Update to EOS 5DS & 5DS R Coming in 2017? [CR1]

[ahsanford]

Re: Update to EOS 5DS & 5DS R Coming in 2017? [CR1]

I don't think anyone belives Canon will replace the 5D series with mirrorless any time soon, nor do I think that's being suggested.

I do think it's certainly possible for Canon to bring out a FF MILC within two years. Most likely it would be at the 6D level, not aimed at the 'pro' market. Being possible doesn't mean it will be done, climbing Mt. Everest because it's there isn't necessarily a sound business strategy.

+1. Between progress in various areas (DPAF, EVF, controls in a EOS-M5 form factor, etc.) the tech is there to get a ship out of port, but it may not be the prettiest ship out there. Battery life, handling and general responsiveness will not be of the 5D's (or even the 6D's) spit and polish, but it will take lovely images if you can cope with that.

And no one on the planet is suggesting a future 5D5 (or 5DS3) will only come out in mirrorless. That would be madness. Far more likely Canon makes a FF mirrorless it's own brand (or sub-brand) to be sold either standalone of any 5D/5Ds/6D developments or to be sold immediately alongside those brands as another option.

I also cling to the zany theory that a new FF mirrorless might hit the market with a fixed lens like the Sony RX1 and Leica Q brands. This will let Canon get the enthusiasts a bleeding edge offering while they can continue to evolve the interchangeable mount... which may or may not be new.

- A

 

[Mikehit]

Re: Update to EOS 5DS & 5DS R Coming in 2017? [CR1]

intriguing comments.. could they / would they decide that the 5Ds Mark II is mirrorless? is there actually an advantage of it being that way?

I can't see it "quite" yet .. however I think the key will be the 6D - if it is going for smaller and lighter, that may be a good change to make the first EF mount mirrorless camera. You'd think that since the 6D isn't built for high performance AF they could roll with this. it makes the camera smaller, and lighter and cheaper to manufacturer.

Canon rolling out the first $1600 full frame camera? possible? *before sony fans snivel.. no A7 series camera was announced at less than $1699. what sony is trying to dump them for now because no one wants them is not relevant.

Then you have the 6D as the mirrorless 24-28MP option

The 5D IV and 5Ds Mark II still OVF until the next version which would then most likely move to mirrorless hybrid.

That seems reasonable - I guess it depends on how much their mirrorless technologies advanced in the time since they started laying the groundwork for the M5. Several have said that the M5 is expensive for what it is but if it was the test bed for the next 6D that could make sense.

 

[rrcphoto]

Re: Update to EOS 5DS & 5DS R Coming in 2017? [CR1]

intriguing comments.. could they / would they decide that the 5Ds Mark II is mirrorless? is there actually an advantage of it being that way?

I can't see it "quite" yet .. however I think the key will be the 6D - if it is going for smaller and lighter, that may be a good change to make the first EF mount mirrorless camera. You'd think that since the 6D isn't built for high performance AF they could roll with this. it makes the camera smaller, and lighter and cheaper to manufacturer.

Canon rolling out the first $1600 full frame camera? possible? *before sony fans snivel.. no A7 series camera was announced at less than $1699. what sony is trying to dump them for now because no one wants them is not relevant.

Then you have the 6D as the mirrorless 24-28MP option

The 5D IV and 5Ds Mark II still OVF until the next version which would then most likely move to mirrorless hybrid.

That seems reasonable - I guess it depends on how much their mirrorless technologies advanced in the time since they started laying the groundwork for the M5. Several have said that the M5 is expensive for what it is but if it was the test bed for the next 6D that could make sense.

time to R&D the 6D would be somewhere around 2-3 years .. hard to say really.

 

[GMCPhotographics]

Re: Update to EOS 5DS & 5DS R Coming in 2017? [CR1]

There are couple of things that if made available in 5dsr II would really make landscape (and not only) photographers happy:

1. improved dynamic range for capturing high contrast / high dynamic range "too well" lit scene to eliminate multiple exposures when possible.

