This is probably the best camera review I’ve ever watched – Gerald Undone with the Canon EOS R5 and Canon EOS R6

Jun 24, 2020
3
3
He speaks too fast, and shows image examples for about 10 microseconds. Very irritating. He kept bla, bla, bla about video for 18 minutes. Only the last 5 minutes was (a bit) about still photography.

I found this review pretty terrible.
He does say in the end if you didn't find it helpful or entertaining, you can try setting the youtube playback to about 75 percent. Since you found him speaking too fast and very irritating, maybe that playback setting will help you ;) Also, there are timecodes there, so if you wanted to go straight into the photographic portion and ignore the video portions, you could've gone there. Save yourself some time.

Let's be clear: the stills portion of R5 and R6 are phenomenal. I don't think there's anyone contesting it on that point. It checks off a lot of boxes and I think bridges the gap if not exceeds, what even the Sony A7RIV can do. The problem is, many people do like to utilize these cameras as hybrids. Ever since the days of the 5D Mk II and 5D Mark III, Canon''s become a popular choice for wedding, event photographers and filmmakers because it can do both. For the vast many people who are now dipped in doing video, there's a lot of problems you can run into with the R5 and R6 if you decide to switch to video, and that's the issue.

That's the problem with people who keep on saying "oh why don't we just have a stills focused camera now, it always has to include video, what happened to us?". Well, trying to ignore how relevant video is, especially in this evolving business, is pretty foolhardy. Ignoring things cause it's not relevant to you, well that's your prerogative, but ignoring it won't simply make the matter go away.

Again, these cameras are very good, if not incredible cameras. Even the video capabilities are to be marveled at, but limited by the sheer amount of heat it can't dissipate. That leads to issues where, what if you miss the bridge and groom kiss? "oh switch to your second body". This is a $4000 investment with equally expensive cards, and you want me to buy another one that can have an equal fail rate? Most of us, myself included, are not fortunate enough to just simply, "drop for an extra camera body".

Good job, Gerald. People are gonna hate and nitpick at you for all the dumb reasons. But facts are facts.
 
Last edited:

Respinder

5D Mark III
Mar 4, 2012
85
64
He does say in the end if you didn't find it helpful or entertaining, you can try setting the youtube playback to about 75 percent. Since you found him speaking too fast and very irritating, maybe that playback setting will help you ;) Also, there are timecodes there, so if you wanted to go straight into the photographic portion and ignore the video portions, you could've gone there. Save yourself some time.

Let's be clear: the stills portion of R5 and R6 are phenomenal. I don't think there's anyone contesting it on that point. It checks off a lot of boxes and I think bridges the gap if not exceeds, what even the Sony A7RIV can do. The problem is, many people do like to utilize these cameras as hybrids. Ever since the days of the 5D Mk II and 5D Mark III, Canon''s become a popular choice for wedding, event photographers and filmmakers because it can do both. For the vast many people who are now dipped in doing video, there's a lot of problems you can run into with the R5 and R6 if you decide to switch to video, and that's the issue.

That's the problem with people who keep on saying "oh why don't we just have a stills focused camera now, it always has to include video, what happened to us?". Well, trying to ignore how relevant video is, especially in this evolving business, is pretty foolhardy. Ignoring things cause it's not relevant to you, well that's your prerogative, but ignoring it won't simply make the matter go away.

Again, these cameras are very good, if not incredible cameras. Even the video capabilities are to be marveled at, but limited by the sheer amount of heat it can't dissipate. That leads to issues where, what if you miss the bridge and groom kiss? "oh switch to your second body". This is a $4000 investment with equally expensive cards, and you want me to buy another one that can have an equal fail rate? Most of us, myself included, are not fortunate enough to just simply, "drop for an extra camera body".

Good job, Gerald. People are gonna hate and nitpick at you for all the dumb reasons. But facts are facts.
Not only are professionals doing both video and photo, but in general, more people are doing videography. Think about mobile apps like Instagram and TikTok that continue to pivot to videos versus still images - video is quickly becoming the more desirable way to communicate.

For me - a hobbyist - I’m looking at both the video and photo capabilities as being necessary for vacations - I can’t imagine a scenario where I take a ton of photos and then all of a sudden I get locked out of video. Does it mean that I have to take all my video first so that the camera doesn’t overheat and then switch to photos? Even as a non-pro that seems like a very complicated way to use this camera - am I working the camera or is the camera working me? When I factor in the total price including body, lenses, adapter and card, this camera is really starting to look less likely for my purposes.

I don’t see how any self-respecting videographer would purchase this given the considerable constraints.

