*UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]

[canonic]

Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]

Northlight Images has posted a new rumor(info?!):
"Although the AF in the 5D2 replacement is based on the same sensor layout as the 1D X, it is a 'simplified' version.
The dual card setup of the camera is specifically aimed at video users
Just as with the 1DX, clean HDMI is possible."

What could be "simplified version"?
And clean HDMI?

See link:
http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/cameras/Canon_5d3.html

 

[LetTheRightLensIn]

Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]

Northlight Images has posted a new rumor(info?!):
"Although the AF in the 5D2 replacement is based on the same sensor layout as the 1D X, it is a 'simplified' version.
The dual card setup of the camera is specifically aimed at video users
Just as with the 1DX, clean HDMI is possible."

What could be "simplified version"?
And clean HDMI?

See link:
http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/cameras/Canon_5d3.html

Simplified could mean anything from a few minor options missing to it's basically rebel stinking AF quality only now 61pts of it. Let us hope for the former. I think Canon better hope so too considering how good the D800 looks.

I think they mean that as with the 1DX, clean HDMI will also be IMPOSSIBLE. It means no full perfect 1920x1080 with all frames all perfectly on the HDMI out plug. Canon video division insisted the DSLRs have this crippled. D4/D800 didn't cripple it.

 

[moreorless]

Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]

First off, I think JerryFish (Reply #91) did an excellent job studying the MSRP cost difference between the 1Ds/1DX and the 5D series, for the last 3 generations. That Table is very informative and telling. See below.

I would make the following points, regarding the rumored MSRP:

1. Keep in mind that through the upgrades of each of its models (including FF series), Canon has done its best to improve various shortcomings of the previous generation. Even though upgrades do cost money and expense, note that such improvements (whether the Pixel Count, ISO, IQ, AF, Processor, FPS, etc.) did NOT result in overly noticeable MSRP increases. (by the way, that is almost true amongst other manufacturers as well, including Nikon). By improving the previous model’s features, and maintaining (or dropping) the MSRP for the newer model, Canon has done very well in holding or improving its position in the market share.

If were talking exclusively about the 5D line then Canon has not really delt with these "shortcomings" before, the 5D mk2 offered a superior sensor and video over the Mk1 but did not offer a significant improvement in FPS, AF or viewfinder coverage. This new 5D is offering specs that are far closer to the tradisional 1D/1DS market.

3. In its head-to-head competition with Nikon’s D800, Canon cannot reasonably ask for a higher MSRP than D800’s $3,000. That is the not-to-exceed price ceiling. In fact, with D800’s long list of expanded features (36MP, Advanced AF, 16-bit Image Processing & Excellent IQ and Video, Built-In Pop-Up Flash, Automated HDR Mode, In-Camera Audio Monitoring & Headphone Jack, Active D-Lighting, USB 3.0 Connector, etc.), it would be wise for Canon to price its new 5D iii/X conservatively at a lower MSRP than D800’s $3,000. An MSRP of around $2,700, similar to 5D II (upon its introduction) would be reasonable.

Based on the above points, if Canon wishes to enjoy the same success and popularity that it had for its 5D line through the past generations, it should price its new 5D III/X at around $2,700. Otherwise, D800 will win this battle. Simple as that!

In fact, the more I think about the [CR3] report for a MSRP of “Around” $3,500, the more it seems to me that perhaps that price is for a KIT Package, which includes the EF 24-105/f4 L IS II lens. Now, That would make sense

It would definately be more sucessful at a lower price however it seems likey(although neither were mention on the CR3) that this new Canon will offer superior ISO, FPS and posisble AF performance compaired to the D800.

As has been mentioned MRSP isnt street price, tradisionally even brand new products are often avalable for significantly below that level. Nikon seem to have bucked that trend by enforcing the MRSP which has likely resulted in it being significantly lower than it otherwise would have been.

 

[Cannon Man]

Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]

$3500 is completely consistent with my expectations given Canon's new push for profit margins. A basic kit of the 5DIII with the new 24-70 II will set you back $3500+$2400=$5900. The 5DII with old 24-70 is $2000+$1270=$3270 or a difference of $2630. You would get sharper images with better AF but at a very substantial cost. If you're only using the 5DII's center AF point and don't have great technique sticking with the older gear would give you enough savings to purchase a lot more camera gear.

