is it possible that inclusion of 4k video forces compromises in the camera design that would not have to be made if 4k were excluded? Or in other words, would a better stills camera be possible if 4k were not required?

Not really, some can argue that it will improve the experience for still shooters, especially for action and wild life photography. Simply put, a camera, both photo and video, is just a image sensor with a recording device. Improving the recording device to support higher quality video will not hurt the photo quality. If heat is an issue, improving the cooling of the sensor will help decrease noise.

However, look at what Magic Lantern has done with RAW video. They're not experiencing any issues with overheating as a result of RAW video, even with the 50D, which never shot video in the first place. The only limitation they're experiencing is the write speed, if that wasn't an issue, they would be shooting close to 4K on cameras that were never designed to shoot video.

 

[3kramd5]

Not being knowledgeable about the internal workings of cameras, forgive me if this is a stupid question... Cost aside, is it possible that inclusion of 4k video forces compromises in the camera design that would not have to be made if 4k were excluded? Or in other words, would a better stills camera be possible if 4k were not required?

Forces? Not necessarily. But since for a video rig things like a mechanical shutter, reflex mechanism, PDAF sensor, strobe control, etc. are irrelevant, manufacturers may be tempted to save costs in those areas, resulting in a lesser stills camera.

 

[roxics]

I don't think Canon will split the 5D off into a video version as well. It would make sense on some level but I don't think they'd do it. I think the only reason the 1D C existed is because Canon was getting a lot of input from Hollywood DPs that were using 5D cameras and probably figured they could make a version of their highest end DSLR with cinema features and sell it for a fortune. Which they tried to do. But I don't think they got the response to it they were looking for. Which is why now I don't think we're seeing a 1D C mkII, they've basically just rolled some of those features into the 1D X mkII and called it a day.

That said, I would love to see a 5D C with say a 12MP sensor that did full sensor readout and downsampled to 4K in both DCI spec and UHD. It would be amazing if it also shot compressed raw video at say a 3:1 or 4:1 compression. It would be great if it also had CLog and an XLR adapter and a bunch of other amazing things. But I don't think any of that will happen.

 

[RGF]

I guess I'm just coming to terms with the fact that DSLRs will never have the kind of features we video people desire and they probably shouldn't either, as much as it would be nice. It is a pipe dream to get everything we need for stills and video in a single camera.

Right. And as a 98% stills photographer, I definitely don't want to pay extra for features that I'll never ever use.

The thing is, DSLRs got video features because there's popular demand for that. It makes sense to include just enough video stuff to increase/keep up sales in the consumer/enthusiast segment in an era where an exclusively still camera just wouldn't cut it. Movie features help pay R&D bills, but you hit diminishing returns pretty quickly once you start adding advanced things that fewer and fewer people want - making it necessary to raise prices which in turn would drive away the stills shooters which, like it or not, still are the primary focus group for DSLRs.

The cost of the camera is (most likely) not determine if it support video or not. The price is driven by marketing forces. In the end Canon will include features that fit in the camera (size is limited) and what will drive sales.

I do agree that video is of limited value to me, but I don't expect Canon to omit it because I don't want it.

 

[Cali Capture]

I think it is a telling that the possibility of a another 5D split, (Still pic feature priority/video feature priority) makes sense given the Canon CEO interview a few months ago. He was concerned about the size of the DX, didn't like it, yet he also mentioned the heat and space issue reguarding 4K video. So it seams logical they would split features to give us a great smaller 5D that would excel in 4K, Perhaps very close to DX specs in Video. Then Give us a great Stills 5D that comes close in frame rate, MP (perhaps/likely Higher), DR ect. With the basic philosophy, you can buy a DX Mk II and get it all, with a bigger body! Or, you can buy two 5D's and get the best (for your needs) side of the DX in a 5D body! From all that I've read this makes the most sense for Canon's bottom line and addressing the needs of the consumer.

 

[jeffa4444]

NAB is the second to last full week of April so there's a halfway decent chance the 1DX Mark II will ship prior to. The interesting part about the whole thing is that it was "there will be a 5D with 4K video" hinting the line could split? (i.e. Sony A7S / A7R) - Then again, it already sort of has with the 5DS.

If a 4K version was coming - NAB would be a good spot to showcase.

Ok,so elsewhere there was someone saying that the 5Ds would see an update this year.

Anyone want to bet that the "5D camera that does 4K" will be the update of the 5Ds and *NOT* the 5D Mark IV?

I will add that it would make much much more sense to see a 5Ds Mark II shooting 4K than it would to see a 5D Mark IV doing 4K. High resolution stills, high resolution video.

That would make the statement put out at the time of the 5DS / 5DS R by the senior Canon designer look stupid. He said there was no room for a headphone socket due to space constraints to use USB 3.0 for faster data transfer. A fully fledged 4K DSLR needs a microphone socket and headphone socket as well as HDMI and USB 3.0 so on that basis the body shell would need to be redesigned.

 

[mkabi]

That said, I would love to see a 5D C with say a 12MP sensor that did full sensor readout and downsampled to 4K in both DCI spec and UHD. It would be amazing if it also shot compressed raw video at say a 3:1 or 4:1 compression. It would be great if it also had CLog and an XLR adapter and a bunch of other amazing things. But I don't think any of that will happen.

I'm not trying to pick a fight with you specifically... cause a lot of people say it.
But I have to ask... why 12MP? Just cause Sony did it, doesn't mean that Canon has to copy them...
I mean Panasonic did 16MP in the GH4, granted smaller sensor but still has DCI 4K and UHD, as opposed to UHD only in the Sony.