2. colour depth: 16 bits (65,536 levels per channel) for extra smooth gradients and light fall off, etc,etc ..

apparently, these two points were convincing enough for many photographers (that can afford) to purchase the Mamiya 645DF+ Camera that offers 12.5 stops of Dynamic range and 16 bit per channel colour depth even at 0.7 - 1.1 frames/sec speed

My use of the camera is primarily in well-lit conditions and I am delighted with the quality of the current sensor. The only thing I'd like is to have even more pixels.

I've not met a single photographer that feels that the "lack of DR" is SO important in issue that they buy a 645 camera and system...every...EVERY photographer that I know that is either pro, semi pro or rich and serious hobbyist shoots 2 frames are different exposures and combines in Photoshop. I do not know of a single photographer who has a 645 as you described. You must know some very weird and unusual photographers.

 

[ricky_005]

Re: Update to EOS 5DS & 5DS R Coming in 2017? [CR1]

Canon 5D Mark IV Cheap CMOS Image Sensor Exposed
If you under expose a picture and adjust the exposure up 5 stops it can expose the defect in Canons New CMOS Image Sensor.

See Attached Image: The exposure has been increased 5 stops so you can see the defects. See the strips in the image? This is exposing a Horrible inconsistency in the new canon sensor.

Expect the same results in the New 5DS replacement?

 

[Loswr]

Re: Update to EOS 5DS & 5DS R Coming in 2017? [CR1]

 

[privatebydesign]

Re: Update to EOS 5DS & 5DS R Coming in 2017? [CR1]

• Canon is like a snake which slithers through the grass hunting for pry, unfortunately we are their victims.
  
• The company trades on the NYSE and only concerned about the maximum amount of blood they can take without killing the victim.
  
• They don't believe in being leaders in photo technology, only leaders in reliable gear?
  
• They don't wont to compete, as that's bad for profits, so they follow behind the leaders as not to push them forward.
  
• Decisions at what pace photo technology progress are discussed in Private Meetings. example: Canon, Nikon & Sony board members having dinner together. I guess none of the cell phone manufactures are dinning with them but SHOULD BE.
  

Lugging around Thousands of dollars in heavy glass and a iPhone user asking: What are you Smoking?

iPhone 7 Photo attaached Below....

Now that is an excellent example of the limitations of phone cameras. With a scene like that you can't beat a decent sized sensor, thanks for making the point so well.

 

[Loswr]

Re: Update to EOS 5DS & 5DS R Coming in 2017? [CR1]

• Canon is like a snake which slithers through the grass hunting for pry, unfortunately we are their victims.
  
• The company trades on the NYSE and only concerned about the maximum amount of blood they can take without killing the victim.
  
• They don't believe in being leaders in photo technology, only leaders in reliable gear?
  
• They don't wont to compete, as that's bad for profits, so they follow behind the leaders as not to push them forward.
  
• Decisions at what pace photo technology progress are discussed in Private Meetings. example: Canon, Nikon & Sony board members having dinner together. I guess none of the cell phone manufactures are dinning with them but SHOULD BE.
  

Lugging around Thousands of dollars in heavy glass and a iPhone user asking: What are you Smoking?

iPhone 7 Photo attaached Below....

Now that is an excellent example of the limitations of phone cameras. With a scene like that you can't beat a decent sized sensor, thanks for making the point so well.

I thought it looked almost ok when I viewed it on my iPhone.

 

[ricky_005]

Re: Update to EOS 5DS & 5DS R Coming in 2017? [CR1]

I knew speaking the truth would bring out the Canon Shill's

Hahaha

 

[ahsanford]

Re: Update to EOS 5DS & 5DS R Coming in 2017? [CR1]

Canon 5D Mark IV Cheap CMOS Image Sensor Exposed
If you under expose a picture and adjust the exposure up 5 stops it can expose the defect in Canons New CMOS Image Sensor.

See Attached Image: The exposure has been increased 5 stops so you can see the defects. See the strips in the image? This is exposing a Horrible inconsistency in the new canon sensor.

Expect the same results in the New 5DS replacement?

