This is probably the best camera review I’ve ever watched – Gerald Undone with the Canon EOS R5 and Canon EOS R6

Colorado

EOS M6 Mark II
Dec 16, 2013
53
152
I generally agree. But, I have a problem with any company that offers any feature that isn't ready for prime time. I think it was more than a bad marketing decision. I think it was a bad engineering and design decision. No matter how many disclaimers you offer, it's no substitute for having a product that works. If they couldn't make these ridiculously high resolution and frame rate modes work, they should have just left them off.

My perspective is different that the majority on this forum, but I see this as a case where they let the engineers and designers drive the marketing. "Ooh lookey what we can design! Never mind that it's non-functional in the real world, people should just adapt." No. You should engineer the product to work or not include the feature.
Well first off the features do work. One of my hobby-focused environments is high-speed dog sports. I can guarantee you once I somehow get my hands on an R5 that I'll be playing around with 8K, 4K120, and 4KHQ video though mostly I will be taking stills. Video length (dogs move fast for an exercise then it is over) is always less than 1 minute. I'm confident I'll be able to take these videos without overheating issues. And worse case if It does I drop down to 4K30. There are other definitions for the term "work" other than "I filmed a full length movie in the sahara desert".

But consider if Canon did what you suggested. They didn't offer any video mode other than 4k30. How many MP would the camera have? The 45MP number was clearly chosen because it matches what is needed for 8K video. With that constraint gone Canon might have gone with the 50+ MP--something matching the 5Ds for resolution. In either case the 4K30 would involve line skipping and the YouTube videos would all be about how Canon's video quality sucks compared to Sony's. So would they drop the MP down to 12 and essentially make a video camera?

People always argue that stills cameras get video features "for free" but that really isn't the case. Once you decide on a high MP sensor for stills then video is either compromised by line skipping or it is cutting edge (8K / 4KHQ) and there are heat issues. Canon had to choose between a 45MP stills marvel that either did "crappy" (compared to the competition) video or both unlimited "crappy" video and heat limited best-in-class video. I don't think it is hard to understand why they went with the latter.
 

SteveC

R5
CR Pro
Sep 3, 2019
1,865
1,722
People always argue that stills cameras get video features "for free" but that really isn't the case. Once you decide on a high MP sensor for stills then video is either compromised by line skipping or it is cutting edge (8K / 4KHQ) and there are heat issues. Canon had to choose between a 45MP stills marvel that either did "crappy" (compared to the competition) video or both unlimited "crappy" video and heat limited best-in-class video. I don't think it is hard to understand why they went with the latter.
Actually, you do have unlimited "crappy" video, in 4K and 1080p, so you actually got both. And Unlimited stills. But using them will (apparently) limit the heat limited best-in-class video as much as the best in class video limits itself
 
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ahsanford

Particular Member
Aug 16, 2012
8,617
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But consider if Canon did what you suggested. They didn't offer any video mode other than 4k30. How many MP would the camera have? The 45MP number was clearly chosen because it matches what is needed for 8K video.

22x6
30x7
45x20

Canon was never on a trajectory to give us a 45 MP 5D5, let alone one that pushes 20 fps. But the desire to put 8K on the spec sheet -- something I, a stills shooter, care absolutely nothing about -- has given this 5-series owner a high detail / high throughput camera that I've wanted for many years.

So... thanks, Big Video. A win's a win and I will take it.

- A
 

crazyrunner33

EOS RP
Nov 4, 2011
300
116
I'm not a video guy so it doesn't really matter much to me, but I would be interested in hearing theories about this:



Why does the R6 have overheating time limits on the modes that the R5 does not? (Specifically looking at 4K24).. With the significantly smaller number of megapixels and same processor I would expect the run time to be longer.

The only theories I can come up with (and these are kind of supported by what others have seen):

1) The magnesium body on the R5 is an integral part of the cooling process.
2) The reformatting of raw sensor data is more computationally extensive from a 20MP sensor than a 45MP one. Maybe the aspect ratios are not good for video on the R6.

Any comments?
Compare the R6's 4K24p times record times to the R5's HQ 4K24p times for the answer. The R6 doesn't have to oversample as many pixels, like you noted in your response. The reason the R5 can shoot a low quality 4K and the R6 cannot is because the R5 can line skip and read 1:1 on pixels for 4K. The R6 doesn't have the ability to line skip.

Your other theories might be correct for why it overheats more when cropped vs the R5.
 

BakaBokeh

EOS 90D
CR Pro
May 16, 2020
152
293
I think I figured out what bothers me the most. It's the people who throw their hands up in the air and whine that the R5 is useless.