Again as I’ve mentioned a few times in other posts I really hope Canon comes back to the table with a solution. With this many people either on here or influencers/media saying that the cameras video is practicably unworkable I don’t see how they can remain silent. The more loudly we complain the more likely they will come back with a solution.
 
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cornieleous

5D4 + R5
Jul 13, 2020
208
735
He hit it on the head about what ever is in denial about. As I said before, they marketed the video functions more than anything else without mentioning the limitations. But everyone thinks it is wrong of consumers to be upset or discouraged because Canon didnt say it would record in all modes without overheating. Marketing isnt about 100% transperancy, Canon knew they what they were hyping up. 4k60 shouldnt be overheating in 2020. Most couldnt give a crap about using the 8K right now aside from bragging rights.
Can you name one single other FF 45MP in a weather sealed MILC body with IBIS that doesn't overheat?

You have a general notion that you choose to believe, but you are ignoring physics and electronics principles.

"4k60 shouldnt be overheating in 2020" (sic) demonstrates you have no idea about WHY a 45MP sensor is overheating in the R5.
 
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Deleted member 384473

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well... i skipped like 18 minutes till he actually started talking about photography, which is all this camera is about (even if people keep forgetting it).

www.nicolaszonvi.com
Agreed! Since the release of the R5/R6, it’s been like 20-1 video reviews. It almost feels like photography itself is a craft of the past.
Well... You both missed a good, fair video. Hope people don't skip your photos and comment about it after you share them.
 
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Jun 24, 2020
3
3
Not only are professionals doing both video and photo, but in general, more people are doing videography. Think about mobile apps like Instagram and TikTok that continue to pivot to videos versus still images - video is quickly becoming the more desirable way to communicate.

For me - a hobbyist - I’m looking at both the video and photo capabilities as being necessary for vacations - I can’t imagine a scenario where I take a ton of photos and then all of a sudden I get locked out of video. Does it mean that I have to take all my video first so that the camera doesn’t overheat and then switch to photos? Even as a non-pro that seems like a very complicated way to use this camera - am I working the camera or is the camera working me? When I factor in the total price including body, lenses, adapter and card, this camera is really starting to look less likely for my purposes.

I don’t see how any self-respecting videographer would purchase this given the considerable constraints.

Again as I’ve mentioned a few times in other posts I really hope Canon comes back to the table with a solution. With this many people either on here or influencers/media saying that the cameras video is practicably unworkable I don’t see how they can remain silent. The more loudly we complain the more likely they will come back with a solution.
Exactly! The photography hasn't gone down in importance, but videography has definitely risen up in our world today because of IG stories, FB Live, tiktok, etc etc.

I genuinely like Canon stuff, have shot with it for years, but also have had to branch out because of work (yet still holding some dear Canon gear because, I love that 35mm F/1.4 L of mine). I think they did really well with some of the capabilities of the R5 and R6. But it's hard to justify some of the costs, or downsides posed by the options. Jumping to RF options from an EF is a little close to double the price, and having the uncertainty of cooldown times between takes isn't something I can't afford, nor risk.

I guess you can use your iphone, samsung, or any smartphone for video, but that kinda defeats the purpose in buying either of them.

Either way, I'm sure you'd be able to get by, so long as you're not using the 8k, or 4k120 fps options. Even for most leisure videos, you'd get some good results from their 4k 24 or 30fps. But it is disheartening to think that it'd fail on you when you need it to work the most.
 
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Rocksthaman

Eos R , R6(x2)
Jul 9, 2020
52
44
Can you name one single other FF 45MP in a weather sealed MILC body with IBIS that doesn't overheat?

You have a general notion that you choose to believe, but you are ignoring physics and electronics principles.

"4k60 shouldnt be overheating in 2020" (sic) demonstrates you have no idea about WHY a 45MP sensor is overheating in the R5.
It’s not overheated. Multiple testers have said the cameras are cool to the touch. They are programmed to show overheated as a timed limit based on usage and not the actual temperature of the camera. Same with the obligatory record limit even with no tax law. It’s all one Big sell for the cinema cameras.
 
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David - Sydney

EOS RP
CR Pro
Dec 7, 2014
359
301
www.flickr.com
Just curious if anyone has done a teardown of the camera for the purposes of investigating why it is behaving the way it is. If Canon doesn't plan on fixing the problem, I'd be curious to see if anyone with the engineering know-how is willing to identify where the problem is coming from, and perhaps suggest modifications that may result in enhanced performance. Perhaps iFixIt will investigate at some point?
As much as everyone would love to see a teardown, people are just happy to get theirs rather than void the warranty on arrival. Even the reviewers need to return theirs to Canon. A teardown will happen but not for a while yet and Roger is the best one to do it. Can't imagine Lens rentals to get a sufficient stock and have damaged ones returned for repair for some time. By that time, there will be 3rd party coolers, work arounds and maybe a firmware update. Perhaps the Sony folk will finally focus on reviewing real A7Siii bodies and examine their limitations.
 
