There will not be an EOS 5D Mark V [CR2]

H. Jones

Photojournalist
Aug 1, 2014
491
732
Well it looks like we have our answer:

There doesn't seem to be appreciable lag while not shooting. (Which does not mean latency = throughput. It just means latency is too small to be a human problem.) But when shooting both Tony and Chelsea struggled to keep the subject in frame. As I said earlier in this long winded debate, the bubbles introduced by full resolution capture/processing/storage is what most people notice and complain about. (Though general latency has been a problem as well on some EVFs.) I notice this stutter even on A9 bodies and while I think can anticipate/track reasonably well with those, it's still not as nice as an OVF.
I'd like to see what the R5 does when it's not paired with a lens so old that it could legally order a drink in the US like they're using. The manual specifically states you don't get 12 FPS when using older glass, and from my experience with the EOS R, it also can prevent the high-speed viewfinder with incompatible glass.

The mark I 500mm f/4L IS they're using is from 1999. It's not even listed as compatible with the 12 FPS mode in the R5 manual, and I've seen no evidence of newer lenses or RF lenses having similar results to what they recorded, which is also on top of the fact the camera was already being forced to record the viewfinder feed on top of shooting images. Even if the EVF has a slight delay or slideshow effect, 12 FPS is going to look far better than what they were doing, and 20 FPS is going to look like a video feed on its own.
 

stevelee

FT-QL
CR Pro
Jul 6, 2017
1,805
632
Davidson, NC
Once that rebucketing occurs, and we speak of terrestrials, asteroids, gas giants, and kuiper belt objects as separate classes of things, perhaps the word "planet" will be a sort of bucket for buckets, and we'll use it to group different classes of things that orbit stars together, and plutons will be included. Or maybe not. Scientists are all about classifying things they observe, and sometimes the classification scheme in use starts to break down. We've seen it in biology (where "kingdom" is no longer the top-level phylogenetic division, and many more levels have been established between things like class, order, and family), we're seeing it now in astronomy.
That gives new meaning to "bucket list."

My geneticist friend tells me that we have 23 pairs rather than 24 like other primates because two of the chromosomes "fused," whatever that means. (A great thing about living in a college town is that for almost any topic, I know someone with a PhD in that field, if not the specific topic, maybe somebody I normally play bridge with.) Back before he moved to a retirement home, I used to sit with him on his porch, and he would sometimes comment on the breeds of dogs people were walking. One day I saw a white dog with a black spot. He pointed out that it was really a black dog with a really large white spot.
 
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Aug 28, 2019
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I'd like to see what the R5 does when it's not paired with a lens so old that it could legally order a drink in the US like they're using. The manual specifically states you don't get 12 FPS when using older glass, and from my experience with the EOS R, it also can prevent the high-speed viewfinder with incompatible glass.

The mark I 500mm f/4L IS they're using is from 1999. It's not even listed as compatible with the 12 FPS mode in the R5 manual, and I've seen no evidence of newer lenses or RF lenses having similar results to what they recorded, which is also on top of the fact the camera was already being forced to record the viewfinder feed on top of shooting images. Even if the EVF has a slight delay or slideshow effect, 12 FPS is going to look far better than what they were doing, and 20 FPS is going to look like a video feed on its own.
I agree, hopefully they will do an update
 

SecureGSM

2 x 5D IV
Feb 26, 2017
2,376
1,245
To be fair, I couldn't keep a bird in frame with a 2xTC on a 500mm L IS (first version) using a DSLR - too heavy and too narrow fov. Chelsea is quite a woman to manage that.
Hi Alan, I watch the video. It’s not that. the subject (bird) disappears from the viewfinder like for a for a few frames and reappear again... have a little watch. I expect that R6 with its 20Mp sensor and a lower res EVF will be better placed for tracking. I totally expect this.
 
Jul 28, 2020
1
2
I really hope the rumors aren't true. As a canon user, I feel really let down if the 5d MkIV will be the end of Canon's 5d range, it's almost like they've just stopped short of the top. I was really hoping that canon would have one final DSLR (that being the 5d MkV) that would compete with Nikon's 850D.

