Update to EOS 5DS & 5DS R Coming in 2017? [CR1]
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Re: Update to EOS 5DS & 5DS R Coming in 2017? [CR1]
The video shows that Canon beats the sonikon sensor at 4 stops. Colors are WAY better with the Canon. It must hurt a DR junky like you.
ricky_005 said:neuroanatomist said:ricky_005 said:neuroanatomist said:ricky_005 said:
Odd that DPR's 6-stop push of a 5DIV image doesn't show banding. But that's ok, you've shown us the truth. ::
Apparently only when a image is underexposed then pushed 5 stops or so in photo editing software it shows the horrible defect. Sony sensors don't exhibit this behavior, the noise is Even and Consistent. Older Canon sensor did not exhibit this behavior, Canon screwed something up with this new sensor! Even when exposure is correct the quality of the pixels in the problem areas of the sensor are of lower quality!
DPR's image was underexposed by 6 stops then pushed in post. Where's the horrible defect? As biased as DPR's writing can be, they are generally decent at producing studio test images. So who screwed something up, here?
I know the truth can hurt Shill ........ watch Matts video or is the truth to painful for ya?
Discussion around the 13:00 mark https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RmfMLeB3lJw
The video shows that Canon beats the sonikon sensor at 4 stops. Colors are WAY better with the Canon. It must hurt a DR junky like you.
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Re: Update to EOS 5DS & 5DS R Coming in 2017? [CR1]
Wonder if Canon will ever incorporate/design a foveon type sensor or allow both half of a dual pixel sensor to work independently?
This could increase effective resolution by 2-3 (Foveon sensor) and boost DR by 4-5 stops
Rich
Wonder if Canon will ever incorporate/design a foveon type sensor or allow both half of a dual pixel sensor to work independently?
This could increase effective resolution by 2-3 (Foveon sensor) and boost DR by 4-5 stops
Rich
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unfocused
Photos/Photo Book Reviews: www.thecuriouseye.com
Re: Update to EOS 5DS & 5DS R Coming in 2017? [CR1]
This is funny. Funny as in ha! ha!
The video purports to show that the Canon is better at four stops underexposed (using ISO 800 as the base), but at five stops underexposed, the Nikon is better. So, I guess the lesson to be learned is that if you are going to underexpose your ISO 800 shots by four stops, use a Canon, but if you are going to underexpose your shots by five stops, use a Nikon.
Now, if you are a real weirdo and you actually expose your shots properly, then you can apparently use either one. But, really, who would do that when you can severely underexpose your shots?
Larsskv said:
This is funny. Funny as in ha! ha!
The video purports to show that the Canon is better at four stops underexposed (using ISO 800 as the base), but at five stops underexposed, the Nikon is better. So, I guess the lesson to be learned is that if you are going to underexpose your ISO 800 shots by four stops, use a Canon, but if you are going to underexpose your shots by five stops, use a Nikon.
Now, if you are a real weirdo and you actually expose your shots properly, then you can apparently use either one. But, really, who would do that when you can severely underexpose your shots?
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Re: Update to EOS 5DS & 5DS R Coming in 2017? [CR1]
So this is a 5 stop lift in 8 bit JPEG ?
Yawn :
So this is a 5 stop lift in 8 bit JPEG ?
Yawn :
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Re: Update to EOS 5DS & 5DS R Coming in 2017? [CR1]
I certainly thought that was odd as well.
Youtube personalities can be valuable sometimes, but they all seem to have a hard time with technical subjects at some point.
I'd still say Matt is one of the most level headed people on there though.
Sporgon said:So this is a 5 stop lift in 8 bit JPEG ?
Yawn :
I certainly thought that was odd as well.
Youtube personalities can be valuable sometimes, but they all seem to have a hard time with technical subjects at some point.
I'd still say Matt is one of the most level headed people on there though.
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Loswr
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Re: Update to EOS 5DS & 5DS R Coming in 2017? [CR1]
Indeed.
ricky_005 said:
9VIII said:Sporgon said:So this is a 5 stop lift in 8 bit JPEG ?
Yawn :
I certainly thought that was odd as well.
Youtube personalities can be valuable sometimes, but they all seem to have a hard time with technical subjects at some point.
Indeed.
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Re: Update to EOS 5DS & 5DS R Coming in 2017? [CR1]
Matt is one of many good reviewers on you tube. He showed you the truth about the MARK IV if you watch the video but you have to keep in mind Canon gives Matt perks in the form of gifts etc. (Read Between the lines)
This thread if you noticed we have Canon Shills trying to discredit facts ..... We know who you are Bone Heads!
9VIII said:Sporgon said:So this is a 5 stop lift in 8 bit JPEG ?
Yawn :
I certainly thought that was odd as well.