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cornieleous

5D4 + R5
Jul 13, 2020
208
735
It’s not overheated. Multiple testers have said the cameras are cool to the touch. They are programmed to show overheated as a timed limit based on usage and not the actual temperature of the camera. Same with the obligatory record limit even with no tax law. It’s all one Big sell for the cinema cameras.
Do you have information about the die temperature of the processor ASIC that we don't? You realize the temperature of the body or battery could be far lower than the processor right? Can you tell us about the lines of firmware code and their algorithm that are cheating us? Or are you speculating? Have you ever done any electronics testing in thermal chambers or written a line of firmware? I have.

The body is NOT cool to the touch after extended use of the higher performance features- it gets very warm but not quite hot- warmer by far than I have ever felt a Canon camera or battery except after leaving it stored in a very hot car. I've been running thermal tests for a few days (I own the camera) and the outside is quite warm when overheat shutdown occurs. In direct sunlight video testing I ran over 90 minutes, the camera was a clear 10-12 degrees warmer than my powered off 5D4 and 6D. It was clearly accumulating heat and not able to expel it to ambient air fast enough.

I've also ran my 5D4 and the R5 in a comparison test configured identically as possible for a 1 hour timelapse, 5 second interval. I've been able to determine that IBIS and EVF are major heat contributors during that use, as is storing dual pixel RAW files. I got the R5 to heat up quite a bit doing the 5 second intervals (a fairly benign activity for most cameras) to the point that HQ video time limits were halved and the body felt way warmer than the 5D4 at the end of the test, and the battery was nearly drained (power used = heat). Turning IBIS and EVF off and repeating the test, the R5 ran with the same very minimal battery use (less than half of an LPE6) as the 5D4 and hardly any increase in temperature over the 5D4 by test end. Those results suggest real thermal problems, not Canon programming. This tiny body has too much capability to use it all without heat issues. I'm ok with having access to those features sometime in R5 when using all its features constantly, and not encountering thermal shutdown often for MY purposes, so is not a big deal to me. I think as a stills camera with some advanced features in this small body, no one else would be able to do any better. IBIS can be set to shot only instead of all time, and screen and EVF can be set to lower power modes or used carefully.

Should Canon raise the limit to let the body get uncomfortably hot and possibly put internal components at risk of long term damage? They might in a later update as a middle ground to all this controversy like Sony did on their past models, we'll see, and Canon knows if they were too conservative. I won't indulge speculation from repeated opinions of others without fair consideration of technical aspects involved and very detailed reporting of test configuration.

Canon clearly made an engineering and marketing choice and are now being beaten down for it. Sure maybe they could have selected a different balance and they definitely could have marketed smarter, but they didn't. How does lamenting what the R5 is, over and over for two weeks, help? To me this is all the worst way to get a product improved, or anything changed. How you communicate complaints is important. How much actual experience you have and the amount of detail about a problem you record is equally important when troubleshooting. Being calm and respectful about an issue helps the people who have to try to fix the problem. If it turns out not to be fixed to your liking and is not the tool for you, there are amazing products from all the major brands right now. You can make great content with Sony, Panasonic, Nikon, etc. Even the last generation of cameras should not be limiting for competent artists, I cannot believe what we have at our fingertips. Sitting around feeling personally victimized by a company is counterproductive.
 
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Respinder

5D Mark III
Mar 4, 2012
85
64
Do you have information about the die temperature of the processor ASIC that we don't? You realize the temperature of the body or battery could be far lower than the processor right? Can you tell us about the lines of firmware code and their algorithm that are cheating us? Or are you speculating? Have you ever done any electronics testing in thermal chambers or written a line of firmware? I have.

The body is NOT cool to the touch after extended use of the higher performance features- it gets very warm but not quite hot- warmer by far than I have ever felt a Canon camera or battery except after leaving it stored in a very hot car. I've been running thermal tests for a few days (I own the camera) and the outside is quite warm when overheat shutdown occurs. In direct sunlight video testing I ran over 90 minutes, the camera was a clear 10-12 degrees warmer than my powered off 5D4 and 6D. It was clearly accumulating heat and not able to expel it to ambient air fast enough.

