There will not be an EOS 5D Mark V [CR2]

H. Jones

Photojournalist
Aug 1, 2014
353
295
Well it looks like we have our answer:

There doesn't seem to be appreciable lag while not shooting. (Which does not mean latency = throughput. It just means latency is too small to be a human problem.) But when shooting both Tony and Chelsea struggled to keep the subject in frame. As I said earlier in this long winded debate, the bubbles introduced by full resolution capture/processing/storage is what most people notice and complain about. (Though general latency has been a problem as well on some EVFs.) I notice this stutter even on A9 bodies and while I think can anticipate/track reasonably well with those, it's still not as nice as an OVF.
I'd like to see what the R5 does when it's not paired with a lens so old that it could legally order a drink in the US like they're using. The manual specifically states you don't get 12 FPS when using older glass, and from my experience with the EOS R, it also can prevent the high-speed viewfinder with incompatible glass.

The mark I 500mm f/4L IS they're using is from 1999. It's not even listed as compatible with the 12 FPS mode in the R5 manual, and I've seen no evidence of newer lenses or RF lenses having similar results to what they recorded, which is also on top of the fact the camera was already being forced to record the viewfinder feed on top of shooting images. Even if the EVF has a slight delay or slideshow effect, 12 FPS is going to look far better than what they were doing, and 20 FPS is going to look like a video feed on its own.
 

stevelee

FT-QL
Jul 6, 2017
1,611
513
Davidson, NC
Once that rebucketing occurs, and we speak of terrestrials, asteroids, gas giants, and kuiper belt objects as separate classes of things, perhaps the word "planet" will be a sort of bucket for buckets, and we'll use it to group different classes of things that orbit stars together, and plutons will be included. Or maybe not. Scientists are all about classifying things they observe, and sometimes the classification scheme in use starts to break down. We've seen it in biology (where "kingdom" is no longer the top-level phylogenetic division, and many more levels have been established between things like class, order, and family), we're seeing it now in astronomy.
That gives new meaning to "bucket list."

My geneticist friend tells me that we have 23 pairs rather than 24 like other primates because two of the chromosomes "fused," whatever that means. (A great thing about living in a college town is that for almost any topic, I know someone with a PhD in that field, if not the specific topic, maybe somebody I normally play bridge with.) Back before he moved to a retirement home, I used to sit with him on his porch, and he would sometimes comment on the breeds of dogs people were walking. One day I saw a white dog with a black spot. He pointed out that it was really a black dog with a really large white spot.
 
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Aug 28, 2019
6
5
I'd like to see what the R5 does when it's not paired with a lens so old that it could legally order a drink in the US like they're using. The manual specifically states you don't get 12 FPS when using older glass, and from my experience with the EOS R, it also can prevent the high-speed viewfinder with incompatible glass.

The mark I 500mm f/4L IS they're using is from 1999. It's not even listed as compatible with the 12 FPS mode in the R5 manual, and I've seen no evidence of newer lenses or RF lenses having similar results to what they recorded, which is also on top of the fact the camera was already being forced to record the viewfinder feed on top of shooting images. Even if the EVF has a slight delay or slideshow effect, 12 FPS is going to look far better than what they were doing, and 20 FPS is going to look like a video feed on its own.
I agree, hopefully they will do an update
 

SecureGSM

2 x 5D IV
Feb 26, 2017
2,282
1,122
To be fair, I couldn't keep a bird in frame with a 2xTC on a 500mm L IS (first version) using a DSLR - too heavy and too narrow fov. Chelsea is quite a woman to manage that.
Hi Alan, I watch the video. It’s not that. the subject (bird) disappears from the viewfinder like for a for a few frames and reappear again... have a little watch. I expect that R6 with its 20Mp sensor and a lower res EVF will be better placed for tracking. I totally expect this.
 
Jul 28, 2020
1
2
I really hope the rumors aren't true. As a canon user, I feel really let down if the 5d MkIV will be the end of Canon's 5d range, it's almost like they've just stopped short of the top. I was really hoping that canon would have one final DSLR (that being the 5d MkV) that would compete with Nikon's 850D.

Personally at this stage, I'm not interested in mirrorless and I think it's really going to be "users choice", especially in the hobbyist/amateurs market. I understand that mirrorless is a game changer and it's going to be the way of the future, however there is a market for those of us who are happy with the DSLR's, whilst we go through this transitional stage. At present I think Nikon have the right market mix with the 850D and the mirrorless Z7. We all know that canon has created a game changer with the release of the 5R, however it would be fantastic if they could also do it with a DSLR Mk5.
 