Youtube personalities can be valuable sometimes, but they all seem to have a hard time with technical subjects at some point.
I'd still say Matt is one of the most level headed people on there though.
Matt is one of many good reviewers on you tube. He showed you the truth about the MARK IV if you watch the video but you have to keep in mind Canon gives Matt perks in the form of gifts etc. (Read Between the lines)
This thread if you noticed we have Canon Shills trying to discredit facts ..... We know who you are Bone Heads!
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Re: Update to EOS 5DS & 5DS R Coming in 2017? [CR1]
his head might be level, the rest of matt is well ehmm less level...
ricky_005 said:9VIII said:Sporgon said:So this is a 5 stop lift in 8 bit JPEG ?
Yawn :
I certainly thought that was odd as well.
Youtube personalities can be valuable sometimes, but they all seem to have a hard time with technical subjects at some point.
I'd still say Matt is one of the most level headed people on there though.
Matt is one of many good reviewers on you tube. He showed you the truth about the MARK IV if you watch the video but you have to keep in mind Canon gives Matt perks in the form of gifts etc. (Read Between the lines)
This thread if you noticed we have Canon Shills trying to discredit facts ..... We know who you are Bone Heads!
his head might be level, the rest of matt is well ehmm less level...
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Loswr
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Re: Update to EOS 5DS & 5DS R Coming in 2017? [CR1]
Then why does DPR get drastically different results – no banding – with an even stronger push in post? Hey Ricky, why don't you pull a rabbit out of your hat and explain that one…
It seems there's more than one version of 'truth'. Did you know that gullible isn't in the dictionary?
ricky_005 said:
Then why does DPR get drastically different results – no banding – with an even stronger push in post? Hey Ricky, why don't you pull a rabbit out of your hat and explain that one…
It seems there's more than one version of 'truth'. Did you know that gullible isn't in the dictionary?
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Re: Update to EOS 5DS & 5DS R Coming in 2017? [CR1]
Have to step in, neuroanatomist, which should not come as a surprise to you: Alex was talking about photographers that deserve the title. He was not talking about wannabees, sales representatives or shortsighted shareholders both complimenting themselves on past successes.
Yet even the wannabees or amateurs (in the best sense) would we impressed through reviews of true photographers if these were to claim that Canon had made a big step in the direction of medium format dynamic range and colordepth wise.
If Canon could credibly run a campain under the motto "We care about photography" rather than "We care about sales" they'd be back on track for the long run. Credibility is earned through the approval of the most critical of minds (That is btw why Fujifilm GFX will succeed).
I don't say that Canon is doomed. But sometimes it comes across that they lost focus in photographers. And that troubles me. I wish for Canon to correct this rather sooner than later.
As you know I want it all. So I am hoping that rather than crippling the 5Dsr, they will give it every effort (including flippytilt, DR, weather sealing and high fps) and raise the price if they really have to. I see it as a duty of each company that they show what they can do. This bright light will shine onto all their other products. That was the case with the EOS-1n for example or now with the Silberpfeil for Mercedes-Benz. I believe it will help to generate sales of lower profiled products in the line-up.
neuroanatomist said:
Have to step in, neuroanatomist, which should not come as a surprise to you: Alex was talking about photographers that deserve the title. He was not talking about wannabees, sales representatives or shortsighted shareholders both complimenting themselves on past successes.
Yet even the wannabees or amateurs (in the best sense) would we impressed through reviews of true photographers if these were to claim that Canon had made a big step in the direction of medium format dynamic range and colordepth wise.
If Canon could credibly run a campain under the motto "We care about photography" rather than "We care about sales" they'd be back on track for the long run. Credibility is earned through the approval of the most critical of minds (That is btw why Fujifilm GFX will succeed).
I don't say that Canon is doomed. But sometimes it comes across that they lost focus in photographers. And that troubles me. I wish for Canon to correct this rather sooner than later.
As you know I want it all. So I am hoping that rather than crippling the 5Dsr, they will give it every effort (including flippytilt, DR, weather sealing and high fps) and raise the price if they really have to. I see it as a duty of each company that they show what they can do. This bright light will shine onto all their other products. That was the case with the EOS-1n for example or now with the Silberpfeil for Mercedes-Benz. I believe it will help to generate sales of lower profiled products in the line-up.
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Re: Update to EOS 5DS & 5DS R Coming in 2017? [CR1]
If they can remove the DPAF to get back another stop of low ISO DR, but also put in high quality over-sampled 4k video like Sony (with manual focusing aids like a 2x zoomed 2:1 live focusing box ala Magic Lantern and basically any usable camera in the world). Get it to hit 6fps FF mode and 7-8fps in a 1.6x cropped (IN RAW not the ridiculous cropped JPG mode which is useless) mode. That would be sweet.
