Thom Hogan: Seven Reasons Why I Shoot With (Nikon) DSLRs

[Sporgon]

Technology is improving, eventually EVFs will be better than OVFs in most aspects. When that happens the DSLR will be like film. It may take a while but it will happen.

Possibly - eventually. As Thom says, probably not in his life time. The problem is that it is very difficult to beat harnessing simple physics to optically look through the lens, and it's free in energy terms. As he says, dslr technology is not standing still, and it may be that lcd overlays etc may enable some of the EVF benefits to be brought to OVF anyway.

We will have a better idea once Canon unleash the DPAF sensor on the mirrorless market.

Being able to show the actual exposure outcome or amplify for night/low light are pretty big benefits for a lot of people. The main advantage of optical is its limitation as well - you only see what your own eyes can see, not what the sensor is really seeing.

Yes, I agree. I'm using the full M3 system now as well as FF DSLR. But those advantages of the EVF are old news, they've been around for perhaps ten years ? They just haven't taken the photographic world by storm, so although as you say, they have big benefits for many, and I agree that being able to review the image through the viewfinder without daylight interfering is useful, there are still a much greater number of people who prefer the experience of optically looking through their lens.

It will be interesting to see how long the pentamirror lasts now EVFs are maturing, and whether Canon / Nikon / Pentax will start putting a decent pentaprism in their lower end dslrs. In fact I think Pentax may have started.

 

[Otara]

Being able to show the actual exposure outcome or amplify for night/low light are pretty big benefits for a lot of people. The main advantage of optical is its limitation as well - you only see what your own eyes can see, not what the sensor is really seeing.

exactly!
plus no vibration, no noise, short X-sync times, no rolling shutter - as soon as mechanical shutters are also thrown out of cameras and replaced by electronic global Shutter.

solid state digital cameras are only 1 more step away from being better in every aspect and for any photographic task than mirrorslappers.
it COULD already happen with a Sony A9.
unless hit by a bus before, it WILL happen in Thom's lifetime. and mine.

I think thats a bit too uh, fervent for me. But I do think theres a lot of room for improvement with mirrorless. So far Ive not seen a EVF that comes close to an optical VF for my needs, and predicting the future has its way of biting people - VHS vs betamax comes to mind for instance. I suspect theres going to be room for both for some time to come.

 

[H. Jones]

solid state digital cameras are only 1 more step away from being better in every aspect and for any photographic task than mirrorslappers.

Better battery life? I'm not holding my breath for mirrorless to be beating SLRs in this way.

The Sony A7RII has better battery life when "life view" shooting is performed than when using the 5DIII in the same fashion.

Having a longer battery life than the 5D mark III in live view a pretty low bar to beat at 200 shots. I couldn't sustain my workloads off of that and I have three spare batteries. I've spent days in the field without access to battery chargers and have shot tens of thousands of shots off of the batteries I have for my 5D mark III, I'd absolutely hate to think of how many batteries would be required for an A7R II.

Beyond even just working in charging-limiting situations, I don't have the pleasure of being constantly able to prepare for my line of work. I went to a small assignment photographing syrup being made for about 30 minutes and ended up at the scene of a plane crash for the next 7 hours on my way back. I packed a single spare battery just in case and that spare battery sustained me for the entire rescue operation with over 3000 shots. Had I had been using the A7R II, I would have run out within the first hour and would have had to drive 40 minutes back to grab more batteries. No time for that in news.

 

[infared]

I find Thom to be a repetitive bag of hot air. He is also paid by Nikon(which is an incredible camera system), and that fact, in this instance makes his hot air even less palatable.
His always "expert" view is tiring.
I use two relatively extensive systems. DSLR and Mirrorless. One is big, one is small (as are the lenses!).
They both have positive and negative attributes.
I use my mirrorless 90% Of the time. It's very capable, lightweight and SMALL. My situation satisfies my image creating needs. Everyone is different and has different needs.
There Thom...was that so tough?

 

[tron]

solid state digital cameras are only 1 more step away from being better in every aspect and for any photographic task than mirrorslappers.

Better battery life? I'm not holding my breath for mirrorless to be beating SLRs in this way.

The Sony A7RII has better battery life when "life view" shooting is performed than when using the 5DIII in the same fashion.

Maybe but can the Sony A7RII shoot in non live view mode and take 2000 shots with 1 battery just like my 5D3 or 7D2 manage to do?

 

[Loswr]

just like mirrorless cams have caught up with and are kicking mirrorslappers in the butt in 2016.

Wow, I knew your grip on reality was tenuous, but I didn't realize you'd let go entirely and let your mind drop into the abyss. Sad.

