There Will be a 4K 5D Camera [CR2]

[crazyrunner33]

I do agree that video is of limited value to me, but I don't expect Canon to omit it because I don't want it.

And I think, that is the proper attitude.
And there is the opposite side who wants all possible video features to be on a DSLR. They should take the same attitude as well.
It is a good thing that we express our needs and wants so that they would know and predict how many would be interested, but there should be a balance between the 0% video vs all video whistles and bells.

I'm fine with that. As a producer, I'd just like the video features that are now in the 1DX Mark II backed in for internal recording, along with the menu features that are in Magic Lantern/the GH4, those are reasonable and can easily be implemented through software. Anything extra wanted by video producers can be made through add ons, XLR through the hot shoe like the one Sony offers would be great, the same with the GH4 offering an expansion for SDI.

These requests are perfectly reasonable, the add on options would allow the camera to be still focused with video options, or allow a user to rig it as a video camera. Canon would then be able to make an extra grand or two on those accessories.

 

[RickWagoner]

Yes it will have 4k.


What i am not hearing is anything named 5D which has me puzzled. Either Canon is not going with the name or they are playing this one super close to their chest. Not sure the possibility of Canon not coming out with another 5D this year but if they are usually i would of heard of it by now. They could be in the final pre release stages for it which would mean the only testers on the ground are their ambassadors giving final quality and bug work which is what is done right before the announcement. Ambassadors can keep their mouth shut the best as they always have.

One question i have for you all here is what big trade shows are coming up this year, esp ones that are more video based?

Canon won't announce such a camera without a trade show.


Last year i know there were lots of 6d labeled testers out but they could have been 5D in 6D labeled bodies. Also the 7d3 will be Canons first 4k crop body and its coming in 2017.

 

[3kramd5]

NAB is the second to last full week of April so there's a halfway decent chance the 1DX Mark II will ship prior to. The interesting part about the whole thing is that it was "there will be a 5D with 4K video" hinting the line could split? (i.e. Sony A7S / A7R) - Then again, it already sort of has with the 5DS.

If a 4K version was coming - NAB would be a good spot to showcase.

Ok,so elsewhere there was someone saying that the 5Ds would see an update this year.

Anyone want to bet that the "5D camera that does 4K" will be the update of the 5Ds and *NOT* the 5D Mark IV?

I will add that it would make much much more sense to see a 5Ds Mark II shooting 4K than it would to see a 5D Mark IV doing 4K. High resolution stills, high resolution video.

That would make the statement put out at the time of the 5DS / 5DS R by the senior Canon designer look stupid. He said there was no room for a headphone socket due to space constraints to use USB 3.0 for faster data transfer. A fully fledged 4K DSLR needs a microphone socket and headphone socket as well as HDMI and USB 3.0 so on that basis the body shell would need to be redesigned.

Yes, but Canon has a lot of clever people. I am fairly sure that they could fit all those connectors onto a camera body.

Clever enough to question the value of the N3 (remote trigger) or PC (flash sync) connectors in a video rig, for sure.
Pull one out in favor of headphone support.

 

[Don Haines]

NAB is the second to last full week of April so there's a halfway decent chance the 1DX Mark II will ship prior to. The interesting part about the whole thing is that it was "there will be a 5D with 4K video" hinting the line could split? (i.e. Sony A7S / A7R) - Then again, it already sort of has with the 5DS.

If a 4K version was coming - NAB would be a good spot to showcase.

Ok,so elsewhere there was someone saying that the 5Ds would see an update this year.

Anyone want to bet that the "5D camera that does 4K" will be the update of the 5Ds and *NOT* the 5D Mark IV?

I will add that it would make much much more sense to see a 5Ds Mark II shooting 4K than it would to see a 5D Mark IV doing 4K. High resolution stills, high resolution video.

That would make the statement put out at the time of the 5DS / 5DS R by the senior Canon designer look stupid. He said there was no room for a headphone socket due to space constraints to use USB 3.0 for faster data transfer. A fully fledged 4K DSLR needs a microphone socket and headphone socket as well as HDMI and USB 3.0 so on that basis the body shell would need to be redesigned.