I'd much prefer 16MP over the 12MP. I wouldn't mind the 18MP recycled from the 1DC... this is if its a 5DC with more video features. I don't expect DPAF, nor 4K @ 60, but 4K @ 24 and 1080/120p and C-log would be nice.

 

[InterMurph]

With a 50MP sensor, it is easier to crop down to an 8K video frame and then encode that for 4K video like Sony do with the A7RII. That sort of 2->1 down-sampling is very light weight.

This is incorrect.

The AR7 II has two 4K video modes: one in which it uses the entire sensor, and one in which it uses an APS-C/Super35 crop in the middle of the sensor.

The former requires more computing horsepower, and the camera does manage to convert the full 42MP sensor into 4K video. But the quality is substantially lower than that recorded in the latter (crop) mode. Just about any video-centric review of this camera will demonstrate this.

The problem seems to be in the immense computing power required to convert the full sensor resolution to 4K video. Or something like that.

But the problem is real, at least on the Sony camera.

 

[symmar22]

IMO the Sony A7 segmentation makes the most sense, I'd like to see the 5D line split into 3 branches :

- 5D4 "Standard" 24-28Mpx, 1080 video.

- 5D4 "Studio/High Res". Nikon got it right with the D810, low pass filter is not needed for such high resolution sensors, most people who buy it want the most sharpness possible, hence the likely disappointing sales of the "vanilla" 5DS. Video features to be determined, but 1080 seems enough.

- 5D4 "Cinema", 16-20Mpx, fully video featured including 4K.

 

[InterMurph]

I mean Panasonic did 16MP in the GH4, granted smaller sensor but still has DCI 4K and UHD, as opposed to UHD only in the Sony.

The GH4's sensor is indeed 16MP, but the entire sensor is not used for 4K video:

As you can see, the sensor is 4,608 x 2,592 pixels (light purple box). But a 4K-wide crop is used in 4K video mode (dark purple box); either 4096x2160 (DCI 4K) or 3840x2160 (UHD 4K).

In HD mode, the entire sensor width is used. But not in 4K mode.

 

[rs]

I guess I'm just coming to terms with the fact that DSLRs will never have the kind of features we video people desire and they probably shouldn't either, as much as it would be nice. It is a pipe dream to get everything we need for stills and video in a single camera.

Right. And as a 98% stills photographer, I definitely don't want to pay extra for features that I'll never ever use.
The thing is, DSLRs got video features because there's popular demand for that. It makes sense to include just enough video stuff to increase/keep up sales in the consumer/enthusiast segment in an era where an exclusively still camera just wouldn't cut it. Movie features help pay R&D bills, but you hit diminishing returns pretty quickly once you start adding advanced things that fewer and fewer people want - making it necessary to raise prices which in turn would drive away the stills shooters which, like it or not, still are the primary focus group for DSLRs.

Which specific video features would increase cost?

heat dissipation, very high speed recording card, very powerful processor (maybe two cores).

If it does everything anyone needs for video, one clear feature that increases cost is the sales tax involved in breaking the 30 min recording barrier.

On the other hand, improved heat dissipation helps long exposure stills photography such as astro. More processing power never hurts (although there's always a balance between cost and performance, and if the extra power comes in the form of a dedicated video encoder chip, it's of no use to stills photographers), and if the 5D IV does ~8fps and has quite a reasonable number of MP, the higher cost of faster cards won't necessarily be a bad thing for stills.

 

[Don Haines]

NAB is the second to last full week of April so there's a halfway decent chance the 1DX Mark II will ship prior to. The interesting part about the whole thing is that it was "there will be a 5D with 4K video" hinting the line could split? (i.e. Sony A7S / A7R) - Then again, it already sort of has with the 5DS.

If a 4K version was coming - NAB would be a good spot to showcase.

Ok,so elsewhere there was someone saying that the 5Ds would see an update this year.

Anyone want to bet that the "5D camera that does 4K" will be the update of the 5Ds and *NOT* the 5D Mark IV?

I will add that it would make much much more sense to see a 5Ds Mark II shooting 4K than it would to see a 5D Mark IV doing 4K. High resolution stills, high resolution video.

That would make the statement put out at the time of the 5DS / 5DS R by the senior Canon designer look stupid. He said there was no room for a headphone socket due to space constraints to use USB 3.0 for faster data transfer. A fully fledged 4K DSLR needs a microphone socket and headphone socket as well as HDMI and USB 3.0 so on that basis the body shell would need to be redesigned.

Yes, but Canon has a lot of clever people. I am fairly sure that they could fit all those connectors onto a camera body.

 

[Besisika]

I do agree that video is of limited value to me, but I don't expect Canon to omit it because I don't want it.

And I think, that is the proper attitude.
And there is the opposite side who wants all possible video features to be on a DSLR. They should take the same attitude as well.
It is a good thing that we express our needs and wants so that they would know and predict how many would be interested, but there should be a balance between the 0% video vs all video whistles and bells.

 

[Don Haines]

I do agree that video is of limited value to me, but I don't expect Canon to omit it because I don't want it.

And I think, that is the proper attitude.
And there is the opposite side who wants all possible video features to be on a DSLR. They should take the same attitude as well.
It is a good thing that we express our needs and wants so that they would know and predict how many would be interested, but there should be a balance between the 0% video vs all video whistles and bells.

I agree!

We can't forget that what we are purchasing is a stills camera that happens to do video.

 

[fallsong]

All I want to know is what will be the DR for 1Dx 2.

With 8 L lens and 2 bodies, my patience is almost running out.

 

[bdeutsch]

<em>“there will be a 5D camera that shoots 4K video”</em>

So then...
5D mark 5? mark 6?

Hahaha...
Sorry, couldn't resist the bad joke.

Bad joke? I don't get it. Is that why it's bad?
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