UPDATE: EOS M2 Not Coming to North America
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Canon is really shooting themselves. They are totally dropping the ball in the mirrorless department. Especially now that the Sony A7 has burst onto the scene. Its obvious to see that mirrorless FF is the future...yet Canon seems so stubborn that it won't even support its aspc mirrorless here in the states. I think they are making a mistake. As a longtime canon user & supporter, I am going to be buying the Sony A7. I'm excited by it, like I haven't been excited by a canon in awhile. To be fair, I think Nikon is dropping the mirrorless ball too. Perhaps they both think their user base is so big & loyal that they do t have to make a move in the mirrorless world. But I think they are doing this at their own peril. They've already lost the point & shoot sector to smartphones. Perhaps that was inevitable. But this is NOT. Canon can easily enter this realm & dominate...but they are choosing not to. I find this not only strange, but stupid.
The Sony A7 is not a gimmick, its a game changer. I'll be able to use all my canon glass, along with Nikon glass and Leica, voightlander, and zeiss manual focus rangefinder lenses. I'm in heaven. I was saving for a 5d3, but the sony a7 has changed my mind. And trust me, I was a loyal canon head.
Canon better wake up and stop sitting on its hands. And this goes for Nikon too. Sony has thrown the gauntlet down and really challenged the big two.
The Sony A7 is not a gimmick, its a game changer. I'll be able to use all my canon glass, along with Nikon glass and Leica, voightlander, and zeiss manual focus rangefinder lenses. I'm in heaven. I was saving for a 5d3, but the sony a7 has changed my mind. And trust me, I was a loyal canon head.
Canon better wake up and stop sitting on its hands. And this goes for Nikon too. Sony has thrown the gauntlet down and really challenged the big two.
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neuroanatomist said:Too bad the gauntlet has poor battery life, an AF system not suitable for tracking moving subjects, and comes from a company notorious for not delivering long-term support for its own product lines. :
Fair enough. I'm no Sony fanboy. But the A7 is the first of its kind. Is it perfect? Um...no. Could battery life be better? Of course. But carrying a spare or two isn't the end of the world. And as far as the AF system not being up to snuff, for me, that doesn't apply since I prefer manual focus. It does have a cool focus peaking feature.
Believe me, I was totally going to buy a canon FF DSLR for my travel/street photography. I was never tempted by another camera company...but that all changed when the sony a7 came out. I'm just saying that's me. I want the FF yumminess...but I also want the stealthy smallness because I travel all over the world. Canon wasn't addressing that. Sony is. I've been waiting for a Canon answer to the A7 FF mirrorless...but none was forthcoming. So...it was an easy decision for me.
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The body is smaller, but the lenses still need to cover a FF image circle. If you're traveling with 1-2 relatively small lenses, I can definitely see the benefit. Personally, I usually travel with ~4 lenses covering 16-300mm, f/2.8 on the wider end, including a TS lens, tripod, etc. A smaller/lighter body would probably save <5% weight and not change the bag I'd choose, so there's not a lot of benefit from that, for me.
I do like the idea of a higher MP body that works with my existing lenses. But frankly, I don't really need the MP in a travel body. A higher MP body with all the AF, fps, and ergonomic advantages of the 1D X would be great for birds/wildlife, though.
I do hope Canon continues to develop the mirrorless segment. DPAF is well-suited for that, and I expect that technology will make it to the M line, then to FF dSLRs, and eventually (hopefully) to a FF mirrorless.
I do like the idea of a higher MP body that works with my existing lenses. But frankly, I don't really need the MP in a travel body. A higher MP body with all the AF, fps, and ergonomic advantages of the 1D X would be great for birds/wildlife, though.
I do hope Canon continues to develop the mirrorless segment. DPAF is well-suited for that, and I expect that technology will make it to the M line, then to FF dSLRs, and eventually (hopefully) to a FF mirrorless.
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I gave the M a shot. It's a great little camera. I got frustrated when they announced that the wide angle zoom wasn't coming to the US, nor any other stuff. I used EF-M lenses with the adapter. In the end I bought the SL1 when Amazon had it on sale for $350. Absolutely love that thing. Small, no adapter or new lenses needed, image quality and AF are better than the M. Yeah, it's not as small, but it does the job. Heck, you even have back button focusing.
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Re: EOS M2 Coming to North America & Europe?
Assuming you're referring to the original M rather than the M2 (that's what your opening sentence implies, at any rate) some of us who don't like it ("hate" is too strong) know exactly what we're missing because we owned one and, even though it can make very good images, think it's a trial to use ergonomically, whether compared to a dslr or other, better designed, mirrorless bodies.
ashmadux said:
Assuming you're referring to the original M rather than the M2 (that's what your opening sentence implies, at any rate) some of us who don't like it ("hate" is too strong) know exactly what we're missing because we owned one and, even though it can make very good images, think it's a trial to use ergonomically, whether compared to a dslr or other, better designed, mirrorless bodies.
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neuroanatomist said:Too bad the gauntlet has poor battery life, an AF system not suitable for tracking moving subjects, and comes from a company notorious for not delivering long-term support for its own product lines. :
and yet ... as imperfect as the Sony A7/R may be .. Canon has not even been able to create any mirrorless cameras that could even remotely compete with them. Witness .. the EOS-M.