Yes, there is a big price difference compared to 5DII+24-70, but there are BIG improvements in both the new camera and the new lens, the 5D II had the built quality and AF of a 50D and the old 24-70 is not even an L lens compared to the new one.

The prices are very well justified because they are actual products now.

 

[rotanimod]

Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]

Wow.

So I read all 30 pages.

Excited for the announcement.

It sums up to this: If Canon fixes the lousy AF of the 5d M II, then what is there really to complain about? Even that alone is worth the upgrade. Besides all the other bells and whistles.

My hope is they acknowledge the huge demand for extending AEB to 7 or 9 because keeping this exclusively in their 1 series is ridiculous.

 

[canonic]

Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]

My hope is they acknowledge the huge demand for extending AEB to 7 or 9 because keeping this exclusively in their 1 series is ridiculous.

Right. And at least 5 AB frames, i hope.

 

[Grum]

Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]

SandyP, you are in the wrong place at the wrong time.

I feel your pain. But not in a place where you might think.

I'm sure it feels good to pontificate about how real photographers don't hang out on gear forums, they are out Getting The Shot.

But this is a place dedicated to RUMORS about NEW GEAR. Not about technique or composition. Or discussions about how all the good photos were already taken years ago by the Legends of Photography.

And there is an imminent announcement of a eagerly anticipated camera barreling down the pike.

What did you expect to read about coming to this site at this time?

Really, you flatter yourself that only you can see folly in the discussions going on. All the members here are having fun discussing some possibilities.

That is all.

No-one has a problem with reasonable discussion of the rumoured specs of a highly anticipated camera, otherwise why would we be here? There is some interesting discussion and speculation in this thread.

Some of the stuff in this thread and others is beyond ridiculous though - like the guy who started a thread saying 'I'm glad there are no video improvements in the new 5D III'. WTF? And the ridiculous moaning about a price that may or may not be anywhere near correct.

And I maintain that half the people who are obsessing over not getting 36 MPs have no need of them other than for some kind of weird insecurity-based bragging rights.

I'm really not a Canon fanboy and have actually considered switching to Nikon mainly because of the better low-light AF, but I have quite a bit invested in L lenses so I'm not sure if it's worth it. But all the people going 'OMG CANON HOW DARE YOU!!!!! $3500!!!!! YOU'VE BETRAYED ME!!!! D800 PWNS!!' over a rumoured price/bare bones spec list are hilarious tbh.

 

[catz]

Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]

If 5D3 only implements aliasing/moire free video and more resolution on video, I will be more happy to upgrade to 5D3. Even if this was the only improvement on the 5D3 over 5D2, it would be worth every cent.

The other thing I always of course would like to be improved, the dynamic range. It is more important than low light performance. I have been happy with the 5D2 dynamic range since it is much better on it than some other Canon DSLRs, but I would be really happy if it was pushed even greater since I always shoot RAW and edit every picture. That would make amazing possibilities for post-production for the kind of photography I typically do.

 

[CJRodgers]

Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]

If 5D3 only implements aliasing/moire free video and more resolution on video, I will be more happy to upgrade to 5D3. Even if this was the only improvement on the 5D3 over 5D2, it would be worth every cent.

The other thing I always of course would like to be improved, the dynamic range. It is more important than low light performance. I have been happy with the 5D2 dynamic range since it is much better on it than some other Canon DSLRs, but I would be really happy if it was pushed even greater since I always shoot RAW and edit every picture. That would make amazing possibilities for post-production for the kind of photography I typically do.

If thats all you want then look at the anti aliasing filter from http://www.mosaicengineering.com/

This plus a 5dmkii would be much cheaper! Id hope for other improvements such as rolling shutter, maybe 60fps 1080p, improved codec etc from the next model.

 

[wherenextphotography]

Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]

If 5D3 only implements aliasing/moire free video and more resolution on video, I will be more happy to upgrade to 5D3. Even if this was the only improvement on the 5D3 over 5D2, it would be worth every cent.

The other thing I always of course would like to be improved, the dynamic range. It is more important than low light performance. I have been happy with the 5D2 dynamic range since it is much better on it than some other Canon DSLRs, but I would be really happy if it was pushed even greater since I always shoot RAW and edit every picture. That would make amazing possibilities for post-production for the kind of photography I typically do.

If thats all you want then look at the anti aliasing filter from http://www.mosaicengineering.com/

This plus a 5dmkii would be much cheaper! Id hope for other improvements such as rolling shutter, maybe 60fps 1080p, improved codec etc from the next model.