I'm loving the performance from Sony but even for landscape stuff there is a downside. The electronic VF. Now strictly speaking is actually better for photography in a way, better focus confirmation, etc. etc. BUT it makes the experience worse. It turns being out in nature from a mix of looking around and shooting but still directly seeing with one eye, the world, into starting at a screen for yet endless more hours and after a year I can now say that is what annoys me the most in the end about a switch from using a Sony a lot more than a Canon 5D3.
It's just a nicer, more outdoorsy experience to use a regular SLR-type VF than an electronic one (even if the latter is in certain ways a bit better for photography at times).
If they can remove the DPAF to get back another stop of low ISO DR, but also put in high quality over-sampled 4k video like Sony (with manual focusing aids like a 2x zoomed 2:1 live focusing box ala Magic Lantern and basically any usable camera in the world). Get it to hit 6fps FF mode and 7-8fps in a 1.6x cropped (IN RAW not the ridiculous cropped JPG mode which is useless) mode. That would be sweet.
I'm loving the performance from Sony but even for landscape stuff there is a downside. The electronic VF. Now strictly speaking is actually better for photography in a way, better focus confirmation, etc. etc. BUT it makes the experience worse. It turns being out in nature from a mix of looking around and shooting but still directly seeing with one eye, the world, into starting at a screen for yet endless more hours and after a year I can now say that is what annoys me the most in the end about a switch from using a Sony a lot more than a Canon 5D3.
It's just a nicer, more outdoorsy experience to use a regular SLR-type VF than an electronic one (even if the latter is in certain ways a bit better for photography at times).
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unfocused
Photos/Photo Book Reviews: www.thecuriouseye.com
Re: Update to EOS 5DS & 5DS R Coming in 2017? [CR1]
I try...I really do...but sometimes people say such incredibly ridiculous things that I have to "step in."
Just what do you think constitutes a "true photographer?"
There are many definitions, but it is inarguable (at least inarguable with anyone of normal intelligence) that the highest definition of a photographer would be someone whose work has been so broadly recognized that there is little to no doubt that his or her work will outlast their lifetime and will speak to people across the decades.
A few names obviously pop to mind: Edward Weston, Paul Strand, Robert Frank, Irving Penn, Dorothea Lange, Robert Capa, Henri Cartier-Bresson, Garry Winogrand, Jerry Uelsmann, Martin Parr...to name a handful.
Some of these "true photographers" were excellent craftspeople. Others, not so much. The common denominator is vision, not technical perfection. Indeed, some like Robert Frank, Cartier-Bresson and Garry Winogrand produced images that were far from technically perfect (although their vision often was perfect).
I know this is a geek forum and people here often equate technical virtuosity and pretty pictures with quality, but they are not the same. There are many, many photographers today whose work might be considered technically perfect, but you can rest assured that they will be long forgotten, while the true greats will continue to be studied, displayed and collected.
So please, spare me your ignorant remarks about "true photographers."
fussy III said:
I try...I really do...but sometimes people say such incredibly ridiculous things that I have to "step in."
Just what do you think constitutes a "true photographer?"
There are many definitions, but it is inarguable (at least inarguable with anyone of normal intelligence) that the highest definition of a photographer would be someone whose work has been so broadly recognized that there is little to no doubt that his or her work will outlast their lifetime and will speak to people across the decades.
A few names obviously pop to mind: Edward Weston, Paul Strand, Robert Frank, Irving Penn, Dorothea Lange, Robert Capa, Henri Cartier-Bresson, Garry Winogrand, Jerry Uelsmann, Martin Parr...to name a handful.
Some of these "true photographers" were excellent craftspeople. Others, not so much. The common denominator is vision, not technical perfection. Indeed, some like Robert Frank, Cartier-Bresson and Garry Winogrand produced images that were far from technically perfect (although their vision often was perfect).
I know this is a geek forum and people here often equate technical virtuosity and pretty pictures with quality, but they are not the same. There are many, many photographers today whose work might be considered technically perfect, but you can rest assured that they will be long forgotten, while the true greats will continue to be studied, displayed and collected.
So please, spare me your ignorant remarks about "true photographers."
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Loswr
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Re: Update to EOS 5DS & 5DS R Coming in 2017? [CR1]
If you want to make yourself look foolish, that's your choice.
Alex highlighted the fact that one of his main criteria was 'can afford'. So, you seem to be saying that commercial success or independent wealth is what makes photographers deserving of the title. Sounds elitist and narrow-minded. How sad.
That's actually quite laughable. As a publicly traded company, Fujifilm has the same goal – and legal mandate – as Canon: strive to return value to shareholders. They have chosen the market segments in which they engage, in large part, because Canon and Nikon do not dominate those market segments. If you believe any for-profit camera maker can legitimately state they "care about photography," (as opposed to caring about profiting from the sale of photography gear), then you have the kind of highly suggestible mind that marketing departments love.