CIPA global shipments Jan-May 2016:
dSLR – 3,217,939
MILC – 1,066,443

 

[Don Haines]

<snip>
I use two relatively extensive systems. DSLR and Mirrorless. One is big, one is small (as are the lenses!).
They both have positive and negative attributes.
I use my mirrorless 90% Of the time. It's very capable, lightweight and SMALL. My situation satisfies my image creating needs. Everyone is different and has different needs.

I use two relatively extensive systems. DSLR and Mirrorless. One is big, one is small (as are the lenses!).
They both have positive and negative attributes.
I use my mirrorless 20% Of the time. It's very capable, lightweight and SMALL. My situation satisfies my image creating needs. Everyone is different and has different needs.

Both systems are indispensable... it is hard for me to imagine doing without either.... one has fantastic ergonomics and the other has great portability..... there is a time and a place for both with my kit.

 

[AvTvM]

just like mirrorless cams have caught up with and are kicking mirrorslappers in the butt in 2016.

Wow, I knew your grip on reality was tenuous, but I didn't realize you'd let go entirely and let your mind drop into the abyss. Sad.

CIPA global shipments Jan-May 2016:
dSLR – 3,217,939
MILC – 1,066,443

Neuro obsession with yesterdays and yesteryear sales numbers. I let camera companies worry about those.

From the context of my posting and the entire thread it was clear to every "normal" person, that I was referring to photographic/functional capabilities. By now, mirrorless camera systems are as capable as almost all most DSLRs ... except the most expensive ones and/or for some specific imaging situations.

 

[Dylan777]

solid state digital cameras are only 1 more step away from being better in every aspect and for any photographic task than mirrorslappers.

Better battery life? I'm not holding my breath for mirrorless to be beating SLRs in this way.

The Sony A7RII has better battery life when "life view" shooting is performed than when using the 5DIII in the same fashion.

Having a longer battery life than the 5D mark III in live view a pretty low bar to beat at 200 shots. I couldn't sustain my workloads off of that and I have three spare batteries. I've spent days in the field without access to battery chargers and have shot tens of thousands of shots off of the batteries I have for my 5D mark III, I'd absolutely hate to think of how many batteries would be required for an A7R II.

Beyond even just working in charging-limiting situations, I don't have the pleasure of being constantly able to prepare for my line of work. I went to a small assignment photographing syrup being made for about 30 minutes and ended up at the scene of a plane crash for the next 7 hours on my way back. I packed a single spare battery just in case and that spare battery sustained me for the entire rescue operation with over 3000 shots. Had I had been using the A7R II, I would have run out within the first hour and would have had to drive 40 minutes back to grab more batteries. No time for that in news.

agree with H. Jones,

This is one of A7 weaknesses and therefore cant be compared to DSLR. I'm shooting with A7 and an extra battery is almost a must have item to carry around.

 

[Loswr]

From the context of my posting and the entire thread it was clear to every "normal" person, that I was referring to photographic/functional capabilities. By now, mirrorless camera systems are as capable as almost all most DSLRs ... except the most expensive ones and/or for some specific imaging situations.

Ahhh, but the majority of those "normal" people keep on buying dSLRs instead of MILCs, which indicates that in the minds of the majority of those "normal" people, the only butt being kicked here is the idea that MILCs are equal or better. But hey, you go right ahead and ignore objective reality, even when it's staring you in the face. :

 

[Sporgon]

By now, mirrorless camera systems are as capable as almost all most DSLRs ...

There, you've summed up the situation. To make further progress in replacing dslr sales they are going to have to become more capable. And that's going to be tricky as dslr s continue to develop as well.

 

[Orangutan]

just like mirrorless cams have caught up with and are kicking mirrorslappers in the butt in 2016.

Wow, I knew your grip on reality was tenuous, but I didn't realize you'd let go entirely and let your mind drop into the abyss. Sad.

CIPA global shipments Jan-May 2016:
dSLR – 3,217,939
MILC – 1,066,443

yesterdays and yesteryear sales numbers. I let camera companies worry about those.

Sales numbers tell us important information about what customers want, even if they don't tell us about today's tech. It's important to understand that what other people want may be very different from what you want.

I was referring to photographic/functional capabilities. By now, mirrorless camera systems are as capable as almost all most DSLRs ... except the most expensive ones and/or for some specific imaging situations.

Again, you're saying they've caught-up/surpassed DSLRs for your needs, which may not be the same as those of the general public.

I agree that mirrorless will "soon" overtake DSLRs, and I would love to have one that did everything I need, but they do not yet meet my needs. It appears that the EVF lag problem has been solved, but there are still problems with battery life and tracking AF.