I've also ran my 5D4 and the R5 in a comparison test configured identically as possible for a 1 hour timelapse, 5 second interval. I've been able to determine that IBIS and EVF are major heat contributors during that use, as is storing dual pixel RAW files. I got the R5 to heat up quite a bit doing the 5 second intervals (a fairly benign activity for most cameras) to the point that HQ video time limits were halved and the body felt way warmer than the 5D4 at the end of the test, and the battery was nearly drained (power used = heat). Turning IBIS and EVF off and repeating the test, the R5 ran with the same very minimal battery use (less than half of an LPE6) as the 5D4 and hardly any increase in temperature over the 5D4 by test end. Those results suggest real thermal problems, not Canon programming. This tiny body has too much capability to use it all without heat issues. I'm ok with having access to those features sometime in R5 when using all its features constantly, and not encountering thermal shutdown often for MY purposes, so is not a big deal to me. I think as a stills camera with some advanced features in this small body, no one else would be able to do any better. IBIS can be set to shot only instead of all time, and screen and EVF can be set to lower power modes or used carefully.

Should Canon raise the limit to let the body get uncomfortably hot and possibly put internal components at risk of long term damage? They might in a later update as a middle ground to all this controversy like Sony did on their past models, we'll see, and Canon knows if they were too conservative. I won't indulge speculation from repeated opinions of others without fair consideration of technical aspects involved and very detailed reporting of test configuration.

Canon clearly made an engineering and marketing choice and are now being beaten down for it. Sure maybe they could have selected a different balance and they definitely could have marketed smarter, but they didn't. How does lamenting what the R5 is, over and over for two weeks, help? To me this is all the worst way to get a product improved, or anything changed. How you communicate complaints is important. How much actual experience you have and the amount of detail about a problem you record is equally important when troubleshooting. Being calm and respectful about an issue helps the people who have to try to fix the problem. If it turns out not to be fixed to your liking and is not the tool for you, there are amazing products from all the major brands right now. You can make great content with Sony, Panasonic, Nikon, etc. Even the last generation of cameras should not be limiting for competent artists, I cannot believe what we have at our fingertips. Sitting around feeling personally victimized by a company is counterproductive.
Sorry man but “being calm and respectful” will do nothing here. Unless we are all loud and complaining actively about the issue, Canon will do absolutely nothing.
Want proof of this? Just ask any 1DX Mark II owner who STILL doesn’t have Clog in their camera, while the cropped video 5D Mark IV did get a Clog update. There’s a method to this madness!
 
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SteveC

R5
CR Pro
Sep 3, 2019
1,719
1,589
Or Americans who ignore the x in luxury "lugury" :)
Yeah, we do tend to pronounce it "lugzhuree", and exactly becomes "egzaktlee" (though for all I know Aussies do that latter one too). Alas consonants between two vowels tend to become voiced. When I stop and say them slowly I get "lukshuree" and "eksaktlee" and the first still doesn't sound terribly British.
 

unfocused

EOS-1D X Mark III
Jul 20, 2010
5,708
2,696
67
Springfield, IL
www.mgordoncommunications.com
...For me - a hobbyist - I’m looking at both the video and photo capabilities as being necessary for vacations - I can’t imagine a scenario where I take a ton of photos and then all of a sudden I get locked out of video...
I'm as critical of this as anyone. But really, for me personally, if I wanted to shoot vacation videos I wouldn't be using 8K or probably even 4K.
 
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SteveC

R5
CR Pro
Sep 3, 2019
1,719
1,589
I'm as critical of this as anyone. But really, for me personally, if I wanted to shoot vacation videos I wouldn't be using 8K or probably even 4K.
I've been satisfied with 1080p for that very purpose. I'd love to see 120fps added to that resolution (and that should be relatively simple for them to add). Will I switch to the 4K line skipped? Probably not. It takes up more space and I'll end up converting it to 1080 most likely anyway.
 
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BakaBokeh

EOS 90D
CR Pro
May 16, 2020
149
282
So thanks to wayne in the Discord Server, we have the test results of using the R5 with an external recorder in the oversampled 4K HQ mode with No Cards in the camera. It ran for 4 hours before shutting down. The recovery period was a self-imposed 10 minutes before restarting. No overheating indicator once restarted and he concludes it would probably run for more hours. He mentions the dummy battery in the video, but tested again and reported in Discord that a real battery did not trigger the overheating indicator.


What does this mean?

It means that High Quality Oversampled 4K, which is superior to everything out there, including the A7SIII, can be run for a looong time without heat limitations.

The strange behavior might also mean that there is probably a super aggressive software implemented overheating protection algorithm. It opens up the possibility of a firmware update relaxing this thermal protection. On the flip side, if this was an oversight in the designed protection, Canon may decide to remove the 'no card' trick. I hope that is not the case.
 
Jun 12, 2020
3
1
^ only in sharpness, not in dynamic range - that's the equation that video people care about, not absolute sharpness