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AlanF

Stay alert, control the camera, save photos
Aug 16, 2012
6,855
5,917
Hi Alan, I watch the video. It’s not that. the subject (bird) disappears from the viewfinder like for a for a few frames and reappear again... have a little watch. I expect that R6 with its 20Mp sensor and a lower res EVF will be better placed for tracking. I totally expect this.
I had watched it, and was impressed with the way Chelsea could handle that heavy hunk of metal and glass - the lens, not Tony. The old 500/4 is not on Canon’s list of lens of compatible lenses for high fps.
 

SecureGSM

2 x 5D IV
Feb 26, 2017
2,282
1,122
I had watched it, and was impressed with the way Chelsea could handle that heavy hunk of metal and glass - the lens, not Tony. The old 500/4 is not on Canon’s list of lens of compatible lenses for high fps.
Yup, so does 400/2.8 IS II, the issue though was not a low FPS rate but EVF in high refresh mode dropping some frames in between.
Uh, I don’t know... it’s a bloody Tatts lotto. You pay $4000+ and keep your fingers crossed...
At this stage I would like to have a good read of R6 user manual. It isn’t available yet.
I also would like to understand how 20Mp R6 handles tracking of fast subjects. I am convinced that 20Mp sensor and lower EVF resolution in R6 will substantially improve EVF performance while tracking. And... battery life. Less data to write. less dots to display.
I am seriously thinking of R6 now as a junior 1 series camera. Sure not as well built, Not as well weather protected.
 

AlanF

Stay alert, control the camera, save photos
Aug 16, 2012
6,855
5,917
Yup, so does 400/2.8 IS II, the issue though was not a low FPS rate but EVF in high refresh mode dropping some frames in between.
Uh, I don’t know... it’s a bloody Tatts lotto. You pay $4000+ and keep your fingers crossed...
At this stage I would like to have a good read of R6 user manual. It isn’t available yet.
I also would like to understand how 20Mp R6 handles tracking of fast subjects. I am convinced that 20Mp sensor and lower EVF resolution in R6 will substantially improve EVF performance while tracking. And... battery life. Less data to write. less dots to display.
I am seriously thinking of R6 now as a junior 1 series camera. Sure not as well built, Not as well weather protected.
I think I've read somewhere, and please correct me if I am wrong, that the evf at lower frame rates appears to have no blackout because it is a slide show of the previous frames whereas at higher fps it is closer to real time, and the incompatible lenses restrict the camera to those lower fps?
 

AlanF

Stay alert, control the camera, save photos
Aug 16, 2012
6,855
5,917
That gives new meaning to "bucket list."

My geneticist friend tells me that we have 23 pairs rather than 24 like other primates because two of the chromosomes "fused," whatever that means. (A great thing about living in a college town is that for almost any topic, I know someone with a PhD in that field, if not the specific topic, maybe somebody I normally play bridge with.) Back before he moved to a retirement home, I used to sit with him on his porch, and he would sometimes comment on the breeds of dogs people were walking. One day I saw a white dog with a black spot. He pointed out that it was really a black dog with a really large white spot.
To use US phraseology, scientists can be divided into "lumpers" and "splitters". The splitters won for Pluto. At an early stage in my career, I was invited to lecture in a series of US college towns whose populations dropped by a factor of 5 during student vacations. An experienced British expat professor warned me at one it was because they were trying to recruit me, and his Mid-West school was a great place to do science because there was nothing else to do apart from watching the grass grow. I really enjoyed my post-doc and sabbatical years in the US, and wouldn't mind being there now with the current travel restrictions.
 

Fischer

EOS M50
Mar 17, 2020
47
30
As a canon user, I feel really let down if the 5d MkIV will be the end of Canon's 5d range, it's almost like they've just stopped short of the top.
"The top" is a moveable target so nothing - ever - comes close or we would all still be shooting T90's.
 