And just like Sony, Canon first created APS-C lenses with their own mount (EF-S) and then yet another mount and lens line-up for EF-M to match and take advantage of the shorter flange-distance of mirrorless cameras. That leaves Canon with currently 3 differnt lens- and mount types of which 2 look pretty much doomed ... and may be disabandoned soon enough: EF-M [unless Canon manages to revive that dead-end] and EF-S [dead end as soon as APS-C DSLRs will be gone for good] ...
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After a long string of disappointing compacts I bought the SL1 when it first shipped. What a little gem of a camera, tiny size (especially with the 40mm pancake attached), light weight and with all the benefits of being a DSLR. The package would be complete with a 22mm pancake. This is now my travel camera, usually with the brilliant EF-S 15-85is.michi said:
-pw
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The M, a timid release of a half hearted product... Canon could easily make something that would blow our minds and set the camera world on fire, they chose not to. Instead they let Ricoh, Fuji and Sony have some moments of glory. Their fear of harming Rebel sales allows these other brands some sort of safety net. For now I guess.
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Re: EOS M2 Coming to North America & Europe?
It's a LiveView camera. Why do you need anything other then full manual and your eyes?
Seriously. I don't bother with any AE mode or metering pattern on my M. I just spin the dial until the scene is correct on the LCD. It's a wonderful way to work, especially in tricky lighting scenarios. You could claim AE is faster, but I would guess it's not once you count AE failures.
daemorhedron said:
It's a LiveView camera. Why do you need anything other then full manual and your eyes?
Seriously. I don't bother with any AE mode or metering pattern on my M. I just spin the dial until the scene is correct on the LCD. It's a wonderful way to work, especially in tricky lighting scenarios. You could claim AE is faster, but I would guess it's not once you count AE failures.
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neuroanatomist said:Too bad the gauntlet has poor battery life, an AF system not suitable for tracking moving subjects, and comes from a company notorious for not delivering long-term support for its own product lines. :
Ummm...were you referring to the A7 or the M? ;D
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hiplnsdrftr said:
The bummer is that the M didn't miss the mark by much. It's a great camera and gets as much use as any of my DSLRs. I love it for street and travel. Both the 22mm and 18-55 IS are great lenses, especially considering their prices.
Canon stumbled on the original AF algorithms, was timid in the release, was priced too high, and then failed to follow up. If they had fixed the AF sooner, shown some commitment with new lenses, and priced it appropriately for the U.S. market things would have been different.
Now? Who knows. I can't imagine Canon would drop the mount, at least not as long as mirrorless is hot in Asia. But I have no idea if they will ever fully commit to mirrorless and reintroduce it to the U.S. I'm glad I have my M an I'm glad I live in a world where it's easy to order bodies and lenses from overseas.
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dtaylor said:
I think that in the long term, the DSLR will go the way of the film camera. Mirrorless is the future. It is still behind in a few areas, but ahead in others.... eventually mirrorless will win and all those mechanical parts will disappear.
The big question (at least to me) is form factor. Go to big and things get unwieldy very fast... go to small and they start to get hard to hold and quality suffers. The 35mm camera form factor seems to be the sweet spot so my bet is that when things like the 5D??? goes mirrorless it will keep to the same general size.
That said, there is a market for smaller quality cameras. Go to something like an EOS-M and get a few of the compact lenses and you have a decent little system. Give it an adaptor and native support for the big lenses and your system becomes a lot more versatile with no additional work/risk required.
It is good to have a little brother who will not be left as an orphan...
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I don't think it's fair to compare an EOS M to the Sony A7 /A7r. The Sony looks and handles like a DSLR. In the hand it feels solid and well constructed. An expensive piece of engineering.
The M looks and handles like a compact camera. That's what Canon set out to do. It looks simple and small. The opposite of the A7.
Then there's the price difference. Two completely different markets.
The M looks and handles like a compact camera. That's what Canon set out to do. It looks simple and small. The opposite of the A7.
Then there's the price difference. Two completely different markets.
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Zv said:
True. I guess I was just making the point about how Canon doesn't seem to be supporting the mirrorless movement. First with this announcement that the EosM 2 won't be coming to the US, and with my point how they don't seem to care about Sony's aggressive move in the FF mirrorless realm with the A7.
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hiplnsdrftr said:
If canon were smart, they'd make the Rebel line mirrorless. Test the waters by putting it into an already established and popular line. First off, the rebel is already small. Provide adapters for lenses. Bam. Of course this won't happen, but I think eventually Canon will have to answer Sony. Sony won't stop. They are onto something with the A7. The next version of the A7 will be even better. Pretty soon Canon will have a lot of catching up to do if they take their time. True, Sony has its own work to do to get more native lenses for their new system...but with adapters, photographers can use lenses from Canon, Nikon, Leica, voitlander etc...so they actually have more lenses than the big two available.
It also makes sense for Canon to move to mirrorless. Less moving parts. Cheaper faster production.
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Greenmeenie said:
So your saying Canon is dumb? For being number 1 and best selling camera brand on earth. So you are smarter than their engineering and marketing departments. You remind me of when the D800 came out. It was suppose to be a game changer. Sony is noturious of abandoning their product line and probably a company that will go bankcrupt soon. I remember when they came out with the translucent mirror suppose to be a game changer. That can acheive the best FPS on any DSLR. Where are those now. I havent seen any been use on sports photography.
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