Yes, but Canon has a lot of clever people. I am fairly sure that they could fit all those connectors onto a camera body.

Clever enough to question the value of the N3 (remote trigger) or PC (flash sync) connectors in a video rig, for sure.
Pull one out in favor of headphone support.

like the one with the little headphone signal above the flash sync?

The picture is of the connectors on the side of a 7D2.... and remember, these are still cameras that shoot video, not video cameras that shoot stills. For the primary use, remote triggers and flash sync are important features that should not be given up. That said, the 7D2 layout shows that with the will to do it, you can fit in all the required connectors.

 

[3kramd5]

NAB is the second to last full week of April so there's a halfway decent chance the 1DX Mark II will ship prior to. The interesting part about the whole thing is that it was "there will be a 5D with 4K video" hinting the line could split? (i.e. Sony A7S / A7R) - Then again, it already sort of has with the 5DS.

If a 4K version was coming - NAB would be a good spot to showcase.

Ok,so elsewhere there was someone saying that the 5Ds would see an update this year.

Anyone want to bet that the "5D camera that does 4K" will be the update of the 5Ds and *NOT* the 5D Mark IV?

I will add that it would make much much more sense to see a 5Ds Mark II shooting 4K than it would to see a 5D Mark IV doing 4K. High resolution stills, high resolution video.

That would make the statement put out at the time of the 5DS / 5DS R by the senior Canon designer look stupid. He said there was no room for a headphone socket due to space constraints to use USB 3.0 for faster data transfer. A fully fledged 4K DSLR needs a microphone socket and headphone socket as well as HDMI and USB 3.0 so on that basis the body shell would need to be redesigned.

Yes, but Canon has a lot of clever people. I am fairly sure that they could fit all those connectors onto a camera body.

Clever enough to question the value of the N3 (remote trigger) or PC (flash sync) connectors in a video rig, for sure.
Pull one out in favor of headphone support.

like the one with the little headphone signal above the flash sync?

The picture is of the connectors on the side of a 7D2.... and remember, these are still cameras that shoot video, not video cameras that shoot stills. For the primary use, remote triggers and flash sync are important features that should not be given up. That said, the 7D2 layout shows that with the will to do it, you can fit in all the required connectors.

Yes, the image I was looking at is attached (latest 5D, in which canon said they could not package a headphone jack). Fitting one in a 7D doesn't mean they can fit one in a 5D; you have to look at what else is in there (though they likely can).

They are very important on a stills camera which happens to shoot video, not so much on a video camera which happens to shoot stills (which I perhaps mistakenly thought to be the context of this part of the discussion).

Besides, one could argue that with hotshoe controllers the PC port is largely unimportant anyway, and with wifi the remote trigger largely unimportant.

 

[hne]

One question i have for you all here is what big trade shows are coming up this year, esp ones that are more video based?

NAB in April and IBC in September are very video oriented (with a big broadcast touch, but you'd also find some cinema companies there) that would be rather obvious trade shows to make a big splash with video capable DSLRs but for a 5D series camera you could also argue that WPPI starts next Thursday.

 

[roxics]

That said, I would love to see a 5D C with say a 12MP sensor that did full sensor readout and downsampled to 4K in both DCI spec and UHD. It would be amazing if it also shot compressed raw video at say a 3:1 or 4:1 compression. It would be great if it also had CLog and an XLR adapter and a bunch of other amazing things. But I don't think any of that will happen.

I'm not trying to pick a fight with you specifically... cause a lot of people say it.
But I have to ask... why 12MP? Just cause Sony did it, doesn't mean that Canon has to copy them...
I mean Panasonic did 16MP in the GH4, granted smaller sensor but still has DCI 4K and UHD, as opposed to UHD only in the Sony.

I'd much prefer 16MP over the 12MP. I wouldn't mind the 18MP recycled from the 1DC... this is if its a 5DC with more video features. I don't expect DPAF, nor 4K @ 60, but 4K @ 24 and 1080/120p and C-log would be nice.