I'm definitely with you on the 1080p 60 and improved rolling shutter. Looking at the C300, I think Canon certainly have the capability to radically reduce rolling shutter, albeit that it'll be a bit trickier to control on a full-frame sensor with 22MP.

Speaking of which, I'm really happy to see the 5D III sit at 22MP. From a stills perspective, that will give me a native 13 x 19 print (as long as I don't crop too heavily) which is the biggest size that I regularly output to. From a video standpoint, 22MP just happens to be the magic number for exact 3x3 "pixel binning" (averaging over a 3x3 group of pixels) when down-scaling from full-res to 1080p video in 16:9 aspect. The 5D Mark II uses line skipping- basically ignoring every few lines of pixels, throwing away a huge amount of information. If this was in Canon's mind when they decided on the resolution, I think we could be in for massive leaps in video quality over the 5D II. I'll take pixel binning over line skipping any day!

I don't think the codec is the limiting factor in the 5D II; you can bump up the bitrate with Magic Lantern but, to my eyes at least, it doesn't really do a lot. I think it's held back more by its very rudimentary down-scaling method and native 3x3 pixel binning would definitely help there. The Panasonic GH2 employs smarter down-scaling and the resolution, aliasing, moire and high ISO performance are much better than the 5D despite its sensor being tiny in comparison. Imagine what proper down-scaling could do on a whopping full frame sensor! Once the down-scaling is sorted, the codec would be the limiting factor so I'll happily take pixel binning AND an improved codec!

The Canon 5D II is almost iconic for its role in starting the video DSLR revolution (with a nod to the Nikon D90 obviously!) so I've got high hopes that Canon will want to smash the pants off of the video quality with the Mark III.

 

[MazV-L]

Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]

Perhaps the price is including the new fancy grip ??? Anyways the price was approximate only, not a definite figure.

 

[catz]

Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]

If 5D3 only implements aliasing/moire free video and more resolution on video, I will be more happy to upgrade to 5D3. Even if this was the only improvement on the 5D3 over 5D2, it would be worth every cent.

The other thing I always of course would like to be improved, the dynamic range. It is more important than low light performance. I have been happy with the 5D2 dynamic range since it is much better on it than some other Canon DSLRs, but I would be really happy if it was pushed even greater since I always shoot RAW and edit every picture. That would make amazing possibilities for post-production for the kind of photography I typically do.

If thats all you want then look at the anti aliasing filter from http://www.mosaicengineering.com/

This plus a 5dmkii would be much cheaper! Id hope for other improvements such as rolling shutter, maybe 60fps 1080p, improved codec etc from the next model.

And suddenly by adding a antialiasing filter that blurs the already blurry video quality the footage starts to look
like RED right? sarcasm: "Oh wow so convinced".

Mosaic engineering antialiasing filter will help but it will not restore the video resolution nowhere near the 1080p because the 5D2 is not resolving more than something between SD and 720p and the crop sensor Canons are even worse. Mosaic engineering filter can make the video look like good moire-free SD, but not like FullHD. I have been seriously considering getting this filter because a moire free SD is better than the moire h*ll of the DSLR footage.

Video resolution has absolutely nothing to do with the codec, 60p or anything like that. The difference between greatly resolving camera and poorly resolving camera is like day and night even if the codec was really poor and if there was web compression also applied. Poorly resolving uncompressed 4444 12 bit raw looks like crap if compared to a camera that has a poor codec of 8 bit h264 in comparison, but that resolves every pixel of the 1920x1080 frame. This is why Panasonic GH2 even without the hack looks much more sharp than the 5D mark II or any other Canon DSLR despite it has really weak codec with very low bit rate (without the hack). The reduced compression will reduce artefacts on the image, but will never ever not make a blurry video look sharp.

People seem to almost religiously believe that lack of compression will solve the problems. This is not the case. Resolution does not come from nowhere if it did not exist in the first place.

You can do this experiement if you like:
- Make a jpeg image with your 5D mark II and scale it to 1920x1080p. Then save it with compression setting that is relative to the compression of the h264. Now take a video of the same subject. Take a still out of the video. Edit both pictures in image editing program like Aperture and match the colors of these two. Now do a blind test between these. Which one is which. Surprise surprise: equally compressed jpeg will look awesome compared to the frame grab from the video. If the 5D3 will resolve perfect 1920x1080 video, then each frame of that video will be as good as this jpeg scaled to 1920x1080.
- I purchased my 5D2 in the early days after it go launched and I thought that it would be great for video. I was greatly disappointed by the lack of resolution after I did the above test myself.