Personally at this stage, I'm not interested in mirrorless and I think it's really going to be "users choice", especially in the hobbyist/amateurs market. I understand that mirrorless is a game changer and it's going to be the way of the future, however there is a market for those of us who are happy with the DSLR's, whilst we go through this transitional stage. At present I think Nikon have the right market mix with the 850D and the mirrorless Z7. We all know that canon has created a game changer with the release of the 5R, however it would be fantastic if they could also do it with a DSLR Mk5.
 
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AlanF

Stay at home
CR Pro
Aug 16, 2012
7,527
7,618
Hi Alan, I watch the video. It’s not that. the subject (bird) disappears from the viewfinder like for a for a few frames and reappear again... have a little watch. I expect that R6 with its 20Mp sensor and a lower res EVF will be better placed for tracking. I totally expect this.
I had watched it, and was impressed with the way Chelsea could handle that heavy hunk of metal and glass - the lens, not Tony. The old 500/4 is not on Canon’s list of lens of compatible lenses for high fps.
 

SecureGSM

2 x 5D IV
Feb 26, 2017
2,376
1,245
I had watched it, and was impressed with the way Chelsea could handle that heavy hunk of metal and glass - the lens, not Tony. The old 500/4 is not on Canon’s list of lens of compatible lenses for high fps.
Yup, so does 400/2.8 IS II, the issue though was not a low FPS rate but EVF in high refresh mode dropping some frames in between.
Uh, I don’t know... it’s a bloody Tatts lotto. You pay $4000+ and keep your fingers crossed...
At this stage I would like to have a good read of R6 user manual. It isn’t available yet.
I also would like to understand how 20Mp R6 handles tracking of fast subjects. I am convinced that 20Mp sensor and lower EVF resolution in R6 will substantially improve EVF performance while tracking. And... battery life. Less data to write. less dots to display.
I am seriously thinking of R6 now as a junior 1 series camera. Sure not as well built, Not as well weather protected.
 

AlanF

Stay at home
CR Pro
Aug 16, 2012
7,527
7,618
Yup, so does 400/2.8 IS II, the issue though was not a low FPS rate but EVF in high refresh mode dropping some frames in between.
Uh, I don’t know... it’s a bloody Tatts lotto. You pay $4000+ and keep your fingers crossed...
At this stage I would like to have a good read of R6 user manual. It isn’t available yet.
I also would like to understand how 20Mp R6 handles tracking of fast subjects. I am convinced that 20Mp sensor and lower EVF resolution in R6 will substantially improve EVF performance while tracking. And... battery life. Less data to write. less dots to display.
I am seriously thinking of R6 now as a junior 1 series camera. Sure not as well built, Not as well weather protected.
I think I've read somewhere, and please correct me if I am wrong, that the evf at lower frame rates appears to have no blackout because it is a slide show of the previous frames whereas at higher fps it is closer to real time, and the incompatible lenses restrict the camera to those lower fps?
 

AlanF

Stay at home
CR Pro
Aug 16, 2012
7,527
7,618
That gives new meaning to "bucket list."

My geneticist friend tells me that we have 23 pairs rather than 24 like other primates because two of the chromosomes "fused," whatever that means. (A great thing about living in a college town is that for almost any topic, I know someone with a PhD in that field, if not the specific topic, maybe somebody I normally play bridge with.) Back before he moved to a retirement home, I used to sit with him on his porch, and he would sometimes comment on the breeds of dogs people were walking. One day I saw a white dog with a black spot. He pointed out that it was really a black dog with a really large white spot.
To use US phraseology, scientists can be divided into "lumpers" and "splitters". The splitters won for Pluto. At an early stage in my career, I was invited to lecture in a series of US college towns whose populations dropped by a factor of 5 during student vacations. An experienced British expat professor warned me at one it was because they were trying to recruit me, and his Mid-West school was a great place to do science because there was nothing else to do apart from watching the grass grow. I really enjoyed my post-doc and sabbatical years in the US, and wouldn't mind being there now with the current travel restrictions.
 

Fischer

EOS 90D
Mar 17, 2020
115
64
As a canon user, I feel really let down if the 5d MkIV will be the end of Canon's 5d range, it's almost like they've just stopped short of the top.
"The top" is a moveable target so nothing - ever - comes close or we would all still be shooting T90's.
 