Yeah... I'm one of those weirdos that tries to appropriately expose his images. I fully see the point you are making, but when you expose the shot properly, you don't need to push things 5 stops and that issue doesn't ever materialize. It's a neat parlour trick if your sensor allows it, but I don't need to save a wedding shot that I accidentally horrifically underexposed because I am not a pro.

I will admit the absolutely bush league move of occasionally *not* stitching together multiple exposures (as GMC said earlier) and doing the dreaded 'single shot HDR' move of a large highlight pull and shadow push in the same RAW file, but that's usually when I'm shooting comically contrasty scenes and a tripod is not possible or practical (like hiking in canyons with sky in frame). But when I do this, I make sure not to hammer the RAW sliders so hard as to render the image unrealistic.

- A

 

[Loswr]

Re: Update to EOS 5DS & 5DS R Coming in 2017? [CR1]

I knew speaking the truth would bring out the Canon Shill's
Hahaha

Odd that DPR's 6-stop push of a 5DIV image doesn't show banding. But that's ok, you've shown us the truth. : : :

 

[ricky_005]

Re: Update to EOS 5DS & 5DS R Coming in 2017? [CR1]

I knew speaking the truth would bring out the Canon Shill's
Hahaha

Odd that DPR's 6-stop push of a 5DIV image doesn't show banding. But that's ok, you've shown us the truth. : : :

Apparently only when a image is underexposed then pushed 5 stops or so in photo editing software it shows the horrible defect. Sony sensors don't exhibit this behavior, the noise is Even and Consistent. Older Canon sensor did not exhibit this behavior, Canon screwed something up with this new sensor! Even when exposure is correct the quality of the pixels in the problem areas of the sensor are of lower quality!

 

[Jack Douglas]

Re: Update to EOS 5DS & 5DS R Coming in 2017? [CR1]

Like cockroaches coming out of the cracks, pretty harmless but annoying.

Jack

 

[j-nord]

Re: Update to EOS 5DS & 5DS R Coming in 2017? [CR1]

Canon 5D Mark IV Cheap CMOS Image Sensor Exposed
If you under expose a picture and adjust the exposure up 5 stops it can expose the defect in Canons New CMOS Image Sensor.

See Attached Image: The exposure has been increased 5 stops so you can see the defects. See the strips in the image? This is exposing a Horrible inconsistency in the new canon sensor.

Expect the same results in the New 5DS replacement?

I will admit the absolutely bush league move of occasionally *not* stitching together multiple exposures (as GMC said earlier) and doing the dreaded 'single shot HDR' move of a large highlight pull and shadow push in the same RAW file, but that's usually when I'm shooting comically contrasty scenes and a tripod is not possible or practical (like hiking in canyons with sky in frame). But when I do this, I make sure not to hammer the RAW sliders so hard as to render the image unrealistic.

- A

I often heavily pull/push highlights/shadows in Lightroom without producing a 'comical HDR look'. At least, I don't think so, this one might be borderline:

Maroon Bells by Justin Nordgaard - very busy, on Flickr

 

[ahsanford]

Re: Update to EOS 5DS & 5DS R Coming in 2017? [CR1]

Apparently only when a image is underexposed then pushed 5 stops or so in photo editing software it shows the horrible defect. Sony sensors don't exhibit this behavior, the noise is Even and Consistent. Older Canon sensor did not exhibit this behavior, Canon screwed something up with this new sensor! Even when exposure is correct the quality of the pixels in the problem areas of the sensor are of lower quality!

You know, I never thought of it that way! That's a sterling point you've made.

I think I'll go throw all of my Canon gear off of a bridge -- and myself, while I'm at it.

Or I could expose my shots properly and disregard the ravings of someone with _005 in their ID and less than 10 posts to their name. :

- A

 

[ahsanford]

Re: Update to EOS 5DS & 5DS R Coming in 2017? [CR1]

I often heavily pull/push highlights/shadows in Lightroom without producing a 'comical HDR look'. At least, I don't think so, this one might be borderline:

Maroon Bells by Justin Nordgaard - very busy, on Flickr

You are far from alone with shots like that. Happens to me all the time.