Comes across to whom? You? "Many photographers?" Yeah, you're stepping in it all right…you can scrape it off your shoes, but the smell won't go away.
fussy III said:
If you want to make yourself look foolish, that's your choice.
fussy III said:
Alex highlighted the fact that one of his main criteria was 'can afford'. So, you seem to be saying that commercial success or independent wealth is what makes photographers deserving of the title. Sounds elitist and narrow-minded. How sad.
fussy III said:
That's actually quite laughable. As a publicly traded company, Fujifilm has the same goal – and legal mandate – as Canon: strive to return value to shareholders. They have chosen the market segments in which they engage, in large part, because Canon and Nikon do not dominate those market segments. If you believe any for-profit camera maker can legitimately state they "care about photography," (as opposed to caring about profiting from the sale of photography gear), then you have the kind of highly suggestible mind that marketing departments love.
fussy III said:
Comes across to whom? You? "Many photographers?" Yeah, you're stepping in it all right…you can scrape it off your shoes, but the smell won't go away.
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Re: Update to EOS 5DS & 5DS R Coming in 2017? [CR1]
Completely right!
By the way, i played around with the 5d4 raw -underexposed leaves against a sunset- shot from the dpreview gallery.
I can get it to show the banding in the leaves when pushing 3 stops and maxing the shadows slider.
It's an extreme case but it does create a limit to pushing the shadows. A Nikon will be able to recover a little more. Big deal. Were talking scenarios where on a Nikon i probably would only use it when converting to black and white anyway because also on a Nikon pushing 5 stops introduces just enough really weird colour in the darks that's hard to correct.
On Another note: When pushing a d810 file 5 stops or so at 400 iso +, it also shows lighter banding around the bottom quarter of the frame, only this is a magenta haze and less of a multicolour banding. Also has dot correct just a little less obvious. (look at the iso invarience comparison at 5 stop push).
edit : even iso 100 pushed 4 stops has this magenta cast at the bottom part.
Normalnorm said:
Completely right!
By the way, i played around with the 5d4 raw -underexposed leaves against a sunset- shot from the dpreview gallery.
I can get it to show the banding in the leaves when pushing 3 stops and maxing the shadows slider.
It's an extreme case but it does create a limit to pushing the shadows. A Nikon will be able to recover a little more. Big deal. Were talking scenarios where on a Nikon i probably would only use it when converting to black and white anyway because also on a Nikon pushing 5 stops introduces just enough really weird colour in the darks that's hard to correct.
On Another note: When pushing a d810 file 5 stops or so at 400 iso +, it also shows lighter banding around the bottom quarter of the frame, only this is a magenta haze and less of a multicolour banding. Also has dot correct just a little less obvious. (look at the iso invarience comparison at 5 stop push).
edit : even iso 100 pushed 4 stops has this magenta cast at the bottom part.
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Re: Update to EOS 5DS & 5DS R Coming in 2017? [CR1]
I do not want to start an argument, but would Joe Brady qualify as a "single photographer who has 645"?
others: Neil Folberg, Robb Williamson, David Levinthal, D'Milo Hallerberg, ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4iiKcuv_is
at 27:40 mark. explanation 16 bit vs 14 bit benefit.
and yes, multiple exposure technique works really well in uncontrolled light situation.. most of time, but not always...(wild life, fast changing lighting conditions, moving clouds, other fast moving subjects in the frame, etc..)
all I said is: 16 bit colour per channel and improved camera dynamic range at base ISO will be great to have .. yes, beneficial but not a requirement. I shoot with 6D and can do just fine with it. That said, I would love to shoot with Mamiya 645 instead. I cannot afford the camera though ...
https://www.sigmaphoto.com/photo-galleries/photosharesm/roof-top-parking-crown-casino-melbourne-au
I do not want to start an argument, but would Joe Brady qualify as a "single photographer who has 645"?
others: Neil Folberg, Robb Williamson, David Levinthal, D'Milo Hallerberg, ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4iiKcuv_is
at 27:40 mark. explanation 16 bit vs 14 bit benefit.
and yes, multiple exposure technique works really well in uncontrolled light situation.. most of time, but not always...(wild life, fast changing lighting conditions, moving clouds, other fast moving subjects in the frame, etc..)
all I said is: 16 bit colour per channel and improved camera dynamic range at base ISO will be great to have .. yes, beneficial but not a requirement. I shoot with 6D and can do just fine with it. That said, I would love to shoot with Mamiya 645 instead. I cannot afford the camera though ...
https://www.sigmaphoto.com/photo-galleries/photosharesm/roof-top-parking-crown-casino-melbourne-au
GMCPhotographics said:
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