SecureGSM

2 x 5D IV
Feb 26, 2017
2,376
1,245
I think I've read somewhere, and please correct me if I am wrong, that the evf at lower frame rates appears to have no blackout because it is a slide show of the previous frames whereas at higher fps it is closer to real time, and the incompatible lenses restrict the camera to those lower fps?
Um, not quite. It has been a great discussion on CR lately as to how the sensor readout, buffer, processing time and evf output are all parts that form the combined EVF latency. So it’s 20Mp worth of data vs 45Mp worth of data being red, processed for EVF output, buffered and finally fed into an EVF issue.
as far as I remember and I can be mistaken here, Canon choose to skip some frames - slide show effect - due to very slow readout of sensor used in the R.
I cannot remember who was the forum member that explained in great details the nature of the combined EVF latency. I hope that forum member will chime in and help us understand if my expectations of R6 being potentially a better Camera for tracking is correct.
I am very curious to review R6 user manual and compare some still photography related limitations of R5 vs R6
 

chik0240

EOS M50
Dec 31, 2016
43
16
I think I've read somewhere, and please correct me if I am wrong, that the evf at lower frame rates appears to have no blackout because it is a slide show of the previous frames whereas at higher fps it is closer to real time, and the incompatible lenses restrict the camera to those lower fps?
to be clear I didn't ever read that before, but maybe you are referring to the FPS of the shooting/photos to be taken per second, which is related to how the lens and camera communicate for focus, aperture closing etc. to work. but the EVF itself shouldn't drop as it don't make sense that a slower or unknown lens would affect how the sensor image was read out and displayed on the EVF, it makes sense though for a slower or incompatible lens cannot do 20 or even 12 photos per second as that is a chain of
camera send focusing signal->lens react-> camera confirms focus -> tells the lens to stop down and fire shutter
process would take more time for old lens
 

stevelee

FT-QL
CR Pro
Jul 6, 2017
1,805
632
Davidson, NC
To use US phraseology, scientists can be divided into "lumpers" and "splitters". The splitters won for Pluto. At an early stage in my career, I was invited to lecture in a series of US college towns whose populations dropped by a factor of 5 during student vacations. An experienced British expat professor warned me at one it was because they were trying to recruit me, and his Mid-West school was a great place to do science because there was nothing else to do apart from watching the grass grow. I really enjoyed my post-doc and sabbatical years in the US, and wouldn't mind being there now with the current travel restrictions.
My friend did undergrad at NC State, masters at Cornell, doctorate at Georgia, post-doc at Oak Ridge, TN, and Riverside, CA. Then he taught for some years at the University of Calgary before coming here to chair the biology department, supervise pre-meds (of which there are relatively many), and be the liaison to med schools. So he had a rather wide range of experiences in the North American collegiate landscape. And his kids grew up playing hockey.

One of our scholarship basketball players, one of our best, was offered a free ride at medical school, but decided to go into the Catholic priesthood instead. Since academics come first, student's labs really mess up practice schedules. They built additional practice facilities to ease the crunch between various teams and working around the labs. Our best player in this century, Steph Curry, who later was a two-time NBA MVP, did so well in a freshman math course that his prof encouraged him to major in math. His roommate, also a player, did a double major in math and economics and has since got an MBA from Stanford. He now heads Steph's businesses for him. So it is fun to following the teams and players here even if you are not much of a sports fan.

In normal times there are too many things going on here to keep up with, unlike that Mid-West school. And if you run out of anything to do, the 16th largest city in the country is just over 20 miles away. The students are too busy to take in most of it, but us old folks stay entertained. I was going to sing in a performance of Beethoven's Ninth on campus in May. Obviously that didn't happen.
 

davidhfe

EOS RP
Sep 9, 2015
303
447
to be clear I didn't ever read that before, but maybe you are referring to the FPS of the shooting/photos to be taken per second, which is related to how the lens and camera communicate for focus, aperture closing etc. to work. but the EVF itself shouldn't drop as it don't make sense that a slower or unknown lens would affect how the sensor image was read out and displayed on the EVF, it makes sense though for a slower or incompatible lens cannot do 20 or even 12 photos per second as that is a chain of
camera send focusing signal->lens react-> camera confirms focus -> tells the lens to stop down and fire shutter
process would take more time for old lens
Read on here that one issue with older lenses is how quickly stop down. So the lag is that the camera is waiting for the lens to stop the aperture back down. Looks like they were shooting at F8, 1/1000, ISO 200, +1/3 EV. On a 20 year old lens with a 2x. I definitely need another data point here as nobody else has mentioned EVF tracking performance.