Because a 3:2 sensor with a 4240 x 2832 pixel count would require very little cropping on the sides to achieve the 4096x2160 image needed for DCI 4K. Which means three things:

1. You don't need to crop the sensor a lot to get a 1:1 photosite per pixel output.
2. You don't need more processing power to downsample a larger resolution sensor (with full readout) to a 4K image size. Which could increase heat.
3. You don't need to line-skip from a higher res sensor to get a lower res 4K output (which we all know doesn't result in very good video).

Ideally #2 is better if you have the processing power and start with a higher res sensor because then you can get better color out of the image.

 

[Don Haines]

Yes, the image I was looking at is attached (latest 5D, in which canon said they could not package a headphone jack). Fitting one in a 7D doesn't mean they can fit one in a 5D; you have to look at what else is in there (though they likely can).

They are very important on a stills camera which happens to shoot video, not so much on a video camera which happens to shoot stills (which I perhaps mistakenly thought to be the context of this part of the discussion).

Besides, one could argue that with hotshoe controllers the PC port is largely unimportant anyway, and with wifi the remote trigger largely unimportant.

Yes, but if they can fit it on the 7D2, a crop body, they can surely fit it on a full frame body. Saying they couldn't is a very poor excuse. Who knows, perhaps when the 5D4 comes out it will have the 7D2 connector module

As to the sync connector, yes, you can do it through a hotshoe adaptor (and might I add that it works quite well with a studio flash) so getting rid of it would not be the end of the world, but as long as there is space for it, I like it. I haven't used the hotshoe adaptor yet on my 7D2, but if the PC port was not there, I would.

As to remote control, I look forward to the day when all Canons have a decent WiFi interface and you can not only trigger the camera, but properly control it. Even then, there are still times where you need that manual trigger, particularly with astrophotography where you have a tracking head set up and programmed to take multiple exposures.

I think that at the moment we are caught between legacy features that people don't want to give up and a resistance to accept new ways.

 

[nautal]

Could there be a mix up and have a 4D camera with 5K, anyone?

 

[3kramd5]

As to the sync connector, yes, you can do it through a hotshoe adaptor (and might I add that it works quite well with a studio flash) so getting rid of it would not be the end of the world, but as long as there is space for it, I like it.

Yah I like it too. When I do single-light setups it's easier that popping batteries in my triggers. But it is something easily carved out of a video rig.

And yes, I find it very unlikely they couldn't have packaged one on the 5DS.

 

[3kramd5]

And yes, I find it very unlikely they couldn't have packaged one on the 5DS.

What are you trying to show with the picture? An empty space that could have been used or...?

An area where if they tried they likely could have packaged a headphone jack. The PWB looks rather empty and there is free space. The connectors aren't that big, particularly the surface mount variety.

 

[rfd78]

What about this for the 5D line-up?


- 5DS / 5DSR (without 4k video)

- 5DX (the "5D mark IV", with 4k video)

- 5DC (the "6D Mark II", without 4k video)


Since the "6D Mark II" is bound for improvements, probably putting it somewhat similar to the 5D Mark III (some things on par, a few things better and some other things worse?), it wouldn't make sense to keep calling it "6D", so the entry level FF camera would be placed in the 5D family.

 

[Ozarker]

I always thought it is more logical that there will be no overlapping, unlike the previous time. Many people tried to correct me that 5D mark IV will not cannibalize 1-series sales, but I believe Canon will not risk the preliminary orders of 1D X II by announcing 5D mark IV before they are shipped.
This can only mean that the new 5D will be awesome, at least I hope so ;D

Hilarious. Thinking that a 1 or two week span of release vs. announcement will hurt sales of the 1DX Mark II. Why is there always the assumption that the 1DX Mark II is the profit center the 5D Mark IV could never be? Because the 1D costs more at retail? Selling a single 1DX II that may profit at $600 each vs selling 10/ 5D IV that profit at $300 each is how money is made.

Retail price means little as to profit and even less to overall margins. (reference rebadged Sony cameras with the Hasselblad logo)

Volume of sales is where it is at. Canon is not worried about these two cameras cannibalizing each other.

I agree that the new 5D IV will be an awesome camera, but the idea that it will hurt 1D II sales is just silly.