 

[Don Haines]

From the context of my posting and the entire thread it was clear to every "normal" person, that I was referring to photographic/functional capabilities. By now, mirrorless camera systems are as capable as almost all most DSLRs ... except the most expensive ones and/or for some specific imaging situations.

Ahhh, but the majority of those "normal" people keep on buying dSLRs instead of MILCs, which indicates that in the minds of the majority of those "normal" people, the only butt being kicked here is the idea that MILCs are equal or better. But hey, you go right ahead and ignore objective reality, even when it's staring you in the face. :

I wonder how much of this is ergonomics? I wonder how many buy DSLRs (particularly the entry ones) and really don't care if it has a mirror or not, because they like the size and feel of it......

 

[AvTvM]

in all honesty, majority of people still buying a Canon or Nikon APS-C DSLR today are pretty much clueless [exception: many of the 7D and D500 purchasers]. All they will ever do with their cameras could be done with any current APS-C MILC ... M3, A6300, Fuji X-thisandthat and they would have to carry less weight and bulk.

Why are not more MILC systems bought? because Canon and Nikon are refusing to serve the more discerning/advanced target group: FF DSLR buyers only have Sony as an (affordable) option. For CaNikon users it would mean full or partial system switch ... something most people are rather cautious about. And for many good reasons.

If Canon and Nkon both had FF competitors as capable and npot more expensive than Sony A//R/S I and II ... DSLR sales would be trailing MILC sales already by a good margin. If we need to talk about "unit sales".

 

[RGF]

If we need to talk about "unit sales".

Smart phones win then

 

[Orangutan]

in all honesty, majority of people still buying a Canon or Nikon APS-C DSLR today are pretty much clueless [exception: many of the 7D and D500 purchasers]. All they will ever do with their cameras could be done with any current APS-C MILC ... M3, A6300, Fuji X-thisandthat and they would have to carry less weight and bulk.

Why are not more MILC systems bought? because Canon and Nikon are refusing to serve the more discerning/advanced target group

The essential facts you continue to overlook are:

• You don't know what other customers want
• You don't know what the marketing teams at Canon and Nikon know
• If there were money to be made in mirrorless you can bet your slapper that Canon and Nikon would be on-board with it.

It's an error in judgement for you to continue to assert that your limited experience with cameras and camera buyers extends to the entire market.
Once again let me say that I would love to have a mirrorless that satisfies my needs, but it ain't so right now.

 

[AvTvM]

• You don't know what other customers want
• You don't know what the marketing teams at Canon and Nikon know
• If there were money to be made in mirrorless you can bet your slapper that Canon and Nikon would be on-board with it.

you can save yourself you useless rethoric tricks and attempts to make and make me sound like I am the ONLY person on earth more interested in a good mirrorless system than in antiquated mirrorslappers.

It is so EVIDENT, what the market wants: Not everybody, but MANY, MANY, MANY photographers from entry level to advanced to semi-pro to pro would just love to get a great Canon EOS-M "Pro" body right now for APS-C or a killer Nikon APS-C MILC system (instead of a pathetic Nikon 1).

And MANY MORE would immediately shell out money for a Canon or Nikon FF MILC system fully competitive with Sony A7/R/S II.

Denial is really ridiculous.

 

[ahsanford]

The essential facts you continue to overlook are:

• You don't know what other customers want
• You don't know what the marketing teams at Canon and Nikon know
• If there were money to be made in mirrorless you can bet your slapper that Canon and Nikon would be on-board with it.

It's an error in judgement for you to continue to assert that your limited experience with cameras and camera buyers extends to the entire market.
Once again let me say that I would love to have a mirrorless that satisfies my needs, but it ain't so right now.

I have a love / eye-roll relationship with AvTvM -- the passion for what he/she wants is A+, but the way it is argued for is jaw-dropping, nonsensical, and Bush-43-like in terms of his/her perceived infallibility.

The idea that AvTvM is the 'future whisperer' of photography tech based on always betting right with everything could be his/her pièce de résistance:

http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=30007.msg601380#msg601380

- A

 

[Thom Hogan]

He forgot the most important reason: "I'm paid by Nikon" ...

I get no remuneration from Nikon. Never have in 20 years of doing this. Indeed, the NikonUSA folk tend to talk negatively about me, even in my presence. I get better support from Canon than I do Nikon, actually, despite the fact I'm registered with NPS.

 

[Thom Hogan]

The only part of Thom's concerns I have trouble accepting is his lament over the current best-in-class 1/250 second lag of the viewfinder image in a mirrorless body.

As I note in the article, lags are cummulative. There is my own response lag, shutter lag, and on mirrorless cameras, EVF lag. Well, the correct order on a mirrorless camera is EVF lag, response lag, shutter lag. On a DSLR there is only response lag, shutter lag.