I just spent a roadtrip in Zion, Bryce and Death Valley, and since I was hiking with non-photographers, things like scouting locations, golden hour, ISO 100, LiveView AF, hyperfocal distances, tripods, ND grads, etc. were replaced with glaring mid-day sun, run-and-gun, handheld, f/8 - f/11, auto-ISO, and more three shot brackets than you can count. You make do with what you can.

- A

 

[ricky_005]

Re: Update to EOS 5DS & 5DS R Coming in 2017? [CR1]

I knew speaking the truth would bring out the Canon Shill's
Hahaha

Odd that DPR's 6-stop push of a 5DIV image doesn't show banding. But that's ok, you've shown us the truth. : : :

Here is a video in which Matt Granger stumbled across the same horrible image sensor problem with the new Canon 5D Mark IV.

Discussion around the 13:00 mark https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RmfMLeB3lJw

Nikon's pic the guys shirt is blue which is close to original, The canon pic the guys shirt in the video turned turd GREEN and Matt says ........ Nikon colors went all blue and unnatural and the canon stayed true...LMAO

 

[unfocused]

Re: Update to EOS 5DS & 5DS R Coming in 2017? [CR1]

Canon 5D Mark IV Cheap CMOS Image Sensor Exposed
If you under expose a picture and adjust the exposure up 5 stops it can expose the defect in Canons New CMOS Image Sensor...

This is a joke, right?

If you underexposed the image and pushed it five stops in post and it is still that dark, then the original was probably more like eight to 10 stops underexposed.

I don't go around purposely underexposing, but it does happen on occasion.

I can't speak for the 5DIV, but I had an experience with the 1DX II (same generation and fabrication for the sensor) in which I didn't give the strobe enough time to recycle and got some frames that were significantly underexposed. That happens because I'm sometimes a little impatient with the speedlites. Just as an experiment I decided to try to salvage a few. I was actually able to get them looking decent by upping the exposure in Adobe Camera Raw. Now, they weren't really usable, because the lighting was ambient, rather than the strobes, but I was actually surprised that what looked almost completely black in Raw, looked pretty decent once I upped the exposure, contrast, shadows, etc.

So, back to may original question: You are joking, right?

 

[Loswr]

Re: Update to EOS 5DS & 5DS R Coming in 2017? [CR1]

I knew speaking the truth would bring out the Canon Shill's
Hahaha

Odd that DPR's 6-stop push of a 5DIV image doesn't show banding. But that's ok, you've shown us the truth. : : :

Apparently only when a image is underexposed then pushed 5 stops or so in photo editing software it shows the horrible defect. Sony sensors don't exhibit this behavior, the noise is Even and Consistent. Older Canon sensor did not exhibit this behavior, Canon screwed something up with this new sensor! Even when exposure is correct the quality of the pixels in the problem areas of the sensor are of lower quality!

DPR's image was underexposed by 6 stops then pushed in post. Where's the horrible defect? As biased as DPR's writing can be, they are generally decent at producing studio test images. So who screwed something up, here?

 

[ricky_005]

Re: Update to EOS 5DS & 5DS R Coming in 2017? [CR1]

I knew speaking the truth would bring out the Canon Shill's
Hahaha

Odd that DPR's 6-stop push of a 5DIV image doesn't show banding. But that's ok, you've shown us the truth. : : :

Apparently only when a image is underexposed then pushed 5 stops or so in photo editing software it shows the horrible defect. Sony sensors don't exhibit this behavior, the noise is Even and Consistent. Older Canon sensor did not exhibit this behavior, Canon screwed something up with this new sensor! Even when exposure is correct the quality of the pixels in the problem areas of the sensor are of lower quality!

DPR's image was underexposed by 6 stops then pushed in post. Where's the horrible defect? As biased as DPR's writing can be, they are generally decent at producing studio test images. So who screwed something up, here?

I know the truth can hurt Shill ........ watch Matts video or is the truth to painful for ya?

Discussion around the 13:00 mark https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RmfMLeB3lJw