SecureGSM

2 x 5D IV
Feb 26, 2017
2,282
1,122
I think I've read somewhere, and please correct me if I am wrong, that the evf at lower frame rates appears to have no blackout because it is a slide show of the previous frames whereas at higher fps it is closer to real time, and the incompatible lenses restrict the camera to those lower fps?
Um, not quite. It has been a great discussion on CR lately as to how the sensor readout, buffer, processing time and evf output are all parts that form the combined EVF latency. So it’s 20Mp worth of data vs 45Mp worth of data being red, processed for EVF output, buffered and finally fed into an EVF issue.
as far as I remember and I can be mistaken here, Canon choose to skip some frames - slide show effect - due to very slow readout of sensor used in the R.
I cannot remember who was the forum member that explained in great details the nature of the combined EVF latency. I hope that forum member will chime in and help us understand if my expectations of R6 being potentially a better Camera for tracking is correct.
I am very curious to review R6 user manual and compare some still photography related limitations of R5 vs R6
 

chik0240

EOS M50
Dec 31, 2016
38
10
I think I've read somewhere, and please correct me if I am wrong, that the evf at lower frame rates appears to have no blackout because it is a slide show of the previous frames whereas at higher fps it is closer to real time, and the incompatible lenses restrict the camera to those lower fps?
to be clear I didn't ever read that before, but maybe you are referring to the FPS of the shooting/photos to be taken per second, which is related to how the lens and camera communicate for focus, aperture closing etc. to work. but the EVF itself shouldn't drop as it don't make sense that a slower or unknown lens would affect how the sensor image was read out and displayed on the EVF, it makes sense though for a slower or incompatible lens cannot do 20 or even 12 photos per second as that is a chain of
camera send focusing signal->lens react-> camera confirms focus -> tells the lens to stop down and fire shutter
process would take more time for old lens
 

stevelee

FT-QL
Jul 6, 2017
1,611
513
Davidson, NC
To use US phraseology, scientists can be divided into "lumpers" and "splitters". The splitters won for Pluto. At an early stage in my career, I was invited to lecture in a series of US college towns whose populations dropped by a factor of 5 during student vacations. An experienced British expat professor warned me at one it was because they were trying to recruit me, and his Mid-West school was a great place to do science because there was nothing else to do apart from watching the grass grow. I really enjoyed my post-doc and sabbatical years in the US, and wouldn't mind being there now with the current travel restrictions.
My friend did undergrad at NC State, masters at Cornell, doctorate at Georgia, post-doc at Oak Ridge, TN, and Riverside, CA. Then he taught for some years at the University of Calgary before coming here to chair the biology department, supervise pre-meds (of which there are relatively many), and be the liaison to med schools. So he had a rather wide range of experiences in the North American collegiate landscape. And his kids grew up playing hockey.

One of our scholarship basketball players, one of our best, was offered a free ride at medical school, but decided to go into the Catholic priesthood instead. Since academics come first, student's labs really mess up practice schedules. They built additional practice facilities to ease the crunch between various teams and working around the labs. Our best player in this century, Steph Curry, who later was a two-time NBA MVP, did so well in a freshman math course that his prof encouraged him to major in math. His roommate, also a player, did a double major in math and economics and has since got an MBA from Stanford. He now heads Steph's businesses for him. So it is fun to following the teams and players here even if you are not much of a sports fan.

In normal times there are too many things going on here to keep up with, unlike that Mid-West school. And if you run out of anything to do, the 16th largest city in the country is just over 20 miles away. The students are too busy to take in most of it, but us old folks stay entertained. I was going to sing in a performance of Beethoven's Ninth on campus in May. Obviously that didn't happen.
 

davidhfe

EOS RP
Sep 9, 2015
302
445
to be clear I didn't ever read that before, but maybe you are referring to the FPS of the shooting/photos to be taken per second, which is related to how the lens and camera communicate for focus, aperture closing etc. to work. but the EVF itself shouldn't drop as it don't make sense that a slower or unknown lens would affect how the sensor image was read out and displayed on the EVF, it makes sense though for a slower or incompatible lens cannot do 20 or even 12 photos per second as that is a chain of
camera send focusing signal->lens react-> camera confirms focus -> tells the lens to stop down and fire shutter
process would take more time for old lens
Read on here that one issue with older lenses is how quickly stop down. So the lag is that the camera is waiting for the lens to stop the aperture back down. Looks like they were shooting at F8, 1/1000, ISO 200, +1/3 EV. On a 20 year old lens with a 2x. I definitely need another data point here as nobody else has mentioned EVF tracking performance.

Which is because every other reviewer is ignoring it shoots stills.