Which is because every other reviewer is ignoring it shoots stills.
 
Aug 26, 2020
3
3
I hope you guys are wrong. Although DSLMs have certain advantages, I still prefer the optical pentaprism viewfinder. Please, Canon, give us a 5D Mk. V with the sensor and processor of the R5!

I have Sony DSLM and Canon DSLR full-frame equipment, and use some of the EF lenses also on Sony. The reason why I still have Canon equipment is that they offer DSLRs. If they go DSLM only, well, then I go Sony only because if I can't get any new DSLRs in the future and would be forced to use DSLM only, then I can stay with Sony DSLMs just as well.
 
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cornieleous

5D4 + R5
Jul 13, 2020
208
735
I hope you guys are wrong. Although DSLMs have certain advantages, I still prefer the optical pentaprism viewfinder. Please, Canon, give us a 5D Mk. V with the sensor and processor of the R5!

I have Sony DSLM and Canon DSLR full-frame equipment, and use some of the EF lenses also on Sony. The reason why I still have Canon equipment is that they offer DSLRs. If they go DSLM only, well, then I go Sony only because if I can't get any new DSLRs in the future and would be forced to use DSLM only, then I can stay with Sony DSLMs just as well.
That DSLM term drives me nuts in place of MILC. SLR was adapted to DSLR was adapted to DSLM and hardly has accurate meaning any more.

Anyhow, I am curious if you have tried one of the latest EVF? They look so much better than they used to. I was not a fan of EVF until I got the R5. I may have even wanted a true 5D5 if asked before this camera. Now after just a couple weeks the 5D4 isn't getting much use and I don't miss the OVF. In many conditions I can barely tell the difference from optical and the view is much superior for composing, seeing what exposure you will actually get, checking and setting focus, etc. In the dark, obviously an OVF is useless but an EVF tells you everything. Same with overly bright conditions like sunsets, the OVF gets flooded. The EVF on the R5 looks pretty natural, and has much more information available, is very configurable, and easier to see with less distortion and more apparent magnification. It takes workflow to a whole new level. The only place I am uncertain about it is in fast action or wildlife, and even then all reports are that it has minimal lag.

If you are bought into both Canon and Sony already, why would you go with Sony mirrorless without trying Canon? Just curious. When I make major decisions like which system I usually rent or demo things first.
 

Mt Spokane Photography

I post too Much on Here!!
CR Pro
Mar 25, 2011
16,539
1,488
Are you joking, or is there some reason why your opinion would hold more weight than a sourced assertion from Canon Rumors?
A CR2 is still a rumor and not a guarantee. Its impossible to prove a negative unless Canon comes out and says no more. Even then, they can change their mind. They said no M5 MK II, but now rumors say its happening. Buyer demand is the key.
 

twoheadedboy

EOS R5
CR Pro
Jan 3, 2018
200
291
Kenosha, WI
A CR2 is still a rumor and not a guarantee. Its impossible to prove a negative unless Canon comes out and says no more. Even then, they can change their mind. They said no M5 MK II, but now rumors say its happening. Buyer demand is the key.
He doesn't need to prove a negative, but he does need to provide a logical basis for why his opinion on the matter should take precedence over this site's CR2 rumor, which was my point.
 
Aug 26, 2020
3
3
If you are bought into both Canon and Sony already, why would you go with Sony mirrorless without trying Canon? Just curious.
When I purchased my first Sony body, the A7r (initial version), the purpose was to get better dynamic range for landscape photography than what was available from Canon at the time, while continue using the Canon EF lenses. After a trip to Italy I had been so disappointed by the DR limitations on pictures taken on sunny days with the 5D II that I purchased the A7r almost immediately. Multi-exposure HDR is no acceptable alternative for me. Meanwhile, I've somehow grown into the Sony system, having added a number of native lenses and using it almost exclusively. However, I continue to miss the optical viewfinder because I want to see the light the sensor sees (and hopefully captures as much as possible in RAW) but I have no desire to view - prior to exposure - whatever final result the camera's imaging pipeline suggests. One of the notable exceptions, where I actually prefer the EVF of course, is low-light photography. But this is a rather rare application for me, so I could live with live view on a (sorry) DSLR for that.