Even before watching Gerald's Video, I was able to figure out the R5's limitations and already went into the mode of thinking, "how can I make it work with these limitations?". Thanks in part to him for publishing his early test results as well as others who reported their results, and because Canon told us about overheat and recovery times with a chart.

But if you have a beef with this camera because you can't use the best features in unlimited quantities, let me ask you, what did you use before? An EOS R?.... in 1080P?... or it's lower quality, cropped 4K? Did you use a 5DmkIV which was similar but with Motion JPEG? Did you shoot with any Sony Cameras prior to the A7SIII, who granted have better recovery times, but also had overheating issues? Did you shoot with a Panasonic, which had untrustworthy autofocus, and you had to work harder in post to get more pleasing colors? On what camera did you film 4K120? FHD120 for that matter... with working AutoFocus? If you used Canon, the best you had was noisy, soft 720p with manual focus only.

The R5 can shoot better quality 'normal' mode 4K24/30 with no heat issues. You can attach an Atomos external recorder 4K60 with no heat issues. Why does that not work for you?

Sure it'd be nice to use full frame oversampled 4KHQ, 8K, 4K120 without any restraints, but at the moment it's not feasible. Why not examine what the limitations and caveats are and determine how you can work with them, instead of crying and whining that the camera is unusable? I could tell you, fine... go use another camera brand. But guess what, there is no other camera out there that can do what the R5 can do. You have to wait until September for the A7SIII to release to get some of these features, and even then you'd be compromising the stills side... a lot... as well as have inferior IBIS, inability to use Animal AF in video, and obviously not have the option to shoot in 8K. And guess what, if superior image quality is important to you, the 4K in that camera is not the best. Sony's own A7RIV can produce better 4K.

And before any of you accuse me of being a Canon apologist, I'm not. I even say that Canon has a duty to address legitimate Consumer issues.

My biggest point is, have some perspective. What did you use before? What are we getting now? If all you can do is throw your hands in the air, utterly defeated so you can't create any content, I have no sympathy for you. You look like tantrum throwing entitled brats. I have much more of an affinity for people who remain positive, figure out what they have to work with, and just create. If you have complaints, that's fine. Don't just scream the camera is worthless, how is that going to help anything? Itemize what the issues are for you and provide that feedback to Canon. Maybe they can fix things with firmware, if not, maybe they can take that feedback in designing future cameras?

Sigh. This is about Cameras. I'm gonna quit now before this turns into a Ted Talk about how to go through adversities in life by overcoming limitations instead of being an unproductive whiny complainer.

What I really need is for my R5 to arrive so I can get off the damn internet.
 

Southstorm

Still Learning
CR Pro
Jan 3, 2020
18
46
Has anybody seen this from the Canon Rumors Discord discussion?


So externally, if you leave the cards out, you aren't met with an overheating countdown timer, and essentially can record indefinitely. When cards are in the camera, the countdown timer continues to tick. This leads me to believe there's some type of buffer going on that builds up heat triggering overheating. This isn't the case without cards in the camera.(edited)
 

privatebydesign

Garfield is back...
CR Pro
Jan 29, 2011
9,193
3,415
120
22x6
30x7
45x20

Canon was never on a trajectory to give us a 45 MP 5D5, let alone one that pushes 20 fps. But the desire to put 8K on the spec sheet -- something I, a stills shooter, care absolutely nothing about -- has given this 5-series owner a high detail / high throughput camera that I've wanted for many years.

So... thanks, Big Video. A win's a win and I will take it.

- A
I disagree, the α7R IV has 61mp, the Nikon Z7 has 45.7mp. The R5 has the going rate for the comparable model from other manufacturers none of whom have got 8k at all.
 

Colorado

EOS M6 Mark II
Dec 16, 2013
53
152
Actually, you do have unlimited "crappy" video, in 4K and 1080p, so you actually got both. And Unlimited stills. But using them will (apparently) limit the heat limited best-in-class video as much as the best in class video limits itself
Aye completely agree. That's why I said the later option was both. And I'm fine with it. Given the alternatives the R5 is almost my ideal camera--high MP stills with great DR and colors with great features like IBIS, animal eye AF. Video is either offered no where else (8K, 4KHQ) or is a still quite respectable 4K and 1080 if things get too hot.

About the only thing I am worried about is switching from my 1DX. I'm sort of use to the built-like-a-tank qualities of a 1-series body. I know a 5-series (mirrorless or SLR) is not the same beast. But honestly as an amateur I don't know if I could continue to justify 1-series cameras even when the inevitable R1 is released.
 