 

[Martin]

Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]

Think it over for last couple of days. If the rumors is true, and there will be no significant changes in ISO, DR I will switch to Nikon once again, hope it's the last time. I perform advanced and long time post processing of my studio works so Nikon seems better in it's files.

 

[atopos]

Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]

Hi !

What about time code
implemented in 5D III ?
Likely ?
1DX has it.

 

[Grum]

Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]

If the rumors is true, and there will be no significant changes in ISO, DR

Where in the rumours does it say that!!?

 

[Martin]

Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]

If:

1.the rumors is true (22mpix, only better AF, price tag)
2. and nothing changes in other parameters (nothing about this in rumor)

 

[CJRodgers]

Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]

If 5D3 only implements aliasing/moire free video and more resolution on video, I will be more happy to upgrade to 5D3. Even if this was the only improvement on the 5D3 over 5D2, it would be worth every cent.

The other thing I always of course would like to be improved, the dynamic range. It is more important than low light performance. I have been happy with the 5D2 dynamic range since it is much better on it than some other Canon DSLRs, but I would be really happy if it was pushed even greater since I always shoot RAW and edit every picture. That would make amazing possibilities for post-production for the kind of photography I typically do.

If thats all you want then look at the anti aliasing filter from http://www.mosaicengineering.com/

This plus a 5dmkii would be much cheaper! Id hope for other improvements such as rolling shutter, maybe 60fps 1080p, improved codec etc from the next model.

And suddenly by adding a antialiasing filter that blurs the already blurry video quality the footage starts to look
like RED right? sarcasm: "Oh wow so convinced".

Mosaic engineering antialiasing filter will help but it will not restore the video resolution nowhere near the 1080p because the 5D2 is not resolving more than something between SD and 720p and the crop sensor Canons are even worse. Mosaic engineering filter can make the video look like good moire-free SD, but not like FullHD. I have been seriously considering getting this filter because a moire free SD is better than the moire h*ll of the DSLR footage.

Video resolution has absolutely nothing to do with the codec, 60p or anything like that. The difference between greatly resolving camera and poorly resolving camera is like day and night even if the codec was really poor and if there was web compression also applied. Poorly resolving uncompressed 4444 12 bit raw looks like crap if compared to a camera that has a poor codec of 8 bit h264 in comparison, but that resolves every pixel of the 1920x1080 frame. This is why Panasonic GH2 even without the hack looks much more sharp than the 5D mark II or any other Canon DSLR despite it has really weak codec with very low bit rate (without the hack). The reduced compression will reduce artefacts on the image, but will never ever not make a blurry video look sharp.

People seem to almost religiously believe that lack of compression will solve the problems. This is not the case. Resolution does not come from nowhere if it did not exist in the first place.

You can do this experiement if you like:
- Make a jpeg image with your 5D mark II and scale it to 1920x1080p. Then save it with compression setting that is relative to the compression of the h264. Now take a video of the same subject. Take a still out of the video. Edit both pictures in image editing program like Aperture and match the colors of these two. Now do a blind test between these. Which one is which. Surprise surprise: equally compressed jpeg will look awesome compared to the frame grab from the video. If the 5D3 will resolve perfect 1920x1080 video, then each frame of that video will be as good as this jpeg scaled to 1920x1080.
- I purchased my 5D2 in the early days after it go launched and I thought that it would be great for video. I was greatly disappointed by the lack of resolution after I did the above test myself.

Yes i do agree with you. Gh2 is much sharper. If only the colours were nearly as nice as canons. I think if there is a big price increase in this latest 5d version, it could be due to highly improved video features of which there are no details. So whilst everyone is upset that the price is possibly so high, it might be justified with excellent video quality as well as the af improvement for stills. This will annoy the people who only want this as a stills camera if they have to bare the increase in price due to superior video features.

 

[atopos]

Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]

Canon EOS-1D X

What else will 5DIII borrow from 1DX, You suppose ?

 

[Autocall]

Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]

absolutely NO mention is made about the sensor' size in the specs.
Could very well be the 7D II.
Anyone think the same?

 

[Rank_90]

Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]

absolutely NO mention is made about the sensor' size in the specs.
Could very well be the 7D II.
Anyone think the same?

lol Errr No