I have always been more than happy with the image quality captured with my Sony cameras. So, EVF aside, I have not much to complain about except for the confusing menus but they are improving now (A7s III fixes it) and at the end fo the day, Canon hides many of the settings which are bloating the Sony menus in their "custom functions" which are by no means intuitive either.

Also, as I noted I have a number of native (F)E mount lenses already, so switching to Canon R would mean to buy new lenses again. Adapting EF is always only the 2nd best solution, regardless if I adapt them to RF or FE. In the end everyone buys native lenses for their current system, and the manufacturers know it. Surely one of the reasons to introduce a new system in an otherwise saturated market.

I have tried a colleague's EOS R and certainly felt immediately familiar with it. I'm sure I would with the R5 too. However, nothing that makes enough difference to give up on Sony. If I'd really invest into another system and money was not be the limiting factor, it would not be Canon but maybe Fujifilm's GFX.

Therefore the only thing I'm asking here is to get a 5D Mk. V. I am not interested in the Canon R system.
 
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cornieleous

5D4 + R5
Jul 13, 2020
208
735
When I purchased my first Sony body, the A7r (initial version), the purpose was to get better dynamic range for landscape photography than what was available from Canon at the time, while continue using the Canon EF lenses. After a trip to Italy I had been so disappointed by the DR limitations on pictures taken on sunny days with the 5D II that I purchased the A7r almost immediately. Multi-exposure HDR is no acceptable alternative for me. Meanwhile, I've somehow grown into the Sony system, having added a number of native lenses and using it almost exclusively. However, I continue to miss the optical viewfinder because I want to see the light the sensor sees (and hopefully captures as much as possible in RAW) but I have no desire to view - prior to exposure - whatever final result the camera's imaging pipeline suggests. One of the notable exceptions, where I actually prefer the EVF of course, is low-light photography. But this is a rather rare application for me, so I could live with live view on a (sorry) DSLR for that.

I have always been more than happy with the image quality captured with my Sony cameras. So, EVF aside, I have not much to complain about except for the confusing menus but they are improving now (A7s III fixes it) and at the end fo the day, Canon hides many of the settings which are bloating the Sony menus in their "custom functions" which are by no means intuitive either.

Also, as I noted I have a number of native (F)E mount lenses already, so switching to Canon R would mean to buy new lenses again. Adapting EF is always only the 2nd best solution, regardless if I adapt them to RF or FE. In the end everyone buys native lenses for their current system, and the manufacturers know it. Surely one of the reasons to introduce a new system in an otherwise saturated market.

I have tried a colleague's EOS R and certainly felt immediately familiar with it. I'm sure I would with the R5 too. However, nothing that makes enough difference to give up on Sony. If I'd really invest into another system and money was not be the limiting factor, it would not be Canon but maybe Fujifilm's GFX.

Therefore the only thing I'm asking here is to get a 5D Mk. V. I am not interested in the Canon R system.

Fair enough and thanks for answering, I was just curious. Sounds like you have a lot of Sony glass. To me the R5 is miles better than the R, especially the EVF, and maybe the best photo mirrorless out right now, plus EF glass on it performs better than it did on my 5D4 and only requires inexpensive adapter- I see no hurry to rush to buy RF glass when the EF glass is performing better than on any native camera I have. From what I know the Sony adapted EF is not always as good and that is why native Sony is best on their bodies, but seems not to be the case for Canon adapted EF on R5, which is excellent. For myself, since Canon image quality is finally caught up or leading and I prefer their systems, I like that I can shoot the 5D4 as second cam with the same batteries and lenses as R5.

I'll be happy if Canon answers your wishes too as it would be another option, but after using the R5 I am just not sure the OVF makes much sense anymore and I would never have thought I'd be a mirrorless convert until using it for several weeks. The new EVF vs old ones like in the R or last gen Sony is so different and better in almost any light conditions.