Last edited:

dtaylor

Canon 5Ds
Jul 26, 2011
1,627
1,171
4k60 shouldnt be overheating in 2020. Most couldnt give a crap about using the 8K right now aside from bragging rights.
I could live with the 4k60 record limits IF THE THING WOULD JUST COOL OFF AFTERWARDS. Seriously Canon, leave the Corning home insulation out of the R5 mark II.
 

dtaylor

Canon 5Ds
Jul 26, 2011
1,627
1,171
I'm not sure if the dynamic range was really measured properly - only 11? Really? Because the DR in photo mode is on par with sony and even in 400ISO it is slightly better. In waht exact video mode and what exact ISO did he measure it?
As he stated the limitation is C-log, not the sensor.
 
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reefroamer

EOS M6 Mark II
CR Pro
Jun 21, 2014
90
114
I generally agree. But, I have a problem with any company that offers any feature that isn't ready for prime time. I think it was more than a bad marketing decision. I think it was a bad engineering and design decision. No matter how many disclaimers you offer, it's no substitute for having a product that works. If they couldn't make these ridiculously high resolution and frame rate modes work, they should have just left them off.

My perspective is different that the majority on this forum, but I see this as a case where they let the engineers and designers drive the marketing. "Ooh lookey what we can design! Never mind that it's non-functional in the real world, people should just adapt." No. You should engineer the product to work or not include the feature.
Leaving off the “ridiculously high resolution and frame rate modes” could be done with a firmware downgrade. Easy enough.
 

dtaylor

Canon 5Ds
Jul 26, 2011
1,627
1,171
Has anybody seen this from the Canon Rumors Discord discussion?

So externally, if you leave the cards out, you aren't met with an overheating countdown timer, and essentially can record indefinitely. When cards are in the camera, the countdown timer continues to tick. This leads me to believe there's some type of buffer going on that builds up heat triggering overheating. This isn't the case without cards in the camera.(edited)
Now that is interesting. Would love to see the same tests with an R6. Might narrow it down to a single component, and help people get better performance with an external recorder.
 
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jam05

EOS RP
Mar 12, 2019
285
140
He hit it on the head about what ever is in denial about. As I said before, they marketed the video functions more than anything else without mentioning the limitations. But everyone thinks it is wrong of consumers to be upset or discouraged because Canon didnt say it would record in all modes without overheating. Marketing isnt about 100% transperancy, Canon knew they what they were hyping up. 4k60 shouldnt be overheating in 2020. Most couldnt give a crap about using the 8K right now aside from bragging rights.
Sitting at a desk talking isn't a real live review. If that's good enough for you, good for ya.. But it isn't good enough for me. Many want more than a lecture. There are countless other reviewers that know how to use a thermometer. That's why Mr. Undone had to do a redo. Simply looking at an icon without a clue has to the reason you got that icon in the first place is kinda lazy.
 

jam05

EOS RP
Mar 12, 2019
285
140
Mr Undone had to go back and do a redo since there are other photogs actually using the camera in real life situations and some actually using a thermometer also. Mr Undone has yet to put a thermometer on the camera read temps. Anyone can look at threshold icons after they've passed the operating temps. Which by the way is in the manual 0-104 F.
 

jam05

EOS RP
Mar 12, 2019
285
140
Leaving off the “ridiculously high resolution and frame rate modes” could be done with a firmware downgrade. Easy enough.
Nope. Merely reading ones manual would be enough. It says operating temperature is 0-104 F. The overheat icons come on after 104 F is reached. Being smart enough not to let your device exceed operating temps is sufficient. I would never install that update if it took away my resolutions and frame rates that i PAID FOR because some people can't read a manual.
 
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jam05

EOS RP
Mar 12, 2019
285
140
Some people like to be lectured to and get impressed. Not me. Show me the device operating in the environment using the proper guidelines in the manual. Not sitting on a tripod in the office. Lecture time is over. Thousands of owners have cameras in hand already.
 
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Justhandguns

I'm New Here
Jan 23, 2014
13
9
Has anybody seen this from the Canon Rumors Discord discussion?


So externally, if you leave the cards out, you aren't met with an overheating countdown timer, and essentially can record indefinitely. When cards are in the camera, the countdown timer continues to tick. This leads me to believe there's some type of buffer going on that builds up heat triggering overheating. This isn't the case without cards in the camera.(edited)
I have always been wondering, for a mirrorless camera, if you keep the camera on for continuous shooting, the sensor is supposedly to be on all the time as in video capturing, does that mean it will also over heat as well? Or is it just because the continue video processing generate a lot more heat than simply keeping the sensor on for still shooting?

P.S. I won't trust all these videoographers doing Youtube and video-castings as most of them are actually making videos for a living. Most people who get the R5/R6 are using them for stills and short videos. Why bother?
 
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