Flagship status does not necessarily = more profitable product line. The volume of sales of the 5D line probably eats the lunch of the 1DX line everyday and Sunday too.

Guys deciding between a 1DX Mark II vs 5D Mark IV are probably rare exceptions in the market between these two cameras.

Canon risks nothing with overlap. Overlap is already built in. A month or two difference (even 6 months) between releases isn't going to amount to a hill of beans.

 

[Tugela]

Whether the 5D will or won't get 4K is a non event. Whatever they do, it will be at best the same implementation as the 1DXM2. A new processor is not going to magically appear, so they will be stuck with the limitations of the current Digic ones.

 

[Pebbles]

This is exactly it. Even if there is a 5D with 4K, it will be the same low quality compressed crap the 1DX has. Perhaps Magic Lantern will eventually give us access to RAW, perhaps not, but on release we will have crappy 4K.

 

[mb66energy]

Whether the 5D will or won't get 4K is a non event. Whatever they do, it will be at best the same implementation as the 1DXM2. A new processor is not going to magically appear, so they will be stuck with the limitations of the current Digic ones.

What if the sensor design allows for less processing power? Then a current digic sensor maybe can handle larger bandwidth/better quality.

I see
5D S for high res
1Dx ii for fast action
5D ii for medium fast action with high quality and medium (30MPix) resolution and maybe great video quality
(a universal instrument for the production of visual material)

Canon needs a new product and I am shure they will try to launch again a "first" like with the 5D ii . So I am expecting Dual Pixel AF for the next 5D - implementation. If you can do it with 24MPix on APS-C it should be easy to do it on FF for ~30MPix ...

Just my 2ct

 

[whothafunk]

Whoever thinks 5D4 will be a 30MP DSLR better get off your unicorn asap.

 

[Don Haines]

Guys deciding between a 1DX Mark II vs 5D Mark IV are probably rare exceptions in the market between these two cameras.

Agreed, probabably not a lot choosing between the two...and the ones that choose a 1DX2 give more money to Canon's coffers..... And the ones who go for a 5D variant (who really did have money for the 1DX2) are so happy with the money they saved they spent it on a new lens.....

 

[clarksbrother]

That said, I would love to see a 5D C with say a 12MP sensor that did full sensor readout and downsampled to 4K in both DCI spec and UHD. It would be amazing if it also shot compressed raw video at say a 3:1 or 4:1 compression. It would be great if it also had CLog and an XLR adapter and a bunch of other amazing things. But I don't think any of that will happen.

I'm not trying to pick a fight with you specifically... cause a lot of people say it.
But I have to ask... why 12MP? Just cause Sony did it, doesn't mean that Canon has to copy them...
I mean Panasonic did 16MP in the GH4, granted smaller sensor but still has DCI 4K and UHD, as opposed to UHD only in the Sony.

I'd much prefer 16MP over the 12MP. I wouldn't mind the 18MP recycled from the 1DC... this is if its a 5DC with more video features. I don't expect DPAF, nor 4K @ 60, but 4K @ 24 and 1080/120p and C-log would be nice.

12MP makes the most sense because a standard image sensor is a 3:2 ratio whereas video is 16:9. Since 4K video is essentially a resolution of 8mp, simply by cropping off the top/bottom of the frame, you get the exact amount of pixels you need for 4K video while still using the whole width. Also - it means you don't have to do any downsampling which means less processor power that can be used to either extend battery life and shoot longer or to devote towards other features such as RAW video recording or higher bitrates. In addition, the larger pixel sites let in a lot more light which means much better ISO performance.

 

[gsealy]

This is exactly it. Even if there is a 5D with 4K, it will be the same low quality compressed crap the 1DX has. Perhaps Magic Lantern will eventually give us access to RAW, perhaps not, but on release we will have crappy 4K.

If you want that, then go here:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Canon-EOS-C500-EF-Mount-Cinema-Camera-NEW-In-Box-FREE-SHIPPING-/201530637477?hash=item2eec297ca5:g:tYoAAOSwGotWpmOg

No need to wait